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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: sswilliams2008 on January 05, 2011, 03:00:29 pm
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
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Yes, if you believe in the ludicrousy of the Bible, everyone on this planet is brother and sister. Now wait for the excuses to roll in on how it wasn't a "global" flood, god may have created a separate group of people, god waved his magic wand and made it all okay, etc. All lies.
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I believe it was a global flood. I believe the Bible completely.
Noah and his wife, and their 3 sons (who also had wives) repopulated the world. Cousins married cousins. By the way, Abraham married his half sister Sarah. Among certain races and tribes in the Bible, there was intermarrying because of the preservation of the race and bloodlines. Was God pleased with it? Many times He spoke against it, but man will do what he wants too. It's called free will.
Now qon, tell me I'm lying Ms. atheist. Since you don't believe in God OR the Bible. You have nothing to comment about what, or what isn't in it....right?
Now....what excuse, or lie, do you accuse me (as a Christian) of?
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Yes this is true. This is why we are all technically kin of Jesus. So as Christians we are not only the children of God we are also Jesus' family. It adds to the reality of why Jesus was made a human man, so we could relate and help understand God's Glory. I hope I am making sense to you.
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There is a ton more incest in the bible than just that.
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There is a ton more incest in the bible than just that.
It's also addressed as SIN. Just like fornication, adultery, having sex with animals, homosexuality, etc.....what is the point your trying to make? The Bible just about names every sin known to man. It's spelled out so that there is no question what is displeasing to God. It's like reading the answers to a very important test before you take it.
We as Christians are not liars or making excuses. We've been called just about everything in the book on this forum, and enough is enough. The Bible names the sins of man, and the punishment for those sins. After all, that's what we ALL are going to be judged by......if you believe in the Bible......and I most assuredly do!!!
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Was God pleased with it? Many times He spoke against it, but man will do what he wants too. It's called free will.
It's also addressed as SIN. Just like fornication, adultery, having sex with animals, homosexuality, etc.....
So...you're claiming incest is bad here, that god spoke against it, that is a "sin"...this is why Christians get accused of not being able to critically think; does anyone else not see the logic fail here??
Your god started with just 2 people, did he not? He told them to be fruitful and multiply, in other words, Adam and Eve's kids HAD to have sex with each other at some point, otherwise the human race would have died off. They had no "free will" in this matter. They did not have eHarmony.com, they did not have "plenty of fish in the sea". The choice was, have sex with your family members, or die. And you're trying to say that incest for them was bad when that was their only option?! Logic...fail! God sure is an idiot if he expected them to procreate without incest. Unless y'all believe in the Stork, too!
At no point in the Bible does it say god made a new batch of people... Noah and his sister...er, "wife"...were still direct descendants of Adam and Eve; even if they are many generations removed, it is STILL the same set of DNA we are dealing with for all people that existed back then because they all came from just 2 people. Eve herself came from Adam, so god himself committed incest by taking part of Adam to make Eve. So every act of sex IS incest to this day if you believe the Bible; the "flood" only reinforces that point.
I say it is lying because there are clear examples of what incest is and isn't today. If the Bible were true, we would ALL be related, all hold very similar DNA, it would be impossible to tell who we should have sex with or not to avoid retarded babies, and we would have a lot more birth defects. What you conveniently forget is that the Bible writers knew nothing of DNA, so it made sense to them that 7 billion people could eventually come from just 2 (or 8 if you want to go the Noah route).
Since you don't believe in God OR the Bible. You have nothing to comment about what, or what isn't in it....right?
And you don't have the right to use anything that deals with science, because science is atheistic by default. ::)
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You couldn't be farther from the truth regarding science and the church.
The Catholic Church has always taught that "no real disagreement can exist between the theologian and the scientist provided each keeps within his own limits. . . . If nevertheless there is a disagreement . . . it should be remembered that the sacred writers, or more truly ‘the Spirit of God who spoke through them, did not wish to teach men such truths (as the inner structure of visible objects) which do not help anyone to salvation’; and that, for this reason, rather than trying to provide a scientific exposition of nature, they sometimes describe and treat these matters either in a somewhat figurative language or as the common manner of speech those times required, and indeed still requires nowadays in everyday life, even amongst most learned people" (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus 18).
As the Catechism puts it, "Methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things the of the faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are" (CCC 159). The Catholic Church has no fear of science or scientific discovery.
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Was God pleased with it? Many times He spoke against it, but man will do what he wants too. It's called free will.
It's also addressed as SIN. Just like fornication, adultery, having sex with animals, homosexuality, etc.....
So...you're claiming incest is bad here, that god spoke against it, that is a "sin"...this is why Christians get accused of not being able to critically think; does anyone else not see the logic fail here??
Your god started with just 2 people, did he not? He told them to be fruitful and multiply, in other words, Adam and Eve's kids HAD to have sex with each other at some point, otherwise the human race would have died off. They had no "free will" in this matter. They did not have eHarmony.com, they did not have "plenty of fish in the sea". The choice was, have sex with your family members, or die. And you're trying to say that incest for them was bad when that was their only option?! Logic...fail! God sure is an idiot if he expected them to procreate without incest. Unless y'all believe in the Stork, too!
At no point in the Bible does it say god made a new batch of people... Noah and his sister...er, "wife"...were still direct descendants of Adam and Eve; even if they are many generations removed, it is STILL the same set of DNA we are dealing with for all people that existed back then because they all came from just 2 people. Eve herself came from Adam, so god himself committed incest by taking part of Adam to make Eve. So every act of sex IS incest to this day if you believe the Bible; the "flood" only reinforces that point.
I say it is lying because there are clear examples of what incest is and isn't today. If the Bible were true, we would ALL be related, all hold very similar DNA, it would be impossible to tell who we should have sex with or not to avoid retarded babies, and we would have a lot more birth defects. What you conveniently forget is that the Bible writers knew nothing of DNA, so it made sense to them that 7 billion people could eventually come from just 2 (or 8 if you want to go the Noah route).
Since you don't believe in God OR the Bible. You have nothing to comment about what, or what isn't in it....right?
And you don't have the right to use anything that deals with science, because science is atheistic by default. ::)
Where am I using science in my explanation of the Bible? However....science is not atheistic by default. We have been over this numerous times in other threads, and have proven that even science points to a Creator (Case for a Creator, etc.). Anybody can go back and read all your "rants" in previous threads, and how Sherene put you in your place more than once proving that science points to a Creator (God).
Quite making snide remarks about my intelligence. Same old same old with you qon. For someone who doesn't believe in God OR the Bible, you sure like to refer to it all the time, but only if you can twist it around, and use it against any Christian like you have done numerous times before.
No the Bible doesn't say a lot about what and how there were people other than Adam and Eve. It also doesn't say a lot about that dispensation period, except that sin got introduced to humanity through Adam and Eve. It also doesn't spell out why a blood sacrifice from Abel was acceptable practice, and Cain's was rejected because it wasn't done according to God's specifications which we don't know about, because the Bible doesn't say. They lived under a different set of rules about worshipping/sacrifice to God and acceptable practice in their dispensation. I believe that God made more people, but I really don't know. However, there was NO law given (for all humanity) in the dispensation of Adam and Eve, but we are told of the entrance of sin in man. It was a different time with a different social acceptance and structure. Man did that which was right in his own eyes (Bible).
You take scripture and dispensations out of context, and apply them to what we live under today. Today we have the law, AND Grace. Adam and Eve didn't have what we have today, Noah didn't have it either. However, men cried out to God the best they knew how. Moses was the beginning of the actual Law of God handed down to man. The "Grace" and "Church" came so much further after.......when Jesus was crucified and rose again. Every person will be judged by what they know, and the law they lived under. The dispensation of "Grace" had not happened yet, and there was no pure sacrifice for sin (no remission) yet. Jesus was the supreme sacrifice, and no more were the sins "rolled ahead" for another year, but remitted for good. Different dispensation and fulfillment of the Law....Just like Adam and Eve.
I don't mind talking with people about the Word of God, but your different qon. You were once a Christian, or professed to being one, then turned your back on God. For that I have no desire to talk with you about anything pertaining to my Lord, as you like to spew your verbal filth on what we Christians hold dear. No more do you get any explanation from me about anything Biblical. Go be just a miserable as you want in your own verbal filth. I want nothing to do with you. Since you live under the dispensation of law and grace.....get ready!! Your in for a big surprise! LOL
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science is not atheistic by default.
Yes it is. Science explains how numerous workings in our universe came to be naturally...no invisible, magical sky daddy required.
Science relies on testable evidence, which is the exact opposite of FAITH. Science never inserts a nonexistent fairytale as a precursor to whatever it is explaining. Where demons and devils were once said to be the cause for disease, science came in and showed how that's all bullsh*t. The Bible writers thought the earth was flat, and science, mathematics, and geography proved that wrong once again. The Bible says you can drink poison and not die. Science (reality) has a different story. I could go on and on...
have proven that even science points to a Creator (Case for a Creator, etc.).
Quit with the slimy terminology. You don't mean A creator, you mean YOUR creator...Yahweh, the Christian myth. The one you had pretty much no choice in adopting being that you're American. Sorry to break it to you, but you're wrong. If science pointed to something supernatural, science as we know it wouldn't exist. This is because the universe is governed by strict physical laws with no room for randomness or magical god like hocus pocus. If you spent more time in school rather than church, you'd know this.
Funny how you Christians want to have it both ways. I get two different stories from them: You can prove god using science! and You *can't* prove god using science because he is not of this world!! lol
You take scripture and dispensations out of context, and apply them to what we live under today. Today we have the law, AND Grace. Adam and Eve didn't have what we have today, Noah didn't have it either. However, men cried out to God the best they knew how. Moses was the beginning of the actual Law of God handed down to man. The "Grace" and "Church" came so much further after.......when Jesus was crucified and rose again. Every person will be judged by what they know, and the law they lived under. The dispensation of "Grace" had not happened yet, and there was no pure sacrifice for sin (no remission) yet. Jesus was the supreme sacrifice, and no more were the sins "rolled ahead" for another year, but remitted for good. Different dispensation and fulfillment of the Law....Just like Adam and Eve.
Zzzz...excuses...psychobabble cult speak...
I don't mind talking with people about the Word of God, but your different qon. You were once a Christian, or professed to being one, then turned your back on God. For that I have no desire to talk with you about anything pertaining to my Lord
And yet you keep doing it. Why should I think you'll ever stop? You still haven't learned how to correctly use "you're"; you still haven't learned not to be tempted to respond to anything I say (especially when all I was doing was making a quick poke of fun in my original message here)...yep, I'd say you're about on par from what I can expect from a brainwashed believer.
No more do you get any explanation from me about anything Biblical.
Uh huh. How many times have you said this now? It's okay; people who subscribe to delusions aren't known for their credibility.
get ready!! Your in for a big surprise! LOL
Oh no! Daddy's gonna burn me forever in the bad place because Annella says so! lol
Your attempts at threats are just plain sad to anyone who lives in reality.
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that's a good question i never that about that. i guess there could have been. but where ever they landed after the flood, did it mention about what was there?
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I believe it was a global flood. I believe the Bible completely.
Noah and his wife, and their 3 sons (who also had wives) repopulated the world. Cousins married cousins. By the way, Abraham married his half sister Sarah. Among certain races and tribes in the Bible, there was intermarrying because of the preservation of the race and bloodlines. Was God pleased with it? Many times He spoke against it, but man will do what he wants too. It's called free will.
Now qon, tell me I'm lying Ms. atheist. Since you don't believe in God OR the Bible. You have nothing to comment about what, or what isn't in it....right?
Now....what excuse, or lie, do you accuse me (as a Christian) of?
I love to read your posts so I can have a good laugh!
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I was wondering when you would show up cuppycake. You never miss an opportunity to verbally "dump' on Christians just like qon.
This is "Off Topic", not "Debate and Discuss", where both of you usually verbally spew your anti Christian rhetoric. Since I no longer go in there, you have made it a point to follow me around this forum just to let out your hate and discontent. That's pretty pathetic. You won't change my mind, and you know it, so your postings are nothing more than spitefulness and attacks. What miserable lives you must lead. Sad :(
I will not debate God or His Word with those who have no belief in either. However, answering a fool in their folly is something the Bible says a Christian has a right to do at various times. Who's the deluded? Just keep on burying your head in the sand and say to yourself over and over....there is no God, there is no God. Guess what?
EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS............LOL
Follow me around all you want as I know you have nothing better to do. However, I do.....bye
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you have made it a point to follow me around this forum just to let out your hate and discontent.
Wow, get over yourself. You must not know how to read. I posted before you on this topic; thus, not "following you around". The post that followed me (yours) was ignorant and incorrect, so I addressed it. I could care less where the ignorance came from. You're not special.
If anyone is following anyone around, I'd think it is you to me, since you've frequently said, "Anyone can read your posts and see your rants", implying that you check up on me. Fun fact for ya: I have never bothered to look at your old posts. I reserve that for people who actually have something interesting to say.
What miserable lives you must lead. Sad :(
It's been my experience that the people who try to insult strangers with this sort of unfounded judgement are projecting based on their own lives. Not to toot my own horn, but I actually live a life that many people would be jealous of. While you're stuck at home alone being a dried out and resentful old woman, I'm out seeing and experiencing more in 5 years than most people see and do in their whole lives.
Follow me around all you want as I know you have nothing better to do. However, I do.....
Again, not very observant. For the past few months, I've pretty much stuck to my minimum posts and GTFO. Also, let's compare our stats here:
Name: queenofnines
Posts: 1047 (2.900 per day)
Position: Silver Member
Date Registered: January 12, 2010, 06:48:22 pm
Name: Annella
Posts: 1317 (6.271 per day)
Position: Silver Member
Date Registered: June 12, 2010, 05:42:18 pm
The profiles don't lie. Who has better things to do now? lol
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For one thing, your a liar, and a false accuser of the redeemed (Bible).
Another....you know nothing about my life as an Ordained Evangelist/Minister. Stay at home? LOL I've 2 International trips approved for this year, not counting numerous other activities. I'm happy to be working in my Father's vineyard, and will continue to do so until he comes for me or I drop dead. My church pays my support while on the field, but making a little extra on FC doesn't hurt in this economy.
I said anyone can read your rants because I was once in "Debate and Discuss" where that's all you did (and still do). I left that part of the forum, and no longer post there. I have other Christian friends that have been on this forum as much (or more) than I have. We use it mostly as an outreach tool. Anyone can look back on my postings and see this as truth. Your attempt to "color" reliable facts is a waste of time. People aren't stupid qon, do you honestly think twisting the truth won't be found out?
As far as being resentful? Um, I believe being resentful of any Christian that loves God and follows His ways, is where you fit in. You have such hate and animosity for Christians. That also is in every post you make. And yes, I am special. I've been washed in the Blood of Jesus and my sins have all been done away with. My Father is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I'm His daughter, and belong to Him. That makes me special in His Sight.
On the flip side, you better get that putrid filthy spirit under control or it's going to drag you straight to hell. Just sayin.........
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And who are you to think you the moral authority to think one should be condemned to Hell? You should love the sinner and hate the sin and should always try to preach the Gospels; but no where in that gives you the authority nor responsibility to declare where someones soul is to spend eternity. That is His power and His alone.
Queenofnines; as I posted earlier, science and christinaity can co-exist for the reason alone that I can have faith in knowing that God allowed for things to happen. You make a point about Adam and Eve, but who's to say that in God's all knowing power and ability that he couldn't protect them from the dangers of what incest can have? Is it technically incest, sure, but you're taking out the faith behind it.
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A lot of anger flying around this thread regarding this topic >:(
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I was wondering when you would show up cuppycake. You never miss an opportunity to verbally "dump' on Christians just like qon.
This is "Off Topic", not "Debate and Discuss", where both of you usually verbally spew your anti Christian rhetoric. Since I no longer go in there, you have made it a point to follow me around this forum just to let out your hate and discontent. That's pretty pathetic. You won't change my mind, and you know it, so your postings are nothing more than spitefulness and attacks. What miserable lives you must lead. Sad :(
I will not debate God or His Word with those who have no belief in either. However, answering a fool in their folly is something the Bible says a Christian has a right to do at various times. Who's the deluded? Just keep on burying your head in the sand and say to yourself over and over....there is no God, there is no God. Guess what?
EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS............LOL
Follow me around all you want as I know you have nothing better to do. However, I do.....bye
You really are quite funny and such a joke! I don't have say anything you make a fool of your self just fine!
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And who are you to think you the moral authority to think one should be condemned to Hell? You should love the sinner and hate the sin and should always try to preach the Gospels; but no where in that gives you the authority nor responsibility to declare where someones soul is to spend eternity. That is His power and His alone.
Queenofnines; as I posted earlier, science and christinaity can co-exist for the reason alone that I can have faith in knowing that God allowed for things to happen. You make a point about Adam and Eve, but who's to say that in God's all knowing power and ability that he couldn't protect them from the dangers of what incest can have? Is it technically incest, sure, but you're taking out the faith behind it.
Um mattymat, as far as moral authority....uh yes, I do have every right to denounce reprobate sin (Ministry) when it's paramount, and to warn of it's consequences. The Bible clearly says that if certain things are said or done.....there is nothing but hell to look forward to. I will no longer give place to the enemy and his foolish rantings against God and His people. You need to go back and read all qon's previous posts (mine also) before reprimanding anyone. As far as loving the sinner, I do....but not to a confessed reprobate railing against God and His redeemed. There is a limit. Even with God. She has confessed to being a Christian once and then turning her back on God because he doesn't exist and He's a liar. That kind of talk will land you in hell......that's Bible! I do preach the gospel.....the WHOLE gospel. I'm not some mamby pamby preacher. Never have been, and never will be. Behold the goodness and the severity of God. God is love, but He also warns those against blasphemy and it's end results.
Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, thou shalt surely die: and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet, if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou has delivered thy soul. Again, when a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also, thou has delivered they soul. Ezekiel 3:17-21
You really are quite funny and such a joke! I don't have say anything you make a fool of your self just fine!
Really cuppycake?? The Bible says: "The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good". Psalms 14:1
And: "The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God, Corrupt are they and have done abominable iniquity: There is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1
So Biblically who's the fool? However, I'd rather be a fanatic for Jesus, than a champion for the devil.....lol
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
You seem to be forgetting that Christians are NOT the only ones targeted. Everyone is a target, as we are all different and have varying thoughts/views/beliefs/opinions etc. Maybe here, on FC, Christians seem to be targeted but Christians in turn do their fair share of the targeting. Which you have done simply by quoting my post and starting your response with "Oh that's all well and good, if it works." And who are you to pick me out and direct your comments towards when I said nothing to offend Christians, or any other faith. Did I call you names? No. Did I verbally bash Christianity? No. Did I talk down on any one? No. Did I bad mouth any one's religion? No. And No, I didn't do anything to 'start trouble'. So before you go around speaking of people 'targeting' you for being a Christian, check your own actions and be sure that you are not a hypocrite in the fact that you are doing just as you claim to be a victim of... Targeting people who are not as you.
And lastly, I never claimed to not be a Christian and I never claimed to be a Christian.
And by the way (this is for any and all, not just you) Any one can claim to be a Christian. But going to church and acting Godly on Sundays (and for some, Wednesdays as well) doesn't make you a Christian any more than quacking makes you a duck.
Take this for what you will, as I can only imagine how wrong you will receive my comments. Have a nice day. (:
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Love the sinner hate the sin. Love one as you love yourself.
Pointing out the splinter in ones eye without noticing the log in your own.
Again, you do not have the moral authority to condemn one to hell.
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I heard once that nobody is more distantly related from one another than fiftieth cousins or so. I don't remember where I heard this though so I don't know if it's actually true or not.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
When lot's wife was made into salt when she glanced at Sodom and Gomorah, Lot was left with his 2 daughters, the two daughters said "let us lay with our father to populate the world again"..
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And who are you to think you the moral authority to think one should be condemned to Hell? You should love the sinner and hate the sin and should always try to preach the Gospels; but no where in that gives you the authority nor responsibility to declare where someones soul is to spend eternity. That is His power and His alone.
Queenofnines; as I posted earlier, science and christinaity can co-exist for the reason alone that I can have faith in knowing that God allowed for things to happen. You make a point about Adam and Eve, but who's to say that in God's all knowing power and ability that he couldn't protect them from the dangers of what incest can have? Is it technically incest, sure, but you're taking out the faith behind it.
Um mattymat, as far as moral authority....uh yes, I do have every right to denounce reprobate sin (Ministry) when it's paramount, and to warn of it's consequences. The Bible clearly says that if certain things are said or done.....there is nothing but hell to look forward to. I will no longer give place to the enemy and his foolish rantings against God and His people. You need to go back and read all qon's previous posts (mine also) before reprimanding anyone. As far as loving the sinner, I do....but not to a confessed reprobate railing against God and His redeemed. There is a limit. Even with God. She has confessed to being a Christian once and then turning her back on God because he doesn't exist and He's a liar. That kind of talk will land you in hell......that's Bible! I do preach the gospel.....the WHOLE gospel. I'm not some mamby pamby preacher. Never have been, and never will be. Behold the goodness and the severity of God. God is love, but He also warns those against blasphemy and it's end results.
Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, thou shalt surely die: and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet, if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou has delivered thy soul. Again, when a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also, thou has delivered they soul. Ezekiel 3:17-21
You really are quite funny and such a joke! I don't have say anything you make a fool of your self just fine!
Really cuppycake?? The Bible says: "The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good". Psalms 14:1
And: "The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God, Corrupt are they and have done abominable iniquity: There is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1
So Biblically who's the fool? However, I'd rather be a fanatic for Jesus, than a champion for the devil.....lol
As if I care what the bible says lmao! "god" is just dog spelled backwards as far as I am concerned. And your bible babble is just a waste of time.
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At no point in the Bible does it say god made a new batch of people... Noah and his sister...er, "wife"...were still direct descendants of Adam and Eve; even if they are many generations removed, it is STILL the same set of DNA we are dealing with for all people that existed back then because they all came from just 2 people. Eve herself came from Adam, so god himself committed incest by taking part of Adam to make Eve. So every act of sex IS incest to this day if you believe the Bible; the "flood" only reinforces that point.
Okay in the Book of Generations depending on what bible you ar reading it does mention that there are other people besides Adam and Eve. Then he made a garden that pertty much was like ruling everything he had Adam name the animals and the Woman.
Another questions is that if we are all related why is it so hard to find the same blood type and cells for transfusions and organ repair?
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
You seem to be forgetting that Christians are NOT the only ones targeted. Everyone is a target, as we are all different and have varying thoughts/views/beliefs/opinions etc. Maybe here, on FC, Christians seem to be targeted but Christians in turn do their fair share of the targeting. Which you have done simply by quoting my post and starting your response with "Oh that's all well and good, if it works." And who are you to pick me out and direct your comments towards when I said nothing to offend Christians, or any other faith. Did I call you names? No. Did I verbally bash Christianity? No. Did I talk down on any one? No. Did I bad mouth any one's religion? No. And No, I didn't do anything to 'start trouble'. So before you go around speaking of people 'targeting' you for being a Christian, check your own actions and be sure that you are not a hypocrite in the fact that you are doing just as you claim to be a victim of... Targeting people who are not as you.
And lastly, I never claimed to not be a Christian and I never claimed to be a Christian.
And by the way (this is for any and all, not just you) Any one can claim to be a Christian. But going to church and acting Godly on Sundays (and for some, Wednesdays as well) doesn't make you a Christian any more than quacking makes you a duck.
Take this for what you will, as I can only imagine how wrong you will receive my comments. Have a nice day. (:
For one thing shadetree, you are wrong. I was not targeting you for anything. It was just an explanation (for whomever is reading this thread), and was not meant to single you (or your post) out for anything. If you took it as a personal affront, then I'm sorry. It was not meant to be. I live my Christianity every second of my life. Sundays and Weds., are just another day to me, except it's a day to "gather" with others of like precious faith as a family.
Accept my apology as nothing was aimed at you personal or otherwise. However, you do not have many posts and that tells me that you must be fairly new, or you don't frequent the forum often. cuppycake and qon (among others) are notorious for singling out Christians and flaming them on this forum. Please take my suggestion and go read all of our posts in "Debate and Discuss".....unless they have deleted their posts.
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that's a good question i never that about that. i guess there could have been. but where ever they landed after the flood, did it mention about what was there?
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No they didn't mention where they landed but it shouldn't matter if it was indeed a global flood and only left Noah, family, and animals should it?
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A lot of anger flying around this thread regarding this topic >:(
Yes. I just had simple questions, I didn't want all this anger. :-[ But that is what happens eventually when there is a forum of some kind. :(
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Love the sinner hate the sin. Love one as you love yourself.
Pointing out the splinter in ones eye without noticing the log in your own.
Again, you do not have the moral authority to condemn one to hell.
I feel no one has the right to condemn anyone to hell. Precher, Minister, Pope. Any human has no right to condemn! :peace:
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
When lot's wife was made into salt when she glanced at Sodom and Gomorah, Lot was left with his 2 daughters, the two daughters said "let us lay with our father to populate the world again"..
So very true! I remember that recently, thank you for a good fair answer to my curiosity!
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As if I care what the bible says lmao! "god" is just dog spelled backwards as far as I am concerned. And your bible babble is just a waste of time.
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Excuse me? I feel you have it wrong, if you ask for my opinion, which I know your not! From all of the "dogs" I have grown up with and had bless my life "doG" is just God spelt backwards! Thank you for your comment but I just have a different view! :angel11:
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At no point in the Bible does it say god made a new batch of people... Noah and his sister...er, "wife"...were still direct descendants of Adam and Eve; even if they are many generations removed, it is STILL the same set of DNA we are dealing with for all people that existed back then because they all came from just 2 people. Eve herself came from Adam, so god himself committed incest by taking part of Adam to make Eve. So every act of sex IS incest to this day if you believe the Bible; the "flood" only reinforces that point.
Okay in the Book of Generations depending on what bible you ar reading it does mention that there are other people besides Adam and Eve. Then he made a garden that pertty much was like ruling everything he had Adam name the animals and the Woman.
Another questions is that if we are all related why is it so hard to find the same blood type and cells for transfusions and organ repair?
Like I said in my previous post. No it doesn't specifically (Bible) say he made other people but this scripture makes you wonder:
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them, and God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea.....etc. etc. Read Genesis 1:26-31
Now...just these few scriptures bring up various questions:
1. Who was God taking to about making man in His own image, since the Bible clearly tells that "no man hath seen God" at any time?
2. Was He talking about Adam and Eve or.....other people he created? Remember, Adam and Eve lived in a garden for awhile.
3. Replenish? What was needing replenishing? The Bible doesn't say.
When God gave the "Law" to Moses on Mount Carmel, he denounced incest as sin. Since God cannot lie (as the Bible states, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever), I can't see him calling sin okay one time, and then turning it around and calling it wrong. God would have provided a way for men not to sin. However, man has sinned no matter what, because it is his own choice (will) to do right or wrong. God gives man free will.
God was actually talking to the angels (whom He made), and was signifying (pointing to) His own body in the future tense (the body of Jesus). Which was actually.....his own body that He made to walk around earth in.
God always spoke in past, present, and future tense's because He is not bound by time at all.....we are. There are no contradictions or inconsistencies in the Bible if you take, and study it as a whole. In fact, it reveals itself because scripture interprets scripture. It's a perfect puzzle that falls together the more you study it.
Since Moses wrote the first books of the Bible, and we know that the "Law" started with him, then we know that God talked with him about the beginning. Until Moses, there was no "Law" actually given, and/or God manifested himself to man before the flood? We don't know......just like I said before, a blood sacrifice was acceptable to God from Abel, but Cain's "food" sacrifice was not. Why? There had to be something saying such. However, the Bible doesn't say.
I believe every dispensation has it's own laws and practices, and we will be judged by what we know and live in our dispensation. We don't believe in sacrificing animals anymore because we live in the dispensation of "Grace" and "Redemption". Jesus died for our sins (God with us), and the practice of sacrificing animals does not apply anymore. No more than....say.....the dispensation that Adam and Eve lived. It doesn't concern us how we live today, but only what Biblical law applies to us now.
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Love the sinner hate the sin. Love one as you love yourself.
Pointing out the splinter in ones eye without noticing the log in your own.
Again, you do not have the moral authority to condemn one to hell.
I feel no one has the right to condemn anyone to hell. Precher, Minister, Pope. Any human has no right to condemn! :peace:
I believe my words were: If you don't get control of that putrid filthy spirit, it's going to drag you straight to hell.
If you don't believe the words and teachings in the Bible, you will go to hell.
If you commit sin and don't repent of it, you will wind up in hell.
If you neglect such a great price that Jesus paid for your sins, and turn your back on Him.....you will be lost to hell.
If you don't believe the Bible or that God exists, then you will die in your sins and be headed for hell.
Since I'm a Minister of the Gospel I will warn anyone who rejects this Salvation and denounces God, or believes His existence, or His gift of sacrifice for our sins, is in danger of hell. Point your finger at me all you want. All your doing is saying that the Bible is not true, when it most assuredly says this very thing. I'm commanded to warn the wicked AND the righteous that there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. I don't condemn anyone, but the Bible does say that by their fruits you will know them. It doesn't take rocket science to know when someone is blasphemous against God.
Jesus didn't white wash anything when he talked with people. He warned them of the consequences of sin. He spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
When lot's wife was made into salt when she glanced at Sodom and Gomorah, Lot was left with his 2 daughters, the two daughters said "let us lay with our father to populate the world again"..
So very true! I remember that recently, thank you for a good fair answer to my curiosity!
That's a good answer to your curiosity? Of course that was incest, but not favorably looked on by God.....it was sin.
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that's a good question i never that about that. i guess there could have been. but where ever they landed after the flood, did it mention about what was there?
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No they didn't mention where they landed but it shouldn't matter if it was indeed a global flood and only left Noah, family, and animals should it?
Yes, the Bible mentions that the Ark landed on Mount Ararat. Which is near Turkey.
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That's a good answer to your curiosity? Of course that was incest, but not favorably looked on by God.....it was sin.
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Hey, I'm a Christian and yes I know that was incest and not favorably looked on by God, but it was an answer to my question that fit the topic. Unlike the offensive remarks you and some other posters have been going back and forth upon. I didn't ask for you to call eachother names, think your better then the other, or damn each other. I just had a simple idea for the forum that I thought would give me a varitey of answers but all pertaining to the topic not demeaning other people.
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What I think of incest? It is sin. What I think of the bible? it is the true. We have to be very careful not to judge or condem. The bible says let God be the judge. As far as what God name say when spelled backwards. I really dont care. Who do? when you know him and have a relationship with him. Lets just look at DEVIL spelled backwards. It spells LIVED. How wonderful that is just what GOD wants us to do LIVE in righteousness. I love the LORD!!!!
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That's a good answer to your curiosity? Of course that was incest, but not favorably looked on by God.....it was sin.
Hey, I'm a Christian and yes I know that was incest and not favorably looked on by God, but it was an answer to my question that fit the topic. Unlike the offensive remarks you and some other posters have been going back and forth upon. I didn't ask for you to call eachother names, think your better then the other, or damn each other. I just had a simple idea for the forum that I thought would give me a varitey of answers but all pertaining to the topic not demeaning other people.
I was trying to give you a Biblical answer to your question. I thought you were referring to incest as being a question of God accepting it (see your first post). If you go back and read the thread, you'll see that I didn't start anything. Since you have no idea of the history of qon, cuppycake, etc., you don't have the whole picture.
If your a Christian, then your questions of such nature should be directed to your spiritual leader like your Pastor or Bible teachers. Not exactly a good subject for a public forum. Why would you want Biblical answers from complete strangers? There are some on here who start threads to lure in Christians, only to "blast" them. I'm not saying this is your practice so don't take this personally. Since you are new, you have no idea what has gone on (mostly Debate and Discuss) against Christians.
I'll make a note not to answer any more of your Biblical questions. It was an honest mistake. I try to help those who don't quite understand certain aspects of the Word, and give them a clearer outlook on what it says. I misunderstood that was what you were seeking. There was nothing to alert me that you were a Christian until you made the declaration.
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That's a good answer to your curiosity? Of course that was incest, but not favorably looked on by God.....it was sin.
Hey, I'm a Christian and yes I know that was incest and not favorably looked on by God, but it was an answer to my question that fit the topic. Unlike the offensive remarks you and some other posters have been going back and forth upon. I didn't ask for you to call eachother names, think your better then the other, or damn each other. I just had a simple idea for the forum that I thought would give me a varitey of answers but all pertaining to the topic not demeaning other people.
I was trying to give you a Biblical answer to your question. I thought you were referring to incest as being a question of God accepting it (see your first post). If you go back and read the thread, you'll see that I didn't start anything. Since you have no idea of the history of qon, cuppycake, etc., you don't have the whole picture.
If your a Christian, then your questions of such nature should be directed to your spiritual leader like your Pastor or Bible teachers. Not exactly a good subject for a public forum. Why would you want Biblical answers from complete strangers? There are some on here who start threads to lure in Christians, only to "blast" them. I'm not saying this is your practice so don't take this personally. Since you are new, you have no idea what has gone on (mostly Debate and Discuss) against Christians.
I'll make a note not to answer any more of your Biblical questions. It was an honest mistake. I try to help those who don't quite understand certain aspects of the Word, and give them a clearer outlook on what it says. I misunderstood that was what you were seeking. There was nothing to alert me that you were a Christian until you made the declaration.
I didn't mean to offend you at all. I just posted the question because I have been discussing it with a friend and I just wanted to see other peoples views. I hope you can forgive me! I am not one to purposely tear people down.
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I didn't mean to offend you at all. I just posted the question because I have been discussing it with a friend and I just wanted to see other peoples views. I hope you can forgive me! I am not one to purposely tear people down.
You didn't offend me, but you have no idea of the history of some of the posters in this forum. You can click on a persons user name, and it will bring up all their posts. They are pretty consistent with their abuse of Christians and what we stand for. What you read on this thread is nothing how nasty they can get....especially qon. Educate yourself on who/what you are actually dealing with.
Spiritual questions will pique the Christians interest (on this forum) thinking someone needs answers to something Biblical. It will also attract the enemy to cause discord and discontent among those trying to help. Your a Christian, I'm not telling you anything new.
I'm not your "timid" Christian Preacher, my stance is no nonsense, and bold. I Love the lost, and will do everything in my power to lead them to Christ. However, I have little time for mockers, false accusers, etc. We would no more allow someone to come in during a message and start calling us names etc. They would be asked to leave....if not.....they would be thrown out. Of course a public forum is different....but they need to know that I won't put up with their attempt of discord and meddling.
Time is running out, and we must grab as many as we can and get them on the "life" side. However, there are those that have made the choice to reject it and made it known in plain terms. They have made it their job to disrupt anything pertaining to God on this forum. While I pray they see the "light", I have no time or patience for those who are blasphemous against God. I have to work while it is day, because it's getting dark quick!
Forgive me, as I offended you by mistake. Keep the Faith, and God bless!
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May God Bless everyone! Even those whom may not believe. I have some odds with the faith but I have never given up on it! I would like someone to explain the answer to my original question in more detail as I am still confused. ???
