Um, Why Was "If you believe in God, You're a retard" Locked?

[shernajwine]

But god created everything which would include the ( or the concept of the) absense of something, so...?

How do you create the absence of something? I mean darkness is the inevitable result of no light. It's not created....I'm not understanding your logic here, so I don't know how to answer that.

I'm trying to understand the mindset of someone who admits they don't understand a metaphysical beings purpose due to the limitations of nature but then says they understand at the same time

There are certain things that are easy to understand, there are certain things I only partially understand, and there are things that will always be outside of my ability to understand. Every Christian is in the same boat but at different levels of understanding within the two available areas that our human logic allows us to understand God.

And your wording is very amusing. I don't have blind faith in a cheating deity. I don't have blind faith in my sovereign Creator.

Blind faith is when you have been given no rational or tangible reason to trust somebody or trust in something, and yet you do anyway. You simply decide to trust, even though you've seen no evidence to lead you to that decision.

That statement does not represent my faith in God. I have enough evidence to reasonably apply faith towards the aspects of God that I don't know.

hell just seems to be the viable option for the religious at getting back at someone that gets away with something deemed evil

Well, I really don't want to get into another hell argument but I will reiterate here that hell is not for bad (evil) people. Everyone is bad according to God's high standards, if that's where bad people (sinners) go, we all go and God will be utterly alone in heaven. No, hell is for people who don't want Him. (I only say this to remind you of my own position on the purpose of hell, not to get off topic with another argument)

[Falconer02]

How do you create the absence of something? I mean darkness is the inevitable result of no light. It's not created....I'm not understanding your logic here, so I don't know how to answer that.

I dunno either! Ask your god! lol My point here is that your god created everything including our concept/definition of nothing. Rationally 'nothing' makes no sense since we cannot grasp it. But seeing how we're dealing with the supernatural, it can make sense since it allows for such things. Do you use the same method in justifying him in reality and say he's not playing with a stacked deck?
Rationally Yahweh (given his traits) is cheating -> using the 'mysterious metaphysical' concept he is not -> therefore he is not cheating due to the placement of irrationality -> The irrational justifies Yahweh

Every Christian is in the same boat but at different levels of understanding within the two available areas that our human logic allows us to understand God.

So your god limited us to understand things. Especially something vital like understanding the nature (or, if you will, 'super nature') of his existence. Why? I would think that's extremely vital information for someone to follow him. If I believed this, I would presume doing this was a fail-safe on his creations. But just relying on faith it seems like someone would rather not think about it and just accept it.

That statement does not represent my faith in God. I have enough evidence to reasonably apply faith towards the aspects of God that I don't know.

Evidence? Let me grab my PKE meter! If I recall your story, does this just fall on emotional struggles you had in your life? I'm just really curious what this means when you use the word 'evidence'.

I only say this to remind you of my own position on the purpose of hell, not to get off topic with another argument

Okay I'll try to remember. Don't quote me on that though. I have the memory of a goldfish.

[shernajwine]

Rationally Yahweh (given his traits) is cheating -> using the 'mysterious metaphysical' concept he is not -> therefore he is not cheating due to the placement of irrationality -> The irrational justifies Yahweh

This statement is only true to someone who thinks the supernatural is irrational. I don't obviously.

So your god limited us to understand things

Yes. To know God in His totality, would be to exist at His level. God has given us abilities "being created in His image" to reason and introspect, to philosophize and theorize about our world and when we do this we come to know certain things about His nature but we are still limited because we are not supernatural beings ourselves. 

I'm just really curious what this means when you use the word 'evidence'.

Wow you really do have a bad memory. The majority of my posts deal with the evidence I believe justifies my belief. And we already know, despite your ability to answer vital questions about biological origins, you disagree with my position.

You wanted to know my reasoning? You have it. If you don't understand me by now..... I don't know what else to tell you. I have repeated myself so many times, I am annoying myself! Conversations circle around in mind numbing frustration until I'm ready to throw my keyboard at people's avatars! 