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May God Bless everyone! Even those whom may not believe. I have some odds with the faith but I have never given up on it! I would like someone to explain the answer to my original question in more detail as I am still confused. ???
Maybe I missed the question or what answer you actually needed. Thought I answered in depth, but maybe I didn't understand the question. If you could detail it in another way, I will try to help. Sometimes there are no answers to things that happened before our dispensation of time because it's not there (in detail) and doesn't concern us, and/or we would not be judged as living in that dispensation. However, the Bible does "flow" together. The more you study it, the more it becomes definite Truth.
There are Concordance's that interpret in Hebrew and Greek (Old Testament-Hebrew, New Testament-Greek). Sometimes a translation of a word or sentence can give a whole different outlook to meaning in scripture. There are also Commentaries that help shine insight into the customs of the day and age. I'll try my best to answer if you can detail what exactly your seeking.
Being at odds is okay, but not to disputings of the Word (which I don't believe you are doing). The fact that you have not given up on it, tells me that God still is "cementing" you, and loves you very much. So you need some clarification about something...okay.
God blesses the sinner, even though they are not aware of it.
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
You seem to be forgetting that Christians are NOT the only ones targeted. Everyone is a target, as we are all different and have varying thoughts/views/beliefs/opinions etc. Maybe here, on FC, Christians seem to be targeted but Christians in turn do their fair share of the targeting. Which you have done simply by quoting my post and starting your response with "Oh that's all well and good, if it works." And who are you to pick me out and direct your comments towards when I said nothing to offend Christians, or any other faith. Did I call you names? No. Did I verbally bash Christianity? No. Did I talk down on any one? No. Did I bad mouth any one's religion? No. And No, I didn't do anything to 'start trouble'. So before you go around speaking of people 'targeting' you for being a Christian, check your own actions and be sure that you are not a hypocrite in the fact that you are doing just as you claim to be a victim of... Targeting people who are not as you.
And lastly, I never claimed to not be a Christian and I never claimed to be a Christian.
And by the way (this is for any and all, not just you) Any one can claim to be a Christian. But going to church and acting Godly on Sundays (and for some, Wednesdays as well) doesn't make you a Christian any more than quacking makes you a duck.
Take this for what you will, as I can only imagine how wrong you will receive my comments. Have a nice day. (:
For one thing shadetree, you are wrong. I was not targeting you for anything. It was just an explanation (for whomever is reading this thread), and was not meant to single you (or your post) out for anything. If you took it as a personal affront, then I'm sorry. It was not meant to be. I live my Christianity every second of my life. Sundays and Weds., are just another day to me, except it's a day to "gather" with others of like precious faith as a family.
Accept my apology as nothing was aimed at you personal or otherwise. However, you do not have many posts and that tells me that you must be fairly new, or you don't frequent the forum often. cuppycake and qon (among others) are notorious for singling out Christians and flaming them on this forum. Please take my suggestion and go read all of our posts in "Debate and Discuss".....unless they have deleted their posts.
And that's where you would be incorrect. You did target me, (whether intentionally or not) as my post didn't need any further comments or explanations. Nor did it pertain to your previous experiences with others on the forum, in the past. It was plain and simple, just a read (or don't read) and move on, which you did not. That was all I meant by that.
And what difference does it make how many posts I have? It doesn't.
As far as Queenofnines and Cuppycake goes, I've not any issues with them. They state their opinions, just as you or I do. Which, we all have a right to do. If you don't like what they say, then ignore them. By acknowledging them, you only encourage them and thus bring the "hate" upon yourself.
You should exercise more caution in your words, your anger is showing (and I'm not referring to our comments to each other). Which, there is no need for.
Also, I've no desire to read what they have posted in the past, as it's in the past and has no effect on me. Again, it's their opinions, which I respect as I do yours. If you cannot do the same, then I fear you may be slipping. Are you not, as a Christian, taught to tolerate those whose views differ from your own? So you disagree with them, fine. Let it be and instead turn your focus & attention to those whom you have positive interactions with.
Why must you continually bring up the past? Move on, let it go, and don't let it bother you because otherwise, you only give them the satisfaction of getting under your skin. Which only brings a darkness upon you.
Lastly, I accept your apology, and I in turn hope that you don't take any of this the wrong way as it's not meant to offend or attack you in any way. Have a great day Annella. Be well, take care, and exercise caution. (:
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
You seem to be forgetting that Christians are NOT the only ones targeted. Everyone is a target, as we are all different and have varying thoughts/views/beliefs/opinions etc. Maybe here, on FC, Christians seem to be targeted but Christians in turn do their fair share of the targeting. Which you have done simply by quoting my post and starting your response with "Oh that's all well and good, if it works." And who are you to pick me out and direct your comments towards when I said nothing to offend Christians, or any other faith. Did I call you names? No. Did I verbally bash Christianity? No. Did I talk down on any one? No. Did I bad mouth any one's religion? No. And No, I didn't do anything to 'start trouble'. So before you go around speaking of people 'targeting' you for being a Christian, check your own actions and be sure that you are not a hypocrite in the fact that you are doing just as you claim to be a victim of... Targeting people who are not as you.
And lastly, I never claimed to not be a Christian and I never claimed to be a Christian.
And by the way (this is for any and all, not just you) Any one can claim to be a Christian. But going to church and acting Godly on Sundays (and for some, Wednesdays as well) doesn't make you a Christian any more than quacking makes you a duck.
Take this for what you will, as I can only imagine how wrong you will receive my comments. Have a nice day. (:
For one thing shadetree, you are wrong. I was not targeting you for anything. It was just an explanation (for whomever is reading this thread), and was not meant to single you (or your post) out for anything. If you took it as a personal affront, then I'm sorry. It was not meant to be. I live my Christianity every second of my life. Sundays and Weds., are just another day to me, except it's a day to "gather" with others of like precious faith as a family.
Accept my apology as nothing was aimed at you personal or otherwise. However, you do not have many posts and that tells me that you must be fairly new, or you don't frequent the forum often. cuppycake and qon (among others) are notorious for singling out Christians and flaming them on this forum. Please take my suggestion and go read all of our posts in "Debate and Discuss".....unless they have deleted their posts.
And that's where you would be incorrect. You did target me, (whether intentionally or not) as my post didn't need any further comments or explanations. Nor did it pertain to your previous experiences with others on the forum, in the past. It was plain and simple, just a read (or don't read) and move on, which you did not. That was all I meant by that.
And what difference does it make how many posts I have? It doesn't.
As far as Queenofnines and Cuppycake goes, I've not any issues with them. They state their opinions, just as you or I do. Which, we all have a right to do. If you don't like what they say, then ignore them. By acknowledging them, you only encourage them and thus bring the "hate" upon yourself.
You should exercise more caution in your words, your anger is showing (and I'm not referring to our comments to each other). Which, there is no need for.
Also, I've no desire to read what they have posted in the past, as it's in the past and has no effect on me. Again, it's their opinions, which I respect as I do yours. If you cannot do the same, then I fear you may be slipping. Are you not, as a Christian, taught to tolerate those whose views differ from your own? So you disagree with them, fine. Let it be and instead turn your focus & attention to those whom you have positive interactions with.
Why must you continually bring up the past? Move on, let it go, and don't let it bother you because otherwise, you only give them the satisfaction of getting under your skin. Which only brings a darkness upon you.
Lastly, I accept your apology, and I in turn hope that you don't take any of this the wrong way as it's not meant to offend or attack you in any way. Have a great day Annella. Be well, take care, and exercise caution. (:
As far as relating to your posts, I was only pointing out that you were new, and not familiar with a lot that has been going on around this forum. I see that you don't care, only to attack me. As far as anger, it comes through very much in some of the posts you have made to me when all I was doing was trying to help. However, the Bible says you can be angry and sin not. If your angry with me, I'm sorry because no anger was directed at you. There's nothing wrong with righteous anger as long as you do not sin. Everything I wrote, I'll stand behind because it's Truth and Bible. I have no odds against my Faith, nor do I question the validity of God's Word. I do not respect any opinion that is blasphemy and liable against God.
Your wrong. I'm to be tolerant of those who know no better and are ignorant of the Gospel. Not those who know exactly what they are doing when they blaspheme the Lord on purpose. There comes a time when you stand up and make others aware that you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Reproof and rebuke is given to the Ministry (Bible).
However, I can see that you are offended so I will steer clear of any other comments you may make that are/or not questions in the future.
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sswillams2008, I'm doing some study, and coming up with some answers pertaining to your questions. If you would like to hear them, let me know.
Some of what I know and/or found out:
People lived for hundreds of years back then. Noah was 600 years old when the flood happened. Noah only had the 3 sons, Shem, Ham, Japheth. He had no more children.
The whole earth was populated by the 3 sons and their wives. We're talking hundreds of years of kids. The generations are in Chapter 10 of Genesis and how they were divided in the whole earth.
Marrying cousins was an acceptable practice back then to preserve the blood lines within the race. In Leviticus (18th Chapter), the "Law" given to Moses on Mount Carmel did not mention anything negative about marrying cousins (which I found particularly interesting because I'd never seen that before).
Hope I've helped you a little.
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There is a ton more incest in the bible than just that.
It's also addressed as SIN. Just like fornication, adultery, having sex with animals, homosexuality, etc.....what is the point your trying to make? The Bible just about names every sin known to man. It's spelled out so that there is no question what is displeasing to God. It's like reading the answers to a very important test before you take it.
We as Christians are not liars or making excuses. We've been called just about everything in the book on this forum, and enough is enough. The Bible names the sins of man, and the punishment for those sins. After all, that's what we ALL are going to be judged by......if you believe in the Bible......and I most assuredly do!!!
I believe I owe JessieKateRose an apology for my answer above to her. It should have been worded better. I'm afraid my response to qon's retort how everything about the Bible and Christians were lies....spilled over into the response to JessieKateRose. I went back and read through the whole thread. I'm very sorry JessieKateRose for responding like I did. You were just making a point.
You are right. There are many cases of Incest in the Bible. I think things are recorded for us to make sure we know the negative influences such sins had.
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Personally, I think incest is repulsive. You aren't supposed to be intimate in those ways with family members. However, I think it's only considered incest up to a certain point in family ties. Either way, I won't be marrying my cousin, or any other relative.
As far as the topic of the Bible (and subsequently, religion) goes, I won't touch on that topic. It's highly controversial, and everyone has their own thoughts, views, opinions, etc. Which we are all entitled to, but it tends to spark wars, which can easily be avoided if we all just agree to disagree, believe what we choose, and let others do the same. We all have free will, we all have our own minds, and we all make our own decisions how we see fit.
Oh that's all well and good, if it works. However, Christians are targeted on here all the time (see Debate and Discuss). Some Christians won't go in there anymore because of being flamed, called names, and cussed at. Only because we claim we are Christians. We are accused of being intolerant, when actually it's the other way around.
When I'm answering a person's Biblical question to help them out (read this thread), and then get flaming and derogatory remarks about Christians/Christianity/God/Bible from those who just want to start trouble, then it's time to say something. I didn't start this, but I'll finish it. I'll stand up for the Lord and my Faith anytime and anywhere. If they think they can shut me up? lol
Besides, qon, cuppycake, and a few others never disappoint to provide such great study topics for my Bible Study group at church.
You seem to be forgetting that Christians are NOT the only ones targeted. Everyone is a target, as we are all different and have varying thoughts/views/beliefs/opinions etc. Maybe here, on FC, Christians seem to be targeted but Christians in turn do their fair share of the targeting. Which you have done simply by quoting my post and starting your response with "Oh that's all well and good, if it works." And who are you to pick me out and direct your comments towards when I said nothing to offend Christians, or any other faith. Did I call you names? No. Did I verbally bash Christianity? No. Did I talk down on any one? No. Did I bad mouth any one's religion? No. And No, I didn't do anything to 'start trouble'. So before you go around speaking of people 'targeting' you for being a Christian, check your own actions and be sure that you are not a hypocrite in the fact that you are doing just as you claim to be a victim of... Targeting people who are not as you.
And lastly, I never claimed to not be a Christian and I never claimed to be a Christian.
And by the way (this is for any and all, not just you) Any one can claim to be a Christian. But going to church and acting Godly on Sundays (and for some, Wednesdays as well) doesn't make you a Christian any more than quacking makes you a duck.
Take this for what you will, as I can only imagine how wrong you will receive my comments. Have a nice day. (:
For one thing shadetree, you are wrong. I was not targeting you for anything. It was just an explanation (for whomever is reading this thread), and was not meant to single you (or your post) out for anything. If you took it as a personal affront, then I'm sorry. It was not meant to be. I live my Christianity every second of my life. Sundays and Weds., are just another day to me, except it's a day to "gather" with others of like precious faith as a family.
Accept my apology as nothing was aimed at you personal or otherwise. However, you do not have many posts and that tells me that you must be fairly new, or you don't frequent the forum often. cuppycake and qon (among others) are notorious for singling out Christians and flaming them on this forum. Please take my suggestion and go read all of our posts in "Debate and Discuss".....unless they have deleted their posts.
And that's where you would be incorrect. You did target me, (whether intentionally or not) as my post didn't need any further comments or explanations. Nor did it pertain to your previous experiences with others on the forum, in the past. It was plain and simple, just a read (or don't read) and move on, which you did not. That was all I meant by that.
And what difference does it make how many posts I have? It doesn't.
As far as Queenofnines and Cuppycake goes, I've not any issues with them. They state their opinions, just as you or I do. Which, we all have a right to do. If you don't like what they say, then ignore them. By acknowledging them, you only encourage them and thus bring the "hate" upon yourself.
You should exercise more caution in your words, your anger is showing (and I'm not referring to our comments to each other). Which, there is no need for.
Also, I've no desire to read what they have posted in the past, as it's in the past and has no effect on me. Again, it's their opinions, which I respect as I do yours. If you cannot do the same, then I fear you may be slipping. Are you not, as a Christian, taught to tolerate those whose views differ from your own? So you disagree with them, fine. Let it be and instead turn your focus & attention to those whom you have positive interactions with.
Why must you continually bring up the past? Move on, let it go, and don't let it bother you because otherwise, you only give them the satisfaction of getting under your skin. Which only brings a darkness upon you.
Lastly, I accept your apology, and I in turn hope that you don't take any of this the wrong way as it's not meant to offend or attack you in any way. Have a great day Annella. Be well, take care, and exercise caution. (:
As far as relating to your posts, I was only pointing out that you were new, and not familiar with a lot that has been going on around this forum. I see that you don't care, only to attack me. As far as anger, it comes through very much in some of the posts you have made to me when all I was doing was trying to help. However, the Bible says you can be angry and sin not. If your angry with me, I'm sorry because no anger was directed at you. There's nothing wrong with righteous anger as long as you do not sin. Everything I wrote, I'll stand behind because it's Truth and Bible. I have no odds against my Faith, nor do I question the validity of God's Word. I do not respect any opinion that is blasphemy and liable against God.
Your wrong. I'm to be tolerant of those who know no better and are ignorant of the Gospel. Not those who know exactly what they are doing when they blaspheme the Lord on purpose. There comes a time when you stand up and make others aware that you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Reproof and rebuke is given to the Ministry (Bible).
However, I can see that you are offended so I will steer clear of any other comments you may make that are/or not questions in the future.
I get that, but it's irrelevant. I don't care about what has been said in the past, as it had absolutely nothing to do with me. And you once again are incorrect, I am not attacking you. Although, if that is what you are after then I could always do just that.
Yet again, you are incorrect. I haven't any anger whatsoever in any of my posts, that's just how you are reading in your mind. And that's your problem, not mine.
I didn't need any help and I didn't ask for any help. You just jumped in assuming that I did. Look before you leap.
I'm not angry with you, for anything. Like I said already, there's no anger here. When I was referring to anger in your posts, I was talking about posts you had made towards others. I read your comments towards me and saw no anger in them. Clearly, there's been a misunderstanding.
That's your decision. However, I don't think God would be all to pleased with your lack of respect, regardless. But I digress.
Again, trying to tell me that I am wrong, when in actuality, I am not.
On purpose or not, you, as commanded by Him, are to Love Thy Neighbor. There is so "except for if they do this, or say that". And did it ever occur to you, that perhaps those who do so may in actuality be "ingnorant to the gospel"? Because, if you think about it, they may not do so otherwise. You claim to love the lost, yet you look down on those who don't share your views or say things you don't agree with, and on those who say things that you have referenced to before (Cuppycake, Queenofnines, etc.). The very ones who just may be/are the lost and/or ignorant. A touch hypocritical of you.
"There comes a time when you stand up and make others aware that you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ." There shouldn't be a 'time', as you should, from the beginning, be unafraid. And based upon your sentence, at some point it shows that you were ashamed. How do you suppose that made God feel, that you were ashamed of your faith in Him?
You speak with a closed mind and a closed heart, all the while pretending to be otherwise. Maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself. And while you're at it, open your eyes. Nothing you have said offended me, and there's nothing you can say that will offend me. And do you know why? Of course you don't, so I'll be so kind as to inform you... I do not allow you to have any power over me in that manner. I take no emotion towards your words, and if I may suggest.. You should try that as well. That way, maybe people such as Cuppycake and Queenofnines' words won't bother you and you can just walk away from their comments, completely unaffected, without looking back or giving them a second thought.
Good day, Annella.
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There is a ton more incest in the bible than just that.
It's also addressed as SIN. Just like fornication, adultery, having sex with animals, homosexuality, etc.....what is the point your trying to make? The Bible just about names every sin known to man. It's spelled out so that there is no question what is displeasing to God. It's like reading the answers to a very important test before you take it.
We as Christians are not liars or making excuses. We've been called just about everything in the book on this forum, and enough is enough. The Bible names the sins of man, and the punishment for those sins. After all, that's what we ALL are going to be judged by......if you believe in the Bible......and I most assuredly do!!!