[Falconer02]

This statement is only true to someone who thinks the supernatural is irrational. I don't obviously.

So allowing for things you don't understand makes you understand with no doubt attached?

His nature but we are still limited because we are not supernatural beings ourselves.

That's the problem-- this was the question pretty much. If you create beings, give them free will, and then say they should play your game or there will be consequences, you'd better have a good detailed presentation as to where you came from, why you made them, etc. etc. A caring deity would explain in detail whereas an evil deity would shroud the explanation in mystery and then judge when they see fit.

I have repeated myself so many times, I am annoying myself!

Nonono... I'll state again that I'm off of the science subject. I recall you having an emotional story that led you to christianity. Unless it was someone else, that is what I was referring to.

[shernajwine]

So allowing for things you don't understand makes you understand with no doubt attached?

Allowing things I don't understand doesn't make me understand. Understanding the things within my human ability to understand them, gives me enough confidence and faith to know the truth without knowing everything.

That's the problem-- this was the question pretty much. If you create beings, give them free will, and then demand they play your game or there will be consequences, you'd better have a good detailed presentation as to where you  came from, why you made them, what the purpose of this entire 'project' is, etc. etc. A caring person would explain whereas an evil person would shroud the explanation in mystery and then judge when they see fit

The bible has 1,189 chapters  31,173 verses and  807,361 words. I would say that's pretty detailed.

I'll state again that I'm off of the science subject. I recall you having an emotional story that led you to christianity. Unless it was someone else, that is what I was referring to

Well, considering that a large portion of my evidence is based on natural things, I am talking about science. And I think that what I have given in my reasons, regarding scientific evidence, is legitimate enough to satisfy the point of your question.

I grew up a Christian, I had doubts a long the way but was never NOT a Christian. I have many personal stories that help validate my faith. But my personal experiences are not up for debate so I will not post them here.

[Falconer02]

Understanding the things within my human ability to understand them, gives me enough confidence and faith to know the truth without knowing everything.

Coming from you I can totally understand this. But like Queen and I have been stating- putting a 100% truth label on something in the realms of the unknown just because there are gaps in anothers concept is faulty reasoning. Especially when your idea runs perfectly in the realms of mythology. But if it's too personal, I won't argue this point anymore.

The bible has 1,189 chapters  31,173 verses and  807,361 words. I would say that's pretty detailed.

Does it produce some much-needed answers to these questions? Or is it just about some vague loving deity thing?

But my personal experiences are not up for debate so I will not post them here.

Got it.

[shernajwine]

Does it produce some much-needed answers to these questions? Or is it just about some vague loving deity thing?

It answers the questions that are important to having a relationship with God and understanding His nature.

[tammyrwa]

Queen of nines says there is no ultimate moral law- yes, there is one in every religion- the moral laws were created obviously to help people from doing harm to their fellow human beings because it is just the right thing to do. Of couse everyone doesn't keep them, but they are there anyway. God crated adam and eve to be fruitful and multiply- that is why they were created to seve God and replenish the earth- two men ca't have a baby, two women can't have a baby- it's as simple as that- that's the way God made -it- it is that way in every species of human and animal, with few exceptions- no one can get around that, no matter how you try to justify gay marriage.

[ButterflyWings]

Tolerance is a beautiful thing...When you love and accept all for all reasons you are free..No god can tell me different..No god saved my friend from a nutcase religious freak who took him..Let me guess he was a sinner so he deserved it??I have heard that filth before..Exact reasons why god is hard for me to except to many contradictions and unexplained actions

[tammyrwa]

Butterflywings, there are extremes in every factor of society- why are you name calling?- religious nutcase- really?- you still don't understand that the goal of Christianity is to spread the good news of Jesus- who loves me, and loves you, whether you ever accept him or not, he died for you too. We as Christians are not here to convert anyone, no one can be converted without a heart change, no matter how hard you try. To try to convince someone that is a better way of living is not wrong- you may say, there is nothing wrong with me, i'm ok- fine, then reject the message, not the messenger, who is only doing what the word they live by says. I will say it again- what are people afraid of?- perhaps that they know in their hearts that the Christian person is right, and they get mad because of it?- what is the harm in trying it?- what have you got to lose?- if you are wrong, you have done nothing but been made the better, but if you are wrong, what if the Christian person is right- are you prepared to take that chance?- think about it.