I wasn't trying to judge Christians or call them names, I was just pointing out that they just mentioned the one bible story about incest and there are a lot. You don't have to flip out. You guys flipping out is why some of the people do come in here and attack Christians, to get a reaction. You guys should learn to just chill out.
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Wow...11 posts from Annella since the last time I checked (yesterday)? And she claims she has better things to do. Clearly not. lol
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I get that, but it's irrelevant. I don't care about what has been said in the past, as it had absolutely nothing to do with me. And you once again are incorrect, I am not attacking you. Although, if that is what you are after then I could always do just that.
Yet again, you are incorrect. I haven't any anger whatsoever in any of my posts, that's just how you are reading in your mind. And that's your problem, not mine.
I didn't need any help and I didn't ask for any help. You just jumped in assuming that I did. Look before you leap.
I'm not angry with you, for anything. Like I said already, there's no anger here. When I was referring to anger in your posts, I was talking about posts you had made towards others. I read your comments towards me and saw no anger in them. Clearly, there's been a misunderstanding.
That's your decision. However, I don't think God would be all to pleased with your lack of respect, regardless. But I digress.
Again, trying to tell me that I am wrong, when in actuality, I am not.
On purpose or not, you, as commanded by Him, are to Love Thy Neighbor. There is so "except for if they do this, or say that". And did it ever occur to you, that perhaps those who do so may in actuality be "ingnorant to the gospel"? Because, if you think about it, they may not do so otherwise. You claim to love the lost, yet you look down on those who don't share your views or say things you don't agree with, and on those who say things that you have referenced to before (Cuppycake, Queenofnines, etc.). The very ones who just may be/are the lost and/or ignorant. A touch hypocritical of you.
"There comes a time when you stand up and make others aware that you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ." There shouldn't be a 'time', as you should, from the beginning, be unafraid. And based upon your sentence, at some point it shows that you were ashamed. How do you suppose that made God feel, that you were ashamed of your faith in Him?
You speak with a closed mind and a closed heart, all the while pretending to be otherwise. Maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself. And while you're at it, open your eyes. Nothing you have said offended me, and there's nothing you can say that will offend me. And do you know why? Of course you don't, so I'll be so kind as to inform you... I do not allow you to have any power over me in that manner. I take no emotion towards your words, and if I may suggest.. You should try that as well. That way, maybe people such as Cuppycake and Queenofnines' words won't bother you and you can just walk away from their comments, completely unaffected, without looking back or giving them a second thought.
You just called me a hypocrite, I'm pretending, I'm ashamed of God and my Faith, I have a closed mind and heart, and have no respect. Wow! :o In your words that's not attacking? LOL
cao
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This is a topic of interest because, anything dealing with religion brings debate, conflict etc. Even if your intentions were good and not to offend anyone.
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Wow...11 posts from Annella since the last time I checked (yesterday)? And she claims she has better things to do. Clearly not. lol
11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
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Now, I haven't read through this whole thread, bc well it looked like it was a little de-railed or off track..
but I can't believe that everything in the bible is true. It was written by man - man is not perfect.
and it was re-written by man many times - once again, man is not perfect.
I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to it bc I wasn't alive back then, there could be some truth to the history in it. But we as humans are not perfect. We're corrupt and twisted and I can not for the life of me believe that a man or many men that wrote this book didn't corrupt it and twist it to fit what they wanted. And I believe what they wanted was to manipulate the masses to control them.
I don't think incest is right. Its disgusting and wrong in my book. lol :P but I also don't believe we're all brothers and sisters in that kind of sense (if the bible is all true.)
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author=queenofnines link=topic=23383.msg298101#msg298101 date=1294846471]
Wow...11 posts from Annella since the last time I checked (yesterday)? And she claims she has better things to do. Clearly not. lol
11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period.
:notworthy:
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11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
Um...it was pretty obvious that she pulled a marieelissa. Counting was not necessary; it was an amused afterthought, especially when I saw the bulk of the posts were made into the wee hours. That's not "addressing an issue", that's ranting and trying to prove herself right. Even though she's not. lol
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I would love more of the research you have done! It would help me well to learn more about my faith and where it has come from. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand this! Your friend in Christ! :angel11:
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I would love more of the research you have done! It would help me well to learn more about my faith and where it has come from. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand this! Your friend in Christ! :angel11:
There's not much more that can be presented on the subject of incest that already has been. However, you may have some specific questions about details that we can find the answers together. Like I said in the previous post......I had no idea that the "Law" given to Moses did not say anything negative about marrying cousins. It went into great detail about who we should not marry, but cousins were not included. I never saw that before. However, I need to study it out a bit more. Sometimes it's just the times in which people lived. Like today, it's frowned upon to marry your cousin because society has deemed it taboo.
Your welcome to ask me anything, on any subject, anytime. The Word will make you strong and grounded in your Faith. Nobody can take that from you as God will reveal things in such a way that there is no question of validity. Your on the right track.
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I get that, but it's irrelevant. I don't care about what has been said in the past, as it had absolutely nothing to do with me. And you once again are incorrect, I am not attacking you. Although, if that is what you are after then I could always do just that.
Yet again, you are incorrect. I haven't any anger whatsoever in any of my posts, that's just how you are reading in your mind. And that's your problem, not mine.
I didn't need any help and I didn't ask for any help. You just jumped in assuming that I did. Look before you leap.
I'm not angry with you, for anything. Like I said already, there's no anger here. When I was referring to anger in your posts, I was talking about posts you had made towards others. I read your comments towards me and saw no anger in them. Clearly, there's been a misunderstanding.
That's your decision. However, I don't think God would be all to pleased with your lack of respect, regardless. But I digress.
Again, trying to tell me that I am wrong, when in actuality, I am not.
On purpose or not, you, as commanded by Him, are to Love Thy Neighbor. There is so "except for if they do this, or say that". And did it ever occur to you, that perhaps those who do so may in actuality be "ingnorant to the gospel"? Because, if you think about it, they may not do so otherwise. You claim to love the lost, yet you look down on those who don't share your views or say things you don't agree with, and on those who say things that you have referenced to before (Cuppycake, Queenofnines, etc.). The very ones who just may be/are the lost and/or ignorant. A touch hypocritical of you.
"There comes a time when you stand up and make others aware that you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ." There shouldn't be a 'time', as you should, from the beginning, be unafraid. And based upon your sentence, at some point it shows that you were ashamed. How do you suppose that made God feel, that you were ashamed of your faith in Him?
You speak with a closed mind and a closed heart, all the while pretending to be otherwise. Maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself. And while you're at it, open your eyes. Nothing you have said offended me, and there's nothing you can say that will offend me. And do you know why? Of course you don't, so I'll be so kind as to inform you... I do not allow you to have any power over me in that manner. I take no emotion towards your words, and if I may suggest.. You should try that as well. That way, maybe people such as Cuppycake and Queenofnines' words won't bother you and you can just walk away from their comments, completely unaffected, without looking back or giving them a second thought.
You just called me a hypocrite, I'm pretending, I'm ashamed of God and my Faith, I have a closed mind and heart, and have no respect. Wow! :o In your words that's not attacking? LOL
cao
Actually no, I did not call you a hypocrite. I stated that you were behaving hypocritically.
I said in previous posts that I wasn't attacking and in my prior posts I was not attacking.
You provoked and I answered, but not with malevolent intent so, essentially I was not attacking. Merely making statements. If you choose to view it as an attack, then by all means, you go right ahead.
Play with fire Annella, and you will wind up getting burned. So maybe you should check your superiority complex at the door, and realize that you are no better than the rest of us. Your choice of faith doesn't make you better, we were All Created Equal.
Btw, what happened to "I will steer clear of any other comments you may make that are/or not questions in the future." By responding to my post, you've now made yourself out to be a liar. Hmm.... now I wonder how God feels about liars/lying...
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Now, I haven't read through this whole thread, bc well it looked like it was a little de-railed or off track..
but I can't believe that everything in the bible is true. It was written by man - man is not perfect.
and it was re-written by man many times - once again, man is not perfect.
I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to it bc I wasn't alive back then, there could be some truth to the history in it. But we as humans are not perfect. We're corrupt and twisted and I can not for the life of me believe that a man or many men that wrote this book didn't corrupt it and twist it to fit what they wanted. And I believe what they wanted was to manipulate the masses to control them.
I don't think incest is right. Its disgusting and wrong in my book. lol :P but I also don't believe we're all brothers and sisters in that kind of sense (if the bible is all true.)
I agree with this completely. This is kind of the only way that I could believe the bible is real and everything. There's also the amount of times it has been translated and rewritten..
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as I posted earlier, science and christinaity can co-exist for the reason alone that I can have faith in knowing that God allowed for things to happen. You make a point about Adam and Eve, but who's to say that in God's all knowing power and ability that he couldn't protect them from the dangers of what incest can have? Is it technically incest, sure, but you're taking out the faith behind it.
I am quoting this because I am afraid in the mish mash of things it got overlooked, and it was one of the best points I've seen on this thread.
Yes, there are issues when it comes to incest. Incest is actually one of the most utilized methods of ensuring purity of race, and those who are too related when it comes to DNA often have children with genetic issues. However... g-d is all powerful, and when g-d created the world, do we know 100% everything that g-d did? There are questions as to whether g-d created Adam and Eve alone, or if Adam had another wife named Lilith, or if there were other humans and Adam and Eve were to "replenish" the earth, or even if there is more than one g-d (Thou shalt have no other gods before me...)...
Like Matt says... who's to say that in God's all knowing power and ability that he couldn't protect them from the dangers of what incest can have? Is it technically incest, sure, but you're taking out the faith behind it. Like the nursery rhyme says, it's time to clap your hands. Good point, Matt.
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Yes, if you believe in the ludicrousy of the Bible, everyone on this planet is brother and sister. Now wait for the excuses to roll in on how it wasn't a "global" flood, god may have created a separate group of people, god waved his magic wand and made it all okay, etc. All lies.
i dont find that at all amusing i mean i cant amagine having sex with my family member that is far beyoung my belife of any kind.
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11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
Um...it was pretty obvious that she pulled a marieelissa. Counting was not necessary; it was an amused afterthought, especially when I saw the bulk of the posts were made into the wee hours. That's not "addressing an issue", that's ranting and trying to prove herself right. Even though she's not. lol
I don't really see the amusement in it. The "wee hours" don't really matter either when either we are in different time zones and/or someone has a night of insomnia. I saw no ranting in her responses, either. The poster with the question seems to appreciate Annella's responses whether or not it fully answers the questions.
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Adam and Eve were created perfect in every way.
No disrespect Sheryl, but do you see how this is one of the earliest logical fallacies in the Bible? If they were created perfect by a perfect being, then it is logically impossible for them to become imperfect. But that's not how the story goes, does it?
It makes sense for primitive man to overlook the logical problems of their invented concepts.
What is modern man's excuse??
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Now, I haven't read through this whole thread, bc well it looked like it was a little de-railed or off track..
but I can't believe that everything in the bible is true. It was written by man - man is not perfect.
and it was re-written by man many times - once again, man is not perfect.
I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to it bc I wasn't alive back then, there could be some truth to the history in it. But we as humans are not perfect. We're corrupt and twisted and I can not for the life of me believe that a man or many men that wrote this book didn't corrupt it and twist it to fit what they wanted. And I believe what they wanted was to manipulate the masses to control them.
I don't think incest is right. Its disgusting and wrong in my book. lol :P but I also don't believe we're all brothers and sisters in that kind of sense (if the bible is all true.)
I agree with this completely. This is kind of the only way that I could believe the bible is real and everything. There's also the amount of times it has been translated and rewritten..
Okay, you have made it plain that you don't believe the Bible or that it's even real.....more than once in this thread....got it! Your choosing to reject the Bible as the Word of God. Okay. However, you say it's disgusting and wrong in your book. Noted. The Bible calls it wrong also.
As far as translations, I don't hold much with the newer translations and stick with the KJV. Amy, who is Jewish can probably interpret it better than most because of her Hebrew connection. There are also Concordance's in Hebrew and Greek (for Old and New Testament translations, word for word interpretation), Commentaries, Bible Dictionaries, and other study guides to study the Bible and it's determine it's authenticity. Those of us that have studied it extensively have found it to be the True Record from God. I have a Bible with the most popular 8 translations that man has made. The KJV is the oldest and purest form I've found. If you study the original translation (KJV), how it came about, and where it came from, you will see that it is authentic. The dead sea scrolls that were found at the Qumran Caves in Israel, are replicas, word for word of different books of the Bible. The whole book of Isaiah (found at Qumran) is "spot on" identical with the KJV.
Excuse me! Are you talking to me Anella!? Because I've only posted one time in this thread with the exception of this post, which is my 2nd post in this thread. Excuse me for throwing my opinion/belief into the mix. But if you want to get technical.. So you believe in the bible, Got it! You follow it as the word of god, Okay, I think we get it!
You have serious problems
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What I think of incest & the Bible: Adam and Eve were created perfect in every way. Their children were also born physically and genetically perfect. Cain's wife then, could have been one of his sisters with no problems. (Likewise, many of Adam & Eve's children would have inter-married with no problems.) God had to temporarily allow intra-family marriages to increase the population. However, God does not condone near-relative marriages. If God's command to Israel ("None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord." ) (Leviticus 18:6)
been given to Adam and Eve, and they and their children all obeyed it, mankind would have quickly died out. According to the Bible, all people are descendants of Adam and Eve...all are of “one blood.” (So, if you don't marry a relation---you don't marry a human.)
Sheryl brings up a good point. God is God and can protect humanity. Adam and Eve were perfect until they sinned. We can be a new creature in Christ, turn around and denounce the very existence of God, and become corrupt in our own pride and arrogance. What God made was "very good", but sin corrupts. Adam and Eve were made perfect, but had free choice to stay that way....which they did not
Again...the "Law" was handed down to Moses to man. Before that, it was a different dispensation with different variables which man lived and died. What kind of "Law" was there then? We don't know. However, man is known to make his own rules regardless of what God wants for him. Today we are different races, blood types, genetics, etc. Why? because after the flood, the 3 sons of Noah's offspring got divided in the earth. There is nothing to tell the races of their wives, or themselves to be honest. Also, at the tower of Babel, God changed the main language into different languages, dialects, etc., so that also contributed separating the people further into their prospective races, tribes.
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Excuse me! Are you talking to me Anella!? Because I've only posted one time in this thread with the exception of this post, which is my 2nd post in this thread. Excuse me for throwing my opinion/belief into the mix. But if you want to get technical.. So you believe in the bible, Got it! You follow it as the word of god, Okay, I think we get it!
You have serious problems
No, I'm not talking to you at all. I thought I layed down a quote that was not yours (I'll go check). You have made the comment that the Bible could be true. Your not who I was talking to. Your right though. I have a serious problem deciding what's for dinner.
Okay, I see I picked up your quote with someone else's. I'll correct it.
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It wasn't just that you quoted my text with it too by accident, its the fact that you slammed on me and what I said, like you were all high and mighty. It was very rude imo. And you're supposed to be a good hearted amazing christian like person? ... please
It just shows a lot about your character and who you are as a person... and everyone here can see it.
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It wasn't just that you quoted my text with it too by accident, its the fact that you slammed on me and what I said, like you were all high and mighty. It was very rude imo. And you're supposed to be a good hearted amazing christian like person? ... please
It just shows a lot about your character and who you are as a person... and everyone here can see it.
Okay, I had to go back and see what happened. I'm on another thread, and picked up your quote by mistake as being theirs. Sorry you feel that way. I've removed the post and apologize. It was a mistake.
I'm talking to the same person on another thread, and going back and forth, and just now made the correlation. Now I can't even make a mistake. I've been up for almost 2 days straight. It happens sometimes with me as I can survive on very little sleep. while I don't feel sleepy, the cognitive skills suffer a bit. It was an honest mistake.
Thank you for calling my attention to it, but your derogatory comments were not necessary. I admitted it was my mistake and fixed it.
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It wasn't just that you quoted my text with it too by accident, its the fact that you slammed on me and what I said, like you were all high and mighty. It was very rude imo. And you're supposed to be a good hearted amazing christian like person? ... please
It just shows a lot about your character and who you are as a person... and everyone here can see it.
I'm not perfect and can make mistakes, however your blasting of my character is not proper either. I said I was sorry for everyone to see, and removed the post. Is there some other kind of restitution you want?
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I don't claim to be perfect and godly. So if I come across as "improper" I could care less. You've already shown these wonderful people what kind of person you are.
And I, don't need or want anything from you. just keep up the good work. I'm sure you've ran off tons of christians with your mouth. Need I say more.
Good day.
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11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
Um...it was pretty obvious that she pulled a marieelissa. Counting was not necessary; it was an amused afterthought, especially when I saw the bulk of the posts were made into the wee hours. That's not "addressing an issue", that's ranting and trying to prove herself right. Even though she's not. lol
I don't really see the amusement in it. The "wee hours" don't really matter either when either we are in different time zones and/or someone has a night of insomnia. I saw no ranting in her responses, either. The poster with the question seems to appreciate Annella's responses whether or not it fully answers the questions.
"Jcribb", thank you for your words. However, since we know each other outside this forum we know what the other is going through, than say......a stranger behind a computer does not. I take no offense to the "wee" hours in the morning comment. Hope the "air" is kind to you today.
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I don't claim to be perfect and godly. So if I come across as "improper" I could care less. You've already shown these wonderful people what kind of person you are.
And I, don't need or want anything from you. just keep up the good work. I'm sure you've ran off tons of christians with your mouth. Need I say more.
Good day.
Sorry dear, but your character is coming through loud and clear, that was way harsh for an honest mistake.
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@ Annella ~ My character? lol I'm not the one on here blasting people and flying off the handle at anyone that has a difference of opinion. If you're supposed to be preaching to people and trying to show them gods love, then you're doing a *bleep* poor job of it. IMO. You're running more people off than you are reaching out to. Maybe you should take a different approach. Just sayin.
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I have to agree with Sflynt. You're the one arguing with everyone and deleting your own posts. It kind of says something when you're deleting your own posts even after people have responded to them.
Plus, when someone posts an opinion that hasn't been stated yet a proper response is not "OH MY GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, WE GET IT." It's not as if either of us repeated ourselves in any way, shape, or form, and anyone with a brain could see that that is a very valid opinion with plenty of reason behind it. If you just want to flip when someone has a different opinion than you, then you should probably not be on forums like this.
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Like you said, it's your opinion. If your going to accuse me of running people off, I guess your prepared to tell me who?
I find it particularly humorous when Christians stand up for what they believe, then they are not behaving as Christians, or their weak, or they are not how Christians should act, ect. What kind of yardstick are we to adhere to? the Bible yardstick? If someone doesn't believe the Bible or God for that matter, where does the measuring up to unbelievers standards come from? Thing about it......it's a catch 22 for Christians. It doesn't matter what we do or say, someone is going to have a problem with it. Because I'm not some weak, mealy mouthed mamby pamby......what the unbelievers think a Christians place should be, then my love isn't showing?
I apologized to you because I made a mistake. Something Christians do when they realize they did something wrong, or offended someone (accidently in this case). You basically threw it back in my teeth. Whatever bone you want to chew on, or whatever has got you "ticked", is on you. I've done what I'm suppose to do.
One of your posts here recently made the statement that good people will go to hell because they are unbelievers, and that the rapists and child molesters will go to heaven because they claim to be a Christian. How in the world can you believe that? God forbid!!
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I have to agree with Sflynt. You're the one arguing with everyone and deleting your own posts. It kind of says something when you're deleting your own posts even after people have responded to them.
Plus, when someone posts an opinion that hasn't been stated yet a proper response is not "OH MY GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, WE GET IT." It's not as if either of us repeated ourselves in any way, shape, or form, and anyone with a brain could see that that is a very valid opinion with plenty of reason behind it. If you just want to flip when someone has a different opinion than you, then you should probably not be on forums like this.
Doesn't it stand to reason that if someone does not believe in the Bible or God, why should I try to give them scripture, or explain anything Biblical when they don't believe it? Would you? Wouldn't you be beating the air?
I have no idea what valid opinion you are talking about.....and with what plenty of reason behind what? Your not making sense.
I deleted ONE post that I posted in error. I told her I deleted it. Now what other posts are you talking about that I've deleted? If your going to throw accusations out there, be prepared to back it up with fact.
I can continue to be on this forum anytime I want. When you become Admin. of Fusion Cash, then you can say who can, cannot, should, should not, be on this forum. However, you don't have to read my posts.
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haha classic response.
It is my opinion and only that. Take it how you want.
I also never said they would go to heaven because they claim to be christian. But if they(the criminals) are christian, and they've been saved, then all is forgiven, am I right? and that leads us to believe that they shall go to heaven, right? Thats what the christians teach us.
You've posted on here many many times what you believe and then just blasted people because of their beliefs and how many times they've stated their beliefs on here like "OKAY, WE GET IT"..so, what... its okay for you to but not okay for other people to do it?
You can stand up for your beliefs, you have every right to, but IMO you come across as high and mighty like you're better than everyone. Which was all too clear when you were so quick to run your mouth on my post. Since you were on your pedestal and probably felt like you were on a roll, didn't notice that you were blasting the wrong person. You should take a better approach if you're trying to reach out to people. It's quite obvious.
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haha classic response.
It is my opinion and only that. Take it how you want.
I also never said they would go to heaven because they claim to be christian. But if they(the criminals) are christian, and they've been saved, then all is forgiven, am I right? and that leads us to believe that they shall go to heaven, right? Thats what the christians teach us.
You've posted on here many many times what you believe and then just blasted people because of their beliefs and how many times they've stated their beliefs on here like "OKAY, WE GET IT"..so, what... its okay for you to but not okay for other people to do it?
You can stand up for your beliefs, you have every right to, but IMO you come across as high and mighty like you're better than everyone. Which was all too clear when you were so quick to run your mouth on my post. Since you were on your pedestal and probably felt like you were on a roll, didn't notice that you were blasting the wrong person. You should take a better approach if you're trying to reach out to people. It's quite obvious.
What Christians have you been listening to? There's no such thing as once saved, always saved.
You made the accusation twice that I've ran people off this forum, and I've asked you to provide me with some kind of proof or names. If you can't, then it's a fabrication on your part, and your accusing me erroneously.
Your the one who keeps running their mouth about that post. Get over it and move on. I picture a hamster on one of those running wheels. It just keeps going round and round and it goes nowhere.
Whatever opinion you have is just that....your opinion....everybody has one. I have a counseling Appt. in an hour so I must get ready.
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Why on earth would someone post such a question in the forum....................??????????????????????
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Like you said, it's your opinion. If your going to accuse me of running people off, I guess your prepared to tell me who?
I find it particularly humorous when Christians stand up for what they believe, then they are not behaving as Christians, or their weak, or they are not how Christians should act, ect. What kind of yardstick are we to adhere to? the Bible yardstick? If someone doesn't believe the Bible or God for that matter, where does the measuring up to unbelievers standards come from? Thing about it......it's a catch 22 for Christians. It doesn't matter what we do or say, someone is going to have a problem with it. Because I'm not some weak, mealy mouthed mamby pamby......what the unbelievers think a Christians place should be, then my love isn't showing?
I apologized to you because I made a mistake. Something Christians do when they realize they did something wrong, or offended someone (accidently in this case). You basically threw it back in my teeth. Whatever bone you want to chew on, or whatever has got you "ticked", is on you. I've done what I'm suppose to do.
One of your posts here recently made the statement that good people will go to hell because they are unbelievers, and that the rapists and child molesters will go to heaven because they claim to be a Christian. How in the world can you believe that? God forbid!!
What Christians have you been listening to? There's no such thing as once saved, always saved.
You made the accusation twice that I've ran people off this forum, and I've asked you to provide me with some kind of proof or names. If you can't, then it's a fabrication on your part, and your accusing me erroneously.
Your the one who keeps running their mouth about that post. Get over it and move on. I picture a hamster on one of those running wheels. It just keeps going round and round and it goes nowhere.
Whatever opinion you have is just that....your opinion....everybody has one. I have a counseling Appt. in an hour so I must get ready.
I never said you ran anyone off of this forum. Where did you get that? But you are one of the reasons why I don't believe anymore. Does that answer your question?
I also never said, Once saved, always saved. But if they go to prison for raping small children and then find god while there, do they not go to heaven when they die? You have still yet to answer my question. You just keep side tracking everything.
Oh, I just don't want anyone to miss that post. It was beautiful.
and You really shouldn't delete your posts like that. It's not fair to those that missed it.
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You are talking in circles, and I'm not side tracking anything. Since you don't respect my opinion, why would you want me to answer anything? However, if your wanting to know if someone who did wrong, repented, and was forgiven, will they go to Heaven? If they continue to live their life for God from that time on, and not turn from it, yes. However, you can lose your Salvation, by turning your back on God and be lost, even after being saved.
That's too bad, I wouldn't let anyone separate me from the Lord I love. Especially someone I didn't even know on some forum. Your statement that I'm one of the reasons you don't believe anymore doesn't hold water. That's just absurd. I don't know you, and that excuse won't hold up when you stand before God. We all will answer for our own selves. If you can be swayed from God by anyone, then you have fallen into the oldest tricks that the enemy weaves. Man will always fail because......we are imperfect and will fail. We are to keep our eyes on God no matter what, as He is the one that matters.
It's like saying: "Well, I didn't like what that TV Preacher said, so I'm not going to be a Christian". That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Something is very wrong. You have bitterness, and you seem to resent someone or something very much. You need to get with a spiritual counselor that you trust, or just "someone" you can trust (a family member?), and get whatever it is settled in your heart. It may take forgiving someone that has hurt you terribly in your past. I'm not saying this to be abusive or to hurl accusations. I think I might represent something you have a lot of anger against. Maybe your angry at God for something.
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You're just one of the many reasons.
I don't love him because he's not there. and How can I be mad at something that isn't there? Even when I was a firm believer I never was angry at him. I just finally opened my eyes and realized that its all a bunch of lies. I am actually one of the most happy-go-lucky kind of person you'd ever meet. A big goofball if you will.
So they will go to heaven? that was my point. Why would I want to go to a place where rapists, murderers, and the like will be (if they've been saved)? Not my kind of place.
I never disrespected your opinion...
and you came at me. You don't like it, then don't talk to me.
and please don't give me your psychobabble BS and try to act all sympathetic and caring. I don't buy it. Please, get off your high horse.
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Ahhh....Now we finally get down to it. You once believed.....but now you claim God doesn't exist, and it's all a bunch of lies.
Well, I'll not address you any further.
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Ahhh....Now we finally get down to it. You once believed.....but now you claim God doesn't exist, and it's all a bunch of lies.
Well, I'll not address you any further.
lol
@sflynt: Join the club, girl! Because, you know, all of the millions of people who have wised up and left Christianity...we were just faking our belief in god the entire time, of course! It must be true, because Annella says so!
http://www.godisimaginary.com/
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Ahhh....Now we finally get down to it. You once believed.....but now you claim God doesn't exist, and it's all a bunch of lies.
Well, I'll not address you any further.
lol
@sflynt: Join the club, girl! Because, you know, all of the millions of people who have wised up and left Christianity...we were just faking our belief in god the entire time, of course! It must be true, because Annella says so!
http://www.godisimaginary.com/
It's a shame, really. It comes out you were faking your belief. So your original claim to believe in God was fake - you didn't mean it; you weren't sincere? I'm sorry to hear that. My belief in God, from my original sincere belief in Christ, in July of 1971, was genuine and sincere. It is still genuine and sincere today. I may not understand everything in God's world, but one day maybe I will, when in eternity with Him. In the meantime, I love my Lord, study about my Lord, in His Word, and other books, introduce others to Him, try to answer questions (in the capability of knowledge that only humans have), and fellowship with other believers who also love Christ.
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It's simple. A lot of people "know" about the Lord, but don't actually "know" him, and come to the realization that He is real. A friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
When you really fall in love with Jesus, He binds you to Him with cords of spiritual love. The more you live for Him, learn what He did, and why He did it, the stronger that love and bond gets, and the more He reveals himself to you, day by day.
Jcribb, I came to God only a year earlier than you did. My life was so shattered, but God put the pieces of my worthless life back together, (a miracle). Only God can make a silk purse out of a sows ear. He's in the miracle working business.
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Ahhh....Now we finally get down to it. You once believed.....but now you claim God doesn't exist, and it's all a bunch of lies.
Well, I'll not address you any further.
lol
@sflynt: Join the club, girl! Because, you know, all of the millions of people who have wised up and left Christianity...we were just faking our belief in god the entire time, of course! It must be true, because Annella says so!
http://www.godisimaginary.com/
I guess so. Its sad, really, that its like that.
I have a question QO9, does she address you?
Ahhh....Now we finally get down to it. You once believed.....but now you claim God doesn't exist, and it's all a bunch of lies.
Well, I'll not address you any further.
Sorry, That post made me chuckle. I envisioned your nose in the air while I read that.
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It's a shame, really. It comes out you were faking your belief. So your original claim to believe in God was fake - you didn't mean it; you weren't sincere? I'm sorry to hear that.
Um, read what I wrote again, jcribb. I thought my sarcasm was pretty clear.
I truly did believe in your god for a few years. I got baptized. I'd like my money back for all the tithes I paid. I did crazy Christian things, like warn people of hell by writing on dollar bills.
It is beyond ignorant of Christians to accuse ex-Christians of never having a true belief; that is my point. Y'all don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so just stop.
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I have a question QO9, does she address you?
Yes she still does, although each time she swears it will be the last! Oh, and she warns people of what a god awful person I am every time. lol ;)
You're next!
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I have a question QO9, does she address you?
Yes she still does, although each time she swears it will be the last! Oh, and she warns people of what a god awful person I am every time. lol ;)
You're next!
I think you are amazing. If that means anything.
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It's a shame, really. It comes out you were faking your belief. So your original claim to believe in God was fake - you didn't mean it; you weren't sincere? I'm sorry to hear that.
Um, read what I wrote again, jcribb. I thought my sarcasm was pretty clear.
I truly did believe in your god for a few years. I got baptized. I'd like my money back for all the tithes I paid. I did crazy Christian things, like warn people of hell by writing on dollar bills.
It is beyond ignorant of Christians to accuse ex-Christians of never having a true belief; that is my point. Y'all don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so just stop.
You are telling me to stop? Isn't that a bit childish? Oh and by the way, yes, your sarcasm was pretty clear - I was answering in like kind (partially, because I'm also sorry for you, eternally, whether you want me to be or not.) Oh, and something I didn't do was to deface our nation's dollar bills.
One last thing: I know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to being a Christian in the Lord, as far as my personal choice and I'm not accusing you of never having a true belief - at one time, in another thread, I remember telling you that you actually were still saved in the Lord because you made that decision back then and meant it. If you have blasphemed the Lord, then yes, you lost your eternity with Him, as it is in His Word in the New Testament. But, I don't really know what's deep down in your heart other than that you say you are not a Christian now. Ultimately, that's between you and the Lord (or no Lord, as you say), as my decision in Christ is between me and the Lord.
Just a reminder: I was being partially sarcastic and partially realistic back to you. I have not said you don't have a clue because you and I both know you do have a clue about what's involved with Christianity. We are definitely on opposite sides of the fence. That's your choice and that's my choice. I am, however, firm in my choice to accept the Lord, and I won't back out on the Lord.
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It's a shame, really. It comes out you were faking your belief. So your original claim to believe in God was fake - you didn't mean it; you weren't sincere? I'm sorry to hear that.
Um, read what I wrote again, jcribb. I thought my sarcasm was pretty clear.
I truly did believe in your god for a few years. I got baptized. I'd like my money back for all the tithes I paid. I did crazy Christian things, like warn people of hell by writing on dollar bills.
It is beyond ignorant of Christians to accuse ex-Christians of never having a true belief; that is my point. Y'all don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so just stop.
You are telling me to stop? Isn't that a bit childish? Oh and by the way, yes, your sarcasm was pretty clear - I was answering in like kind (partially, because I'm also sorry for you, eternally, whether you want me to be or not.) Oh, and something I didn't do was to deface our nation's dollar bills.
One last thing: I know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to being a Christian in the Lord, as far as my personal choice and I'm not accusing you of never having a true belief - at one time, in another thread, I remember telling you that you actually were still saved in the Lord because you made that decision back then and meant it. If you have blasphemed the Lord, then yes, you lost your eternity with Him, as it is in His Word in the New Testament. But, I don't really know what's deep down in your heart other than that you say you are not a Christian now. Ultimately, that's between you and the Lord (or no Lord, as you say), as my decision in Christ is between me and the Lord.
Just a reminder: I was being partially sarcastic and partially realistic back to you. I have not said you don't have a clue because you and I both know you do have a clue about what's involved with Christianity. We are definitely on opposite sides of the fence. That's your choice and that's my choice. I am, however, firm in my choice to accept the Lord, and I won't back out on the Lord.
It couldn't have been said any better.
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I have a question QO9, does she address you?
Yes she still does, although each time she swears it will be the last! Oh, and she warns people of what a god awful person I am every time. lol ;)
You're next!
I won't try to post anything about the Bible or God to you because you don't believe in either. However, if you are going to verbally attack and call Christians slimy, liars, blaspheme God, etc., when I'm trying to help someone out with a spiritual question, then you will hear from me.
Nobody accused anyone of not having a belief (true or otherwise) before. However, you chose to give that up, and now you have turned completely against God and His followers. That is your choice, but don't expect us to sit still while the Lord that we still love with all our heart, is blasphemed and vexed with your verbal spewing every time you get a chance.
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:cat: Thank you, Annella.
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Boy...this topic really brings out the hostilities in some people. Personally, we have the choice to believe what we want. If you don't believe in God, that's your choice. I'll certainly not beat anyone up for not believing the way I do.
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Boy...this topic really brings out the hostilities in some people. Personally, we have the choice to believe what we want. If you don't believe in God, that's your choice. I'll certainly not beat anyone up for not believing the way I do.
Thank you! That's exactly what I'm trying to get across, as well.
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That is true and false, because back in those times people werent considered unclean, God created everything and everyone pure. However, after time the sin set it and became corrupt and people took what God had made for good, and turned it to evil.
We are all children of God, however, everyone is not God's child. You know.
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It was probably okay then because the Earth had to be repopulated somehow? But now its unacceptable.
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I think you are amazing. If that means anything.
Aww, thanks Cuppycake! You are too!
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I have a question QO9, does she address you?
Yes she still does, although each time she swears it will be the last! Oh, and she warns people of what a god awful person I am every time. lol ;)
You're next!
I won't try to post anything about the Bible or God to you because you don't believe in either. However, if you are going to verbally attack and call Christians slimy, liars, blaspheme God, etc., when I'm trying to help someone out with a spiritual question, then you will hear from me.
Nobody accused anyone of not having a belief (true or otherwise) before. However, you chose to give that up, and now you have turned completely against God and His followers. That is your choice, but don't expect us to sit still while the Lord that we still love with all our heart, is blasphemed and vexed with your verbal spewing every time you get a chance.
You do realize that most of this "attack" has been in your head, right?