[queenofnines]

if you are wrong, you have done nothing but been made the better

Oh please.  So you're saying Christians are "better people" than non-Christians?  I can list hundreds of Christians that I'm better than...like Biblegod himself.

but if you are wrong, what if the Christian person is right- are you prepared to take that chance?- think about it.

Are you prepared to take the chance that YOU picked the right god out of thousands?

[jcribb16]

if you are wrong, you have done nothing but been made the better

Oh please.  So you're saying Christians are "better people" than non-Christians?  I can list hundreds of Christians that I'm better than...like Biblegod himself.

but if you are wrong, what if the Christian person is right- are you prepared to take that chance?- think about it.

Are you prepared to take the chance that YOU picked the right god out of thousands?

That's not what she's saying at all, qon, please quit twisting her words.
Are you prepared to take the chance that YOU have not picked any god and pay for it later in regret?  Apparently you are as you've bashed us and reminded us many times about it, and because we are prepared to take and have taken the opportunity given to us to accept God's free gift of salvation. Just can't stand it, can you...

[tammyrwa]

First of all, where am I saying that Christians are better than non Christians?- show me where I said that- or even implied that- I said, in part that I am confident that I have made the better choice-can you say that?- what is the harm in believing in a God who loves you- I can't see the harm- you have nothing to lose- so why not believe?- everyone beileves in something that is greater than themselves. There is no need for anger or hostility- it is and always your your choice where you will spend your final destination- and you will spend it somewhere- but unfortunately, you have already judged Christianity based on faulty premises, without finding out what the real deal is- if you find out what the real deal is, and stop being prejudiced, you might find that you can accept it.

[jordandog]

but unfortunately, you have already judged Christianity based on faulty premises, without finding out what the real deal is

tammyrwa, Since you are fairly new to the D&D section, I just wanted to address the above portion of your post. Quite a few of us, who are now agnostic or atheist, are what you might call 'used to be Christians and/or believers'. We have lived the real deal meaning a religious life with a firm belief in god. For whatever reason(s), we have chosen to move away from that and are now on the other side of it so to speak. I just wanted to make that point known to you because it's not correct if you're thinking or assuming we have always felt and viewed religion and god as we do now. That's it - good to see a new face here.

[ButterflyWings]

Butterflywings, there are extremes in every factor of society- why are you name calling?- religious nutcase- really?- you still don't understand that the goal of Christianity is to spread the good news of Jesus- who loves me, and loves you, whether you ever accept him or not, he died for you too. We as Christians are not here to convert anyone, no one can be converted without a heart change, no matter how hard you try. To try to convince someone that is a better way of living is not wrong- you may say, there is nothing wrong with me, i'm ok- fine, then reject the message, not the messenger, who is only doing what the word they live by says. I will say it again- what are people afraid of?- perhaps that they know in their hearts that the Christian person is right, and they get mad because of it?- what is the harm in trying it?- what have you got to lose?- if you are wrong, you have done nothing but been made the better, but if you are wrong, what if the Christian person is right- are you prepared to take that chance?- think about it.

Sorry was busy ...First he ws a nutcase and was doing gods work getting rid of a demon sinner his words in court not mine..Two he was a preacher of a small church and very radical so I will call this disgusting human what I please he took a human's life over a believe in religion..I have no fears of the after life only excitement of what is the truth..Right I have had christians take money from family members for their church knowing these family members have none..I am prepared for whatever comes because right or wrong I have freedom of choice and I chose to see what comes..