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11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
Um...it was pretty obvious that she pulled a marieelissa. Counting was not necessary; it was an amused afterthought, especially when I saw the bulk of the posts were made into the wee hours. That's not "addressing an issue", that's ranting and trying to prove herself right. Even though she's not. lol
You have a lot to say, that is just rants and you are also trying to prove yourself right. No body is right or wrong in this forum it's just opinions everybody has their own veiws and are free to post them as they please
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I would love more of the research you have done! It would help me well to learn more about my faith and where it has come from. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand this! Your friend in Christ! :angel11:
There's not much more that can be presented on the subject of incest that already has been. However, you may have some specific questions about details that we can find the answers together. Like I said in the previous post......I had no idea that the "Law" given to Moses did not say anything negative about marrying cousins. It went into great detail about who we should not marry, but cousins were not included. I never saw that before. However, I need to study it out a bit more. Sometimes it's just the times in which people lived. Like today, it's frowned upon to marry your cousin because society has deemed it taboo.
Your welcome to ask me anything, on any subject, anytime. The Word will make you strong and grounded in your Faith. Nobody can take that from you as God will reveal things in such a way that there is no question of validity. Your on the right track.
hank you so much Annella!
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11? That's a shame you have to actually count the posts someone does in a certain time period. It just shows she took the time to answer and address an issue that is important to her. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether she posted once, 11, or 111 times. Obviously, some of the "better things to do" were put off for a little bit to handle the matter at hand.
Um...it was pretty obvious that she pulled a marieelissa. Counting was not necessary; it was an amused afterthought, especially when I saw the bulk of the posts were made into the wee hours. That's not "addressing an issue", that's ranting and trying to prove herself right. Even though she's not. lol
I don't really see the amusement in it. The "wee hours" don't really matter either when either we are in different time zones and/or someone has a night of insomnia. I saw no ranting in her responses, either. The poster with the question seems to appreciate Annella's responses whether or not it fully answers the questions.
I do apperciate any post that help pertainint to my question. Annella has helped me alot thank you for pointing out how I do apperciate the answers that aren't just rants
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What I think of incest & the Bible: Adam and Eve were created perfect in every way. Their children were also born physically and genetically perfect. Cain's wife then, could have been one of his sisters with no problems. (Likewise, many of Adam & Eve's children would have inter-married with no problems.) God had to temporarily allow intra-family marriages to increase the population. However, God does not condone near-relative marriages. If God's command to Israel ("None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord." ) (Leviticus 18:6)
been given to Adam and Eve, and they and their children all obeyed it, mankind would have quickly died out. According to the Bible, all people are descendants of Adam and Eve...all are of “one blood.” (So, if you don't marry a relation---you don't marry a human.)
I agree with this. It put answers to my question in a better way and does help me to understand the bible better! Thank you so much for your time and patients in finding and writing this!
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Why on earth would someone post such a question in the forum....................??????????????????????
I posted the question for answers and to recieve different views on the subject matter. If you don't like the question then you didn't have to read this post and take time to answer it.
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
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You are right; we ALL are descendants from Noah' three sons: Ham, Shem and Japheth. If truth be told, we're ALL related.
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:icon_rr:
You are right; we ALL are descendants from Noah' three sons: Ham, Shem and Japheth. If truth be told, we're ALL related.
That's it in a nutshell...................
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Wow. ::)
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
Well I am sorry but that's my opinion. You're liars because you believe in a Hell and Devil when there isn't one.
You have irrefutable evidence proving that it doesn't exist? Please do share this with the rest of the world since you've made such the theological find of the century.
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
I had to take Marieelissa off ignore to see what she was saying. sswilliams2008, don't worry what Marieelissa says as she's a Christian one month, and the next she's an atheist, or agnostic or whatever she thinks she wants to be at the time. She's a very confused young lady. I feel sorry for her and pray for her accordingly. Arguing with her is beating the air and you get nowhere.
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the gene pool was "purer" at that time......once DNA gets run out in sequences...."errors" begin to show up and you get a third limb or retardation.....HA...technically Adam was the first one to really screw himself....
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Considering there are whites/Blacks/Asians/Latino/Native Americans and so on...we can see this story is False.
That wouldn't necessarily make the story false. It's not believing in evolution that makes it so obviously false.
Oh, and that's not "yet another attack on Christians," some Christians do believe in evolution.
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I have the answer to this one: Back then it was necessary to create the human race, it wasn't done out of sin. Today if this happens, it would be done out of a different motive, it would be sin, obviously people that do this are not under pressure to recreate. As there are plenty of people in the world. Back then the Gene Pool was different, so God could create us. It is incest today as our Genes are the same.
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
Well I am sorry but that's my opinion. You're liars because you believe in a Hell and Devil when there isn't one.
That's not lying. If they believe in something they're not lying. You need to think harder before you post. I'm not even Christian and I think you're just being ridiculous and annoying.
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
Well I am sorry but that's my opinion. You're liars because you believe in a Hell and Devil when there isn't one.
You have irrefutable evidence proving that it doesn't exist? Please do share this with the rest of the world since you've made such the theological find of the century.
Because my God doesn't create things only to send them to hell for any reason what so ever. Even if they don't believe in him.
So you don't have any irrifutable evidence?
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We as Christians are not liars or making excuses.
Yes you are! You guys don't even have common sense.
Excuse me? Calling Christians liars and saying we don't have common sense shows who really doesn't have common sense. I find what you just said very insulting!
Well I am sorry but that's my opinion. You're liars because you believe in a Hell and Devil when there isn't one.
You have irrefutable evidence proving that it doesn't exist? Please do share this with the rest of the world since you've made such the theological find of the century.
Because my God doesn't create things only to send them to hell for any reason what so ever. Even if they don't believe in him.
So you don't have any irrifutable evidence?
Nope, I just don't believe in your God because he isn't anything like what a God should be.
Sorry it's not all unicorns and rainbows and cotton candy.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Considering there are whites/Blacks/Asians/Latino/Native Americans and so on...we can see this story is False.
That wouldn't necessarily make the story false. It's not believing in evolution that makes it so obviously false.
Oh, and that's not "yet another attack on Christians," some Christians do believe in evolution.
I don't know of any Christian that believes in the Evolution theory. They do believe in science of discovery, and that science points to a Creator (Google: "A Case For A Creator" and "A Case for a Savior"). The more science delves into the human body, and the world around us, they realize that all this did not happen by chance, or evolved into who and what we are today.
Any Christian I know believes in the Creation Theory that is spoken of in the book of Genesis.....not evolution. There are many threads in "Debate and Discuss" that cover this extensively.....very extensively. If your interested, you can go read them for yourself. They are quite in depth.
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Science and Catholicism can exist in perfect harmony. Belief in evolution can exist in perfect harmony as well. I posted the exact reasoning earlier in this thread.
A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall. In those homilies, he made a similar argument: The creation story in Genesis is a spiritual history. It simply doesn't matter what physical means God used to create the world and all living creatures therein; what matters is that man is both body and soul, and his creation is not complete until God has breathed the breath of life into him. And about the creation of the soul (and, thus, of the complete man), science can tell us nothing.
"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.
Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI
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Science and Catholicism can exist in perfect harmony. Belief in evolution can exist in perfect harmony as well. I posted the exact reasoning earlier in this thread.
A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall. In those homilies, he made a similar argument: The creation story in Genesis is a spiritual history. It simply doesn't matter what physical means God used to create the world and all living creatures therein; what matters is that man is both body and soul, and his creation is not complete until God has breathed the breath of life into him. And about the creation of the soul (and, thus, of the complete man), science can tell us nothing.
"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.
Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI
Again....I refer to "A Case for a Creator" and "A Case for a Savior" which refer to some of the greatest scientific minds of our time to answer some of these questions. While some of science's theories may have some truth to them (in theory). The creation of man came from God...not evolution of species, and then into man (like Darwin's theories). How the world (earth) came to be from a scientific standpoint has some merit to it.
While I understand your position to stand with your choice of religion, not all of us are Catholics or chose to be so. However, some of what you quoted from your Pope is correct.....but not all. I hope we are not here to quote our own personal religious leaders because that is not what we were talking about.
My source of information on the creation of man is the Bible. It's pretty explanatory.
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I draw my thoughts from my religion and since I don't follow any others nor do I actually really care I use what I personally know to back up my own thoughts.
You stated that religion and science can not coexist, I stated with backed up thoughts by my religion and using examples and citing references that they can. I see no difference in my doing that than anyone else. At least I used an example other than the typical "no you" argument.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Considering there are whites/Blacks/Asians/Latino/Native Americans and so on...we can see this story is False.
That wouldn't necessarily make the story false. It's not believing in evolution that makes it so obviously false.
Oh, and that's not "yet another attack on Christians," some Christians do believe in evolution.
I don't know of any Christian that believes in the Evolution theory. They do believe in science of discovery, and that science points to a Creator (Google: "A Case For A Creator" and "A Case for a Savior"). The more science delves into the human body, and the world around us, they realize that all this did not happen by chance, or evolved into who and what we are today.
Any Christian I know believes in the Creation Theory that is spoken of in the book of Genesis.....not evolution. There are many threads in "Debate and Discuss" that cover this extensively.....very extensively. If your interested, you can go read them for yourself. They are quite in depth.
Well I do. My Biology professor for example believes in evolution and he is Episcopalian. I'm pretty sure my parents both are. I've run into plenty on the internet.
Evolution A. doesn't say anything about how life was created (You can believe in evolution and still believe that God created everything) and B. has been proven to be FACT. It is happening as we type. Diseases are evolving to become resistant to more and more antibiotics. Fungi are evolving to become resistant to fungicides. Mosquitoes are evolving to become resistant to DDT.
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May God Bless everyone! Even those whom may not believe. I have some odds with the faith but I have never given up on it! I would like someone to explain the answer to my original question in more detail as I am still confused. ???
Incest is a sin, The bible is made by humans called the prophets thru God's divination. Though in some bible stories, incest was a common practice. Examples, Lot and his daughters, Noah's wife and His son, (I forgot the name of the son), and brothers marrying sisters like the time of Abraham...
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thats why there is a greater chance of retardation
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I draw my thoughts from my religion and since I don't follow any others nor do I actually really care I use what I personally know to back up my own thoughts.
You stated that religion and science can not coexist, I stated with backed up thoughts by my religion and using examples and citing references that they can. I see no difference in my doing that than anyone else. At least I used an example other than the typical "no you" argument.
Whoa, wait a minute. I did not say that religion and science cannot coexist. I referenced 2 publications/videos which most certainly says different. What I have a problem with is science trying to say we (man) came from some cosmic goo, fish, monkeys, etc. somewhere. Absurd. As far as the creation of man, God created man (Genesis).
Please read my posts as I gave examples also, but you chose to ignore them. You use your religion? Me too. I take the Bible quite literally. We both have an opinion. Your entitled to yours. You said that Science and Catholicism can exist in perfect harmony. I don't argue that point one bit.
How I believe (I'm not Catholic), do not believe as you. There are some very important questions of what science has come up with on some levels.
This thread is about incest in the Bible so we are both off topic.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Considering there are whites/Blacks/Asians/Latino/Native Americans and so on...we can see this story is False.
That wouldn't necessarily make the story false. It's not believing in evolution that makes it so obviously false.
Oh, and that's not "yet another attack on Christians," some Christians do believe in evolution.
I don't know of any Christian that believes in the Evolution theory. They do believe in science of discovery, and that science points to a Creator (Google: "A Case For A Creator" and "A Case for a Savior"). The more science delves into the human body, and the world around us, they realize that all this did not happen by chance, or evolved into who and what we are today.
Any Christian I know believes in the Creation Theory that is spoken of in the book of Genesis.....not evolution. There are many threads in "Debate and Discuss" that cover this extensively.....very extensively. If your interested, you can go read them for yourself. They are quite in depth.
Well I do. My Biology professor for example believes in evolution and he is Episcopalian. I'm pretty sure my parents both are. I've run into plenty on the internet.
Evolution A. doesn't say anything about how life was created (You can believe in evolution and still believe that God created everything) and B. has been proven to be FACT. It is happening as we type. Diseases are evolving to become resistant to more and more antibiotics. Fungi are evolving to become resistant to fungicides. Mosquitoes are evolving to become resistant to DDT.
Again......if you would read the posts, I gave 2 instances where the greatest scientific minds of our time set out to prove these very things we are talking about. It shows science pointing to a Creator. There is also a great website godnscience.com that is also very good at these questions. My last post also referred a couple of you to threads that go into this extensively. They are in the "Debate and Discuss" section, where this subject has been discussed to exhaustion. I have no wish to do it here in a thread about incest and the Bible. Check it out for yourself.
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Annella, this is a side note for you. Could you check this thread out: " I don't believe in the Devil or Hell "
Thanks! Btw, the dr. put me on another round of antibiotics today. I pray this time it works! Hope you are well! :)
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Annella, this is a side note for you. Could you check this thread out: " I don't believe in the Devil or Hell "
Thanks! Btw, the dr. put me on another round of antibiotics today. I pray this time it works! Hope you are well! :)
I'm writing you an email.......
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Actually, god forgot to mention that there was someone else before Eve to be with adam. He created them equally. Lilith was adam's equal but she refuse to be on the bottom. Adam had a hissy fit & god banished Her to earth turned her into a demon. Talk about totally sexist! So, to get adam a wife that he could control, he created another wife using adam's rib. Therefore, yes, eve is a copy of a copy & not as good. A lower version of the original. Yes, this is Incest if your wife is made of a part of you. You might as well be saying that you're wife is your twin sister. This is why I can't believe in the bible. Contradiction after contradiction in every area. You don't need to watch murder, incest, cheating, crimes on tv or in the movies. Just open the bible & you get it all uncensored. LoL.
If I had to chose between the two women I'd be Lilith any day. Since eve took the wife deal; women have suffered every which way, from rape, abuse, dying in child birth, having to give birth, sub-slave to men. It's still happening in the Middle east.(More hidden in America) Men can do anything but if a woman looks at another man beside her husband in the middle east, they're stoned to death or thrown out. Men can go whoring anytime go, home & infect his wife with diseases but if a woman starts a new relationship after the husband died long ago, she is jailed, charged for adultery ;if she starts a new relationship with a new man. Adam didn't do women any favors. If he was soooo lonely, god should have had him mate with the snake. LOL, GO LILITH!!!!!
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Actually, god forgot to mention that there was someone else before Eve to be with adam. He created them equally. Lilith was adam's equal but she refuse to be on the bottom. Adam had a hissy fit & god banished Her to earth turned her into a demon. Talk about totally sexist! So, to get adam a wife that he could control, he created another wife using adam's rib. Therefore, yes, eve is a copy of a copy & not as good. A lower version of the original. Yes, this is Incest if your wife is made of a part of you. You might as well be saying that you're wife is your twin sister. This is why I can't believe in the bible. Contradiction after contradiction in every area. You don't need to watch murder, incest, cheating, crimes on tv or in the movies. Just open the bible & you get it all uncensored. LoL.
If I had to chose between the two women I'd be Lilith any day. Since eve took the wife deal; women have suffered every which way, from rape, abuse, dying in child birth, having to give birth, sub-slave to men. It's still happening in the Middle east.(More hidden in America) Men can do anything but if a woman looks at another man beside her husband in the middle east, they're stoned to death or thrown out. Men can go whoring anytime go, home & infect his wife with diseases but if a woman starts a new relationship after the husband died long ago, she is jailed, charged for adultery ;if she starts a new relationship with a new man. Adam didn't do women any favors. If he was soooo lonely, god should have had him mate with the snake. LOL, GO LILITH!!!!!
You honestly can say you believe this? Wow. I thought your political beliefs were out there. This really takes the cake.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Actually, god forgot to mention that there was someone else before Eve to be with adam. He created them equally. Lilith was adam's equal but she refuse to be on the bottom. Adam had a hissy fit & god banished Her to earth turned her into a demon. Talk about totally sexist! So, to get adam a wife that he could control, he created another wife using adam's rib. Therefore, yes, eve is a copy of a copy & not as good. A lower version of the original. Yes, this is Incest if your wife is made of a part of you. You might as well be saying that you're wife is your twin sister. This is why I can't believe in the bible. Contradiction after contradiction in every area. You don't need to watch murder, incest, cheating, crimes on tv or in the movies. Just open the bible & you get it all uncensored. LoL.
If I had to chose between the two women I'd be Lilith any day. Since eve took the wife deal; women have suffered every which way, from rape, abuse, dying in child birth, having to give birth, sub-slave to men. It's still happening in the Middle east.(More hidden in America) Men can do anything but if a woman looks at another man beside her husband in the middle east, they're stoned to death or thrown out. Men can go whoring anytime go, home & infect his wife with diseases but if a woman starts a new relationship after the husband died long ago, she is jailed, charged for adultery ;if she starts a new relationship with a new man. Adam didn't do women any favors. If he was soooo lonely, god should have had him mate with the snake. LOL, GO LILITH!!!!!
You honestly can say you believe this? Wow. I thought your political beliefs were out there. This really takes the cake.
Oh yeah, this is some of the stuff that people believe.......and then they say the Bible isn't real ::) lol
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One thing that may help this discussion (of the original topic) is that our English translation of the original texts is faulty at best. For example, in Genesis, the original Hebrew has "adam" and / or "ha-adam" which in English can be translated into several different words: Adam (a male name), man / male, or human / humankind. Couple that with the lack of punctuation and capitalization in old Hebrew, and verse 1:26-27 can begin to be translated in a multitude of ways. One way would be to put more emphasis on God creating one human, called Adam, in His image and likeness, and later created the female counterpart:
26 And God said, `Let Us make Adam in Our image and likeness. Let him rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over everything that creeps on the earth.'
27 And God made Adam in His image, and in this image of God He prepared him. God created both a male and a female.
Others have argued that a better translation would be to translate the word "adam" in these instances as "humankind", and to keep verse 27 as one sentence instead of as two separate sentences:
26 And God said, `Let Us make humankind in Our image and likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over everything that creeps on the earth.'
27 And God made humankind in His image, and in the image of God He prepared [a person]*: a male and a female He prepared them.
I tend to agree more with this second translation. Not only does it place females in the same esteem as males of our species, it also shows that it was "humankind" itself that is in God's image and likeness, not just one person or one sex. That in order to understand what God is like, you have to know of all of humankind. If translated in this light, these verses suggest that God created humankind but never suggests that there was only one pair of humans that had to populate the world. If so, then there may not be any incest involved, unless you mapped families to very distant cousins. * the original translation uses the masculine pronoun for "adam", so the best translated English word is "him". But if trying to use the gender-neutral definition of "adam", then using a gender-neutral noun to refer to "humankind" is more appropriate. Hence the reason for "a person" being set apart by the square brackets.
Another great area of disagreement as to the translation of the Bible is in the word "created". On the one hand, this word can be thought of as "bringing into existence" or "creation ex nihilo". St. Thomas of Aquinas supports this version of translation. On the other hand, "created" can be translated as being "bringing about order from a chaotic mass" or "creation ex materia" -- a view supported by St. Augustine. Again I tend to agree with the second translation rather than the first. If the former semantic is used, then human's were "popped" into being out of nothing, giving rise to qon's view of God being a magician in the sky. However if the latter definition is used, then humans were "molded" from what already existed, allowing for our scientific explanation for the origin of our species -- that humankind was "made" out of the chaotic gene-pool of early primates, to give order to our genes such that both physical and mental acuity would be the "fittest" for a being's survival. I believe that this is what mattymatt was saying when stating that the Catholic church believes that religion and science can co-exist; that science says hows things happen, and religion says provides meaning and morality to our existence.
Again for the sake of discussion about incest, if the ex nihilo view is used, it suggests more of the "Adam and Eve" story of one couple being created out of nothing, and being told to populate the Earth (leading to the idea of incest). However, if the latter viewpoint is used, then humankind could have evolved from its primate ancestors, which may or may not be close family relatives, and being that we know the genetic troubles incest causes, the fittest beings probably were not offspring of an incestuous coupling.
One question that I've always wondered about looking at the literal translation of the Hebrew, esp. concerning these passages, is the use of the word "Elohim" which is translated into God. However it should more appropriately be translated as "gods" since "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloah". This plural version continues in the text where it says "`Let Us make humankind in Our image and likeness...'" Since Judaism (and by extension, Christianity) is a monotheistic religion, it is curious that the Bible uses the plural word for God suggesting a pantheon of gods were involved in the world's creation and not just one God.... Ok, I realize that's off topic as to incest in the Bible, but it's just something curious if trying to read the Bible literally which is what seems to be happening when presenting the question of incest to begin with.
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One thing that may help this discussion (of the original topic) is that our English translation of the original texts is faulty at best. For example, in Genesis, the original Hebrew has "adam" and / or "ha-adam" which in English can be translated into several different words: Adam (a male name), man / male, or human / humankind. Couple that with the lack of punctuation and capitalization in old Hebrew, and verse 1:26-27 can begin to be translated in a multitude of ways. One way would be to put more emphasis on God creating one human, called Adam, in His image and likeness, and later created the female counterpart:
26 And God said, `Let Us make Adam in Our image and likeness. Let him rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over everything that creeps on the earth.'
27 And God made Adam in His image, and in this image of God He prepared him. God created both a male and a female.
Others have argued that a better translation would be to translate the word "adam" in these instances as "humankind", and to keep verse 27 as one sentence instead of as two separate sentences:
26 And God said, `Let Us make humankind in Our image and likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over everything that creeps on the earth.'
27 And God made humankind in His image, and in the image of God He prepared [a person]*: a male and a female He prepared them.
I tend to agree more with this second translation. Not only does it place females in the same esteem as males of our species, it also shows that it was "humankind" itself that is in God's image and likeness, not just one person or one sex. That in order to understand what God is like, you have to know of all of humankind. If translated in this light, these verses suggest that God created humankind but never suggests that there was only one pair of humans that had to populate the world. If so, then there may not be any incest involved, unless you mapped families to very distant cousins. * the original translation uses the masculine pronoun for "adam", so the best translated English word is "him". But if trying to use the gender-neutral definition of "adam", then using a gender-neutral noun to refer to "humankind" is more appropriate. Hence the reason for "a person" being set apart by the square brackets.
Another great area of disagreement as to the translation of the Bible is in the word "created". On the one hand, this word can be thought of as "bringing into existence" or "creation ex nihilo". St. Thomas of Aquinas supports this version of translation. On the other hand, "created" can be translated as being "bringing about order from a chaotic mass" or "creation ex materia" -- a view supported by St. Augustine. Again I tend to agree with the second translation rather than the first. If the former semantic is used, then human's were "popped" into being out of nothing, giving rise to qon's view of God being a magician in the sky. However if the latter definition is used, then humans were "molded" from what already existed, allowing for our scientific explanation for the origin of our species -- that humankind was "made" out of the chaotic gene-pool of early primates, to give order to our genes such that both physical and mental acuity would be the "fittest" for a being's survival. I believe that this is what mattymatt was saying when stating that the Catholic church believes that religion and science can co-exist; that science says hows things happen, and religion says provides meaning and morality to our existence.
Again for the sake of discussion about incest, if the ex nihilo view is used, it suggests more of the "Adam and Eve" story of one couple being created out of nothing, and being told to populate the Earth (leading to the idea of incest). However, if the latter viewpoint is used, then humankind could have evolved from its primate ancestors, which may or may not be close family relatives, and being that we know the genetic troubles incest causes, the fittest beings probably were not offspring of an incestuous coupling.
One question that I've always wondered about looking at the literal translation of the Hebrew, esp. concerning these passages, is the use of the word "Elohim" which is translated into God. However it should more appropriately be translated as "gods" since "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloah". This plural version continues in the text where it says "`Let Us make humankind in Our image and likeness...'" Since Judaism (and by extension, Christianity) is a monotheistic religion, it is curious that the Bible uses the plural word for God suggesting a pantheon of gods were involved in the world's creation and not just one God.... Ok, I realize that's off topic as to incest in the Bible, but it's just something curious if trying to read the Bible literally which is what seems to be happening when presenting the question of incest to begin with.
First of all...what Bible are you reading from, and what are you using to translate into Hebrew (Old Testament)? Your post is correct in one sense that Adam and Eve were equal (humankind). Throughout the Bible, it will refer to the masculine word of "man" which in the Old Hebrew is humankind (one meaning) which includes woman also. ou do need the Hebrew translation (for the OT) and Greek (for the NT). One word can have different meanings considering what context it was written in and how it pertained to how the word was being used, or conversational context in scripture. If you study the Bible long enough, you will find that scripture interprets scripture.
However, in the 27th verse, you have added "a" as in He created "a" male and "a" female. It doesn't say that in the Bible (KJV). It says male and female created He them.
While the Bible does not give specifics if God created more humankind than Adam and Eve....it is possible as not to force humankind into incest. Also, you can read a verse that can literally have all past, present, and future prophesy in it. When God said "let us make man in our image, in the image of God made He them" (paraphrasing), He was actually talking to the Angels, and about His own Image to come (Jesus). Since God had no image until Jesus (no man hath seen God at any time). Then how could we have been made in the image of God? While we are bound by time parameters, God is not. He can see all past, present, and future all at once, and experience it as well. He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
There's something else that doesn't quite fit. If God formed man from the dust of the ground, and formed woman from the rib of man (and he most certainly did), why would he resort to forming other humankind from primates? As far as God popping people out, I feel that is insulting the miraculous Creator that He is. In other words, why would he create literally thousands of different species of plant, animal, fish, etc., after their kind, and then just reach into the primate gene pool to make more mankind. I don't buy it.
Lets keep men out of this like St Augustine, and St Thomas of Aquinas (who were they?) This sounds like another plug for Catholicism and I'm not Catholic nor choose to be, so I don't particularly accept the significance of their translations.
I also want to point out that a lot of Christian religions are tritheism, they believe in 3 (trinity). The Jews are Monotheistic in their belief in only one God. There are a few other organized Christian groups that are Monotheistic in their belief also. I myself believe there is only ONE God (Monotheism, or Oneness). There's much that can be said on this subject, but this is not what we are talking about. It is off topic.
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St. Thomas and St. Augustine were so influential in translation and interpretation of the bible, eliminating commentary from them would be nothing more than your dislike for Catholicism.
Christian religions are monotheistic in nature. One God in three persons does not create a new godlike power nor a 2nd or 3rd god.
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St. Thomas and St. Augustine were so influential in translation and interpretation of the bible, eliminating commentary from them would be nothing more than your dislike for Catholicism.
Christian religions are monotheistic in nature. One God in three persons does not create a new godlike power nor a 2nd or 3rd god.
There is no such thing as God in 3 bodily persons. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. There will only be ONE sitting on the throne. God has many manifestations. He is God in Creation, Son in Redemption, and the Holy Spirit in quickening/renewing. The same God. The burning bush to Moses, Pillar of fire, Pillar of smoke, etc. All manifestations, but the same God.
I use the King James Version of the Bible, Strong's Concordance (with Hebrew and Greek translations), various illustrated Bible dictionaries (Unger's is a favorite), and various Commentaries. However, if I find any teachings contrary to the Word of God, I leave it alone.
Mattymatt, you are the one who quoted your Pope to lend credence to your stance. I don't believe in the Pope. Doesn't mean I dislike him, you, or the family across the street. I went another way. Lets get back on topic shall we?
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well said annella- Keep doing the Lord's work
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You are so right, constance! :)
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Actually, god forgot to mention that there was someone else before Eve to be with adam. He created them equally. Lilith was adam's equal but she refuse to be on the bottom. Adam had a hissy fit & god banished Her to earth turned her into a demon. Talk about totally sexist! So, to get adam a wife that he could control, he created another wife using adam's rib. Therefore, yes, eve is a copy of a copy & not as good. A lower version of the original. Yes, this is Incest if your wife is made of a part of you. You might as well be saying that you're wife is your twin sister. This is why I can't believe in the bible. Contradiction after contradiction in every area. You don't need to watch murder, incest, cheating, crimes on tv or in the movies. Just open the bible & you get it all uncensored. LoL.
If I had to chose between the two women I'd be Lilith any day. Since eve took the wife deal; women have suffered every which way, from rape, abuse, dying in child birth, having to give birth, sub-slave to men. It's still happening in the Middle east.(More hidden in America) Men can do anything but if a woman looks at another man beside her husband in the middle east, they're stoned to death or thrown out. Men can go whoring anytime go, home & infect his wife with diseases but if a woman starts a new relationship after the husband died long ago, she is jailed, charged for adultery ;if she starts a new relationship with a new man. Adam didn't do women any favors. If he was soooo lonely, god should have had him mate with the snake. LOL, GO LILITH!!!!!
I tend to disagree with you on your "go Lilith" stance. Out of her anger, Lilith took it upon herself to kill children in their sleep, hence the term lullabyes. I'd choose Eve any day. By eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she chose knowledge and the possibility of pain and death over ignorance and immortality. Human beings cannot have both knowledge and immortality since it would make them too like g-d. Given the choice, regardless of anyone wants to call it sin, I'd eat the apple myself. This is where we see the strength in women... in their ability to make the difficult choices. This is why all the Eve-blame disappoints me.
http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Lilith/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sin_gene0.htm
On the other hand, though, we can't blame it all on men, either. The importance of our evolving as a human race is to take responsibility for our own actions rather than find someone to place the blame on. Quite honestly, the "go Lilith" viewpoint actually seems in line with Valerie Solanis and her S.C.U.M. Manifesto. There is enough bigotry, classism, sexism, racism, etc enough to be getting on with without adding more to the mix.
http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm
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well said annella- Keep doing the Lord's work
Thank you Constance. :wave:
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So the word 'Trinity' is NOT in the Bible, who cares? It all comes down to what you believe is 'correct' vs what others believe is 'correct'. Just because you/anyone might disagree and think that your interpretation is "the only one that is valid because of how YOU choose to interpret scripture in your particular sect" does NOT make it truth. The following is courtesy of CARM - a site that is quite willing to be openminded and not locked into the tunnel vision that far too many are.
Some critics of the Trinity doctrine claim that since the word "trinity" is not found in the Bible it isn't true. Furthermore, some assert that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have stated the doctrine clearly.
First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible that its concept is not taught therein. This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Instead, the person should look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.
Second, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible. For example, the word "bible" is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible. Likewise, "omniscience" which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence" which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence" which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God. We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true.
Following are other words that the Bible does not use but the concepts are mentioned. (my words here -I note there are many that have been written to death and used as 'point makers' by certain posters.):
•Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1).
•Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139.
•Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1,14).
•Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:eight).
•Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18).
So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument. Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear. Take a look at the book of Revelation. It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible. Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean. Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them.
Nevertheless, there are scriptures that demonstrate a Trinitarian aspect.
•Matt. 28:19, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
•2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
•Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
•Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."
*This post might fall under off-topic, but I have seen the 'non-trinity' argument one too many times.*
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Hi jordandog! :wave:
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First of all...what Bible are you reading from, and what are you using to translate into Hebrew (Old Testament)? Your post is correct in one sense that Adam and Eve were equal (humankind). Throughout the Bible, it will refer to the masculine word of "man" which in the Old Hebrew is humankind (one meaning) which includes woman also. ou do need the Hebrew translation (for the OT) and Greek (for the NT). One word can have different meanings considering what context it was written in and how it pertained to how the word was being used, or conversational context in scripture. If you study the Bible long enough, you will find that scripture interprets scripture.
However, in the 27th verse, you have added "a" as in He created "a" male and "a" female. It doesn't say that in the Bible (KJV). It says male and female created He them.
I am not Episcopalian / Anglican so I don't go entirely with KJV which was commissioned by a King to follow certain edicts of the Church of England in its translation. I'd rather go with more modern translations that go back to the original language and try to translate it without any interpretation, so that you can see the ambiguities (like the definition of "adam") and allow yourself or other theologians make the interpretations based on context and other writings / scripture. For the "quotes" I was trying to translate the Hebrew Mechanical translation of Genesis (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/genesis/index.html (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/genesis/index.html)) using their word morphologies as well as other translations found on the web. You are correct that the original Hebrew did not have the indefinite article "a", but rather is literally translated as: "and He will fatten Elohiym at the 'ha-adam' in image Him in image Elohiym He did fatten at him male and female He did fatten at them." (where "fatten" means to fill as in to fill a person with life, and image as meaning a likeness or copy but not necessarily a physical picture). I was not trying to translate anything into Hebrew, rather using the original Hebrew in translation into English. The Hebrew word "adam" does indeed have more than a single definition, which is why you are correct in saying that you need to look at context and other writings in order to get a full interpretation. But even with that, their are still opposing theories as to what is the "correct" translation. There are factions within Christianity that try to show that God favors males over females (God originally created man and later created woman, Jesus was a male person, and Jesus' apostles were all male, etc.), which is why I'd rather point out the Hebrew word (which is masculine in its declaration -- a foreign concept in English, but in other languages there are masculine, feminine, and neutral nouns which get different grammatical rules applied to each) and show all of its possible meanings.
Lets keep men out of this like St Augustine, and St Thomas of Aquinas (who were they?) This sounds like another plug for Catholicism and I'm not Catholic nor choose to be, so I don't particularly accept the significance of their translations.
Yes both of these theologians were Catholic, but that is because that was basically the only Christian religion at the time (at least for Augustine. For Thomas, Greek Orthodoxy was also practiced but not within the major European nations). Augustine of Hippo lived between 354-430 AD and was considered one of the most influential theologians in early Christianity. He was the one that originated our understanding and theories of "original sin", "divine grace", and "salvation". Thomas Aquinas lived from 1225 to 1274 AD and was also a major theologian of his time. He brought Aristotle's teleological argument (an argument for the existence of a supreme being based upon the logical order of the natural world) into Christianity in his 5th proof of the existence of God when he wrote his "Summa Theologica". It is partially this reason why he is a proponent of Creationism "ex nihilo" and is inspiration for the modern "Intelligent Design" theories.
Since both came before the reformation of the Catholic Church and because their theological ideas / theories had a profound impact on the Christian church as a whole, I think their viewpoints are very important when discussing theology, and it was not meant as a way to inject Catholicism into the discussion. It would be like ignoring Mozart on a discussion of musical theory because "I don't listen to classical music".
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Hi jordandog! :wave:
Hiya queen!! 8) I decided I had kept my 'trap' shut far too long, only because I was not interested in getting into any more non-arguments ;), but have followed this and a few other topics. I've been VERY busy with work and had to recertify my DEA and practice licensing, so that took up more hours. I probably won't be back on FC all the way (which may be good news to some, jk), but will jump in when I can. I have missed you and others a whole lot!
(It's also been interesting to see the transference of feelings toward me directed at a couple others since I haven't posted in ages. I guess it doesn't matter who has the 'disagreeing mouth', just that they have one, eh? Things that make you go Hmmmm......)
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First of all...what Bible are you reading from, and what are you using to translate into Hebrew (Old Testament)? Your post is correct in one sense that Adam and Eve were equal (humankind). Throughout the Bible, it will refer to the masculine word of "man" which in the Old Hebrew is humankind (one meaning) which includes woman also. ou do need the Hebrew translation (for the OT) and Greek (for the NT). One word can have different meanings considering what context it was written in and how it pertained to how the word was being used, or conversational context in scripture. If you study the Bible long enough, you will find that scripture interprets scripture.
However, in the 27th verse, you have added "a" as in He created "a" male and "a" female. It doesn't say that in the Bible (KJV). It says male and female created He them.
I am not Episcopalian / Anglican so I don't go entirely with KJV which was commissioned by a King to follow certain edicts of the Church of England in its translation. I'd rather go with more modern translations that go back to the original language and try to translate it without any interpretation, so that you can see the ambiguities (like the definition of "adam") and allow yourself or other theologians make the interpretations based on context and other writings / scripture. For the "quotes" I was trying to translate the Hebrew Mechanical translation of Genesis (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/genesis/index.html (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/genesis/index.html)) using their word morphologies as well as other translations found on the web. You are correct that the original Hebrew did not have the indefinite article "a", but rather is literally translated as: "and He will fatten Elohiym at the 'ha-adam' in image Him in image Elohiym He did fatten at him male and female He did fatten at them." (where "fatten" means to fill as in to fill a person with life, and image as meaning a likeness or copy but not necessarily a physical picture). I was not trying to translate anything into Hebrew, rather using the original Hebrew in translation into English. The Hebrew word "adam" does indeed have more than a single definition, which is why you are correct in saying that you need to look at context and other writings in order to get a full interpretation. But even with that, their are still opposing theories as to what is the "correct" translation. There are factions within Christianity that try to show that God favors males over females (God originally created man and later created woman, Jesus was a male person, and Jesus' apostles were all male, etc.), which is why I'd rather point out the Hebrew word (which is masculine in its declaration -- a foreign concept in English, but in other languages there are masculine, feminine, and neutral nouns which get different grammatical rules applied to each) and show all of its possible meanings.
Lets keep men out of this like St Augustine, and St Thomas of Aquinas (who were they?) This sounds like another plug for Catholicism and I'm not Catholic nor choose to be, so I don't particularly accept the significance of their translations.
Yes both of these theologians were Catholic, but that is because that was basically the only Christian religion at the time (at least for Augustine. For Thomas, Greek Orthodoxy was also practiced but not within the major European nations). Augustine of Hippo lived between 354-430 AD and was considered one of the most influential theologians in early Christianity. He was the one that originated our understanding and theories of "original sin", "divine grace", and "salvation". Thomas Aquinas lived from 1225 to 1274 AD and was also a major theologian of his time. He brought Aristotle's teleological argument (an argument for the existence of a supreme being based upon the logical order of the natural world) into Christianity in his 5th proof of the existence of God when he wrote his "Summa Theologica". It is partially this reason why he is a proponent of Creationism "ex nihilo" and is inspiration for the modern "Intelligent Design" theories.
I have to disagree with you here, but Catholicism was not the only religion practiced, even though they tried to be. The Apostolic church that was formed on the Day of Pentecost, is still alive today. and flourishing. In fact, many have tried to wipe it out, but God has always had a remnant. While I understand your history lesson, it's wrong. The newer versions of the Bible are not the oldest. The King James Version is one of the oldest, and coincides with the Dead Sea Scrolls found in the Qumran Caves in Israel near Engedi. What is the difference of you saying your theologians like Augustine and Thomas are correct, but those writings of the Apostles in the new Testament are wrong? While you knock KJV, you really should read what went into translating of the Word under his reign. There was no biased translation just for the Church of England.
While the JKV Translation is further translated with a good Hebrew and Greek Concordance, we get a good quality of reasoning about what the Lord was trying to say. Okay, you added an "a", which changed the whole meaning completely. Not trying to be nitpicky, but just that one letter changed the whole meaning of what could have been said. Do we know for sure that God made more people? For the 4th time....uh...no. Is it a Salvational issue? Not really. However, some things you have posted are actually spot on. It is a masculine presentation, but on further study, it actually encompasses all of humanity...woman also. That's why studying gives us a greater understanding of what we are reading. I haven't found anything in the KJV to contradict itself, even though it's been accused of such.
I do need to ask this because I really don't know. I was told that Catholics are discouraged to read the Bible, instead referred to books written by the Catholic church, and it's own saints as your interpretations of it? I found this interesting. is this common practice?
Since both came before the reformation of the Catholic Church, and because their theological ideas / theories had a profound impact on the Christian church as a whole, I think their viewpoints are very important when discussing theology, and it was not meant as a way to inject Catholicism into the discussion. It would be like ignoring Mozart on a discussion of musical theory because "I don't listen to classical music"
Well, to be honest, I've studied your history and how the Catholic religion was founded. While I reject your teachings and that Augustine and Thomas wrote other books about the existence of God, etc., doesn't mean that I don't agree with some of what you have to say. Whatever impact they had, was on the Catholic church as a whole, not the Christian church. I'm strictly Apostolic which adheres to the Apostles Doctrine in the Book of Acts. I know the Catholic church teaches that they were the first Christian church, but history does not bear that out Biblically. If we want to see the very beginning of the church and the Law, it was given to the Hebrew children on Mount Siani, and then progressed from there. The chosen people were the Jews, and through their bloodline was the Messiah born to cement the Christian church on the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Ghost was poured out after Christ arose and left. Telling them to return to Jerusalem and wait for the promise from on high (Holy Ghost). Actually, Apostle Paul was the first Evangelist to found churches (after the Holy Ghost had been poured out) in his travels.
I know you have your "saint's" and statues of people that hold special honorable mention to you as a Catholic, but to others that are not Catholic....not so much. People that lived and died for God, and the writings they left behind that are written in the Bible are our examples. There are books written galore by this one or the other about how the Bible should say this or that, but actually it stands on it's own. I can leave out Augustine and Thomas because to me they did not develop the Christian church. They most certainly developed the Catholic church. I'll give you that.
In the book of Acts, when the Apostles received the Holy Ghost, they spoke in tongues. Many churches teach that doesn't happen today because it was just for the Apostles. The Catholic church says this also. Well, people are still getting the Holy Ghost today with the same experience just like the Bible says. It is for everyone. I got it at 19. I've proved the Bible to be real in my life many times over. Not just some of it, but all. I can't uphold any religion, Minister, or movement of any kind that takes just a part of the Bible and not ALL of it.
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So because of your dislike of the Catholic church, you'll disregard what true historians wrote. That'd be like saying you think Aristotle was wrong because you dislike Greeks.
Catholics most certainly read the bible. And you'd be happy to know that if you went to mass every day for three years, you'd hear the ENTIRE bible read while at mass since the readings come strictly from the bible. The Christian churches come from The Holy Catholic Church.
"The church was founded in the early 1830's by Samuel Froehlich, a young seminary student in Switzerland, who had experienced a biblical conversion." Uhm 1830 that's not when Pentecost was. I'm seeing other websites saying founding in 1904 in Britain. I've read three sites now of different churches and all of them have different things listed as well as different beliefs.
That's my one major issue with Protostants, they claim they're the true church, yet there is major differences in between the churches let alone none of them are close to being the same with regards to dogma. Closest that I can find is the PCA that doesn't route itself in Anglican beliefs. The fact that Catholics have one church, that the mass no matter where you are in the world is the same mass at your local parish.
The KJV of the bible, is missing books. Luther when he wrote his version decided to eliminate the apocryphal books even though they've been found to be translated. It's been translated and translated and retranslated over and over and over again and you have your KJV. Pastors read what they want on a Sunday, and then talk about it in a sermon. There is no true head of it, so how can you even talk about Catholics being wrong with You are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, with no head of it, how can there be a church? Jesus didn't go around to 10,000 plus people and say build it here or here or there.
Regardless, by eliminating what the doctors of the church wrote from even consideration just says about you that you'd rather eliminate good writings due to you thinking that Catholics as a whole are wrong.
Your thoughts on the Communion of Saints, is just wrong, we don't hold them above anyone else and the best way I can explain it to someone is this.
Say your mom or another loved one is sick, you would have no problem asking your congregation to pray for you would you? So you're saying that loved ones that have gone to Heaven no longer care about you? That they would no longer want to pray for your healing? That they would just rather live eternity not caring? All us as Catholics believe is that once a person has obtained the gift of being in Heaven, that they would continue to pray for us however; not being left to the finite limitations of earth. No where in that is praying directly to them and this includes Mary. Statues are just because they're beautiful things. God's house should be a beautiful place. Does it need to be? No, but does it make it prettier sure. Mass can be held anywhere, and believe me after being deployed to some of the far corners of the world, it has been anywhere.
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So because of your dislike of the Catholic church, you'll disregard what true historians wrote. That'd be like saying you think Aristotle was wrong because you dislike Greeks.
Catholics most certainly read the bible. And you'd be happy to know that if you went to mass every day for three years, you'd hear the ENTIRE bible read while at mass since the readings come strictly from the bible. The Christian churches come from The Holy Catholic Church.
"The church was founded in the early 1830's by Samuel Froehlich, a young seminary student in Switzerland, who had experienced a biblical conversion." Uhm 1830 that's not when Pentecost was. I'm seeing other websites saying founding in 1904 in Britain. I've read three sites now of different churches and all of them have different things listed as well as different beliefs.
That's my one major issue with Protostants, they claim they're the true church, yet there is major differences in between the churches let alone none of them are close to being the same with regards to dogma. Closest that I can find is the PCA that doesn't route itself in Anglican beliefs. The fact that Catholics have one church, that the mass no matter where you are in the world is the same mass at your local parish.
The KJV of the bible, is missing books. Luther when he wrote his version decided to eliminate the apocryphal books even though they've been found to be translated. It's been translated and translated and retranslated over and over and over again and you have your KJV. Pastors read what they want on a Sunday, and then talk about it in a sermon. There is no true head of it, so how can you even talk about Catholics being wrong with You are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, with no head of it, how can there be a church? Jesus didn't go around to 10,000 plus people and say build it here or here or there.
Regardless, by eliminating what the doctors of the church wrote from even consideration just says about you that you'd rather eliminate good writings due to you thinking that Catholics as a whole are wrong.
Your thoughts on the Communion of Saints, is just wrong, we don't hold them above anyone else and the best way I can explain it to someone is this.
Say your mom or another loved one is sick, you would have no problem asking your congregation to pray for you would you? So you're saying that loved ones that have gone to Heaven no longer care about you? That they would no longer want to pray for your healing? That they would just rather live eternity not caring? All us as Catholics believe is that once a person has obtained the gift of being in Heaven, that they would continue to pray for us however; not being left to the finite limitations of earth. No where in that is praying directly to them and this includes Mary. Statues are just because they're beautiful things. God's house should be a beautiful place. Does it need to be? No, but does it make it prettier sure. Mass can be held anywhere, and believe me after being deployed to some of the far corners of the world, it has been anywhere.
Oh no, you have it wrong. True Historians? True? Historians are all good if they follow the Biblical lines, however some do not, and get out into false doctrine that you cannot recognize anything Biblical about it. I study a lot of Jewish history and older scribes writings though, and they have lined up Biblically. Uh, I came out of the Lutheran movement at 19 which is just a baby step away from being a Catholic. Yes, some of the services and masses in that church were very similar to Catholic masses. However, in the church I'm in today we don't even resemble the Catholic church and yes, shun their teachings of praying to statues, purgatory, worshipping saints, among other things. I'm sorry, but I have seen you light candles in front of statues and pray to them. Unless your a different sect that I haven't heard about.
If you have heard the Bible read all the way through at mass, then you should remember the Book of Acts. The whole Book of Acts is the start of the Christian church. The church was not started in the 1820's. Maybe yours was, but mine started a long time before that. So your saying that the Pentecost in the Bible is not the start of the Christian church? I rest my case. Pentecost is Jewish, and still is a Jewish observance, and was, when Peter stood up and gave the message of redemption after they had all been filled with the Holy Ghost in the upper room (btw, Mary the mother of Jesus got the same Holy Ghost then). That's how come there were so many from different languages there and heard the Glories of God spoken in their own tongue. I'm only using the Day of Pentecost during that Biblical time when the Christian church got started. Yes, Jesus said Peter was the rock upon He would build His church. Who stood up on the Day of Pentecost and gave the redemption message? Peter! However, Christ (who is God) is the Head of the church, and always was, and always will be......not Peter. Peter got up and told them how to be saved after they were pricked (conviction) in their heart (Acts 3:37), then in Acts 2:38, came the plan of Salvation: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That was the start of the church after Blood redemption. The early early church was the Tabernacle in the wilderness when God handed the Law to Moses and established the types and shadows of what was to come.
My grandmother's prayers that she prayed for me live forever. That I believe. All the prayers that are said live forever before God. However, when I pray for someone's healing, I bypass everyone else and enter into the Throne Room and talk straight to Jesus (who is God in bodily form). I don't have to talk to a buffer between him and I. Especially someone that has previously died. We don't know what their soul knows after death. I know they are at rest. I would no more waste my time talking to someone who died previously to get a message to God for me. The flesh of Jesus Christ is the mediator between God and man who declares the Lord God bodily. I'm His daughter and can boldly approach him with my petitions in prayer. Neither do I repent, or tell my sins to any man on earth because there is no man on earth who can forgive sins. I repent straight to God who is "just" to forgive my sins if I repent. It's already been taken care of on Calvary with the Blood of Atonement. There is no "penance" to perform, just forgiveness.
Oh I've heard the same thing that all the books in the Bible were not included. They are adding to the Word of God, and the Bible says not to do that. Other movements also do that. They have their own books and creeds and other philosophies that are just "out there", and there is no Biblical backing whatsoever in what they have introduced into their assemblies. I've already had discussions about the book of Enoch, etc, etc. Not pertinent to the Bible. So your saying that God wasn't adept enough to get all the books of the Bible together, but forgot some. I don't buy it.
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
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So the word 'Trinity' is NOT in the Bible, who cares? It all comes down to what you believe is 'correct' vs what others believe is 'correct'. Just because you/anyone might disagree and think that your interpretation is "the only one that is valid because of how YOU choose to interpret scripture in your particular sect" does NOT make it truth. The following is courtesy of CARM - a site that is quite willing to be openminded and not locked into the tunnel vision that far too many are.
Some critics of the Trinity doctrine claim that since the word "trinity" is not found in the Bible it isn't true. Furthermore, some assert that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have stated the doctrine clearly.
First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible that its concept is not taught therein. This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Instead, the person should look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.
Second, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible. For example, the word "bible" is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible. Likewise, "omniscience" which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence" which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence" which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God. We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true.
Following are other words that the Bible does not use but the concepts are mentioned. (my words here -I note there are many that have been written to death and used as 'point makers' by certain posters.):
•Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1).
•Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139.
•Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1,14).
•Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:eight).
•Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18).
So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument. Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear. Take a look at the book of Revelation. It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible. Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean. Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them.
Nevertheless, there are scriptures that demonstrate a Trinitarian aspect.
•Matt. 28:19, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
•2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
•Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
•Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."
*This post might fall under off-topic, but I have seen the 'non-trinity' argument one too many times.*
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost? Isn't God the Father? Yes, and the Holy Ghost also.
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy, great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into Glory.
Is this scripture about God or Jesus? Both, they are ONE.
Colossions 2:8-10 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.
So in Jesus body is the Godhead? Yes!
II Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world (satan) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus is the IMAGE of God? Yes, looking at Jesus, is seeing God!
Colossians 1:12-15 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us unto the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Jesus is the image of the invisible God? Yes!
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made. V 14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word was God, and was made flesh? Yes!
Isaiah 43: 10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no Savior.
But I thought Jesus was our Savior? God, who is Jesus, is our Savior.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
The Name (singular) of the 3 titles. I'm a mother, preacher, woman, teacher, Christian, daughter, etc., but none of those titles is my name.
Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
That's why I'm baptized in Jesus Name, which is the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the Spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Only 1 throne, and only ONE sat upon it.
Revelation 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus saying he is the first and the last? Only God is Alpha and Omega (read Isaiah 43:10-11 again above)
In laymens terms: God made himself a body to reconcile man unto himself. God is invisible, and when we see Jesus, we will see the image of God in heaven through Jesus Christ. Or those who are saved. When Jesus is noted as God's son, it is referring to his flesh. Some scriptures refer to all 3 attributes (body, soul, spirit) but they are only in Jesus bodily....ONE GOD the word Jesus in the hebrew means Jehovah Savior, or Jehovah has become our Salvation.
The revelation of who Jesus really is, is spiritual revelation. You cannot separate the 3. They crucified Jesus for a reason. What was it? Jesus basically told them he was God manifested in the flesh. They would not accept Jesus as their Messiah, and crucified Him.
I have about 40 more scriptures I can list if anybody wants them. I can't write them all out. This is a full 3 day seminar on the One God revelation.
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You obviously didn't read a damn word I wrote.
I even explained the communion of saints and statues. You obviously have a hatred for all things Catholic that you can't even correctly read a post that lays out and explains.
YOUR church was created in the 1800s.
READ -> COMPREHEND -> POST.
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You obviously didn't read a damn word I wrote.
I even explained the communion of saints and statues. You obviously have a hatred for all things Catholic that you can't even correctly read a post that lays out and explains.
YOUR church was created in the 1800s.
READ -> COMPREHEND -> POST.
Whoa, I have no idea why your getting so hot. I do not "hate" anything or anybody. I've never once said such, but you have accused me of it twice now. Did I say something wrong about the Catholic religion in what I've learned over the years? I most certainly did read your post and commented on it.
I also mentioned the outpouring of the Holy Ghost and that people can still get that gift today just like the Bible says, however, you said nothing about that. I was trying to find out what your church thinks about that.
You said the statues were for beautification of the church. I answered that I've seen people light candles in front of statues and then pray to the statue. Is that what made you mad? I also explained further that we don't pray to the dead or dearly departed, and we don't believe in purgatory. Those practices are not in the Bible.
You brought up the fact that you were Catholic. I haven't brought up what denomination I am, because of the very reason your exhibiting now. You don't know me so how can you be so judgmental that I hate this or that?
I don't believe in baptizing infants either, and more denominations than just the Catholic church does that. Does that mean I hate them? Get real!
Did swearing make you feel better?
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
Ya know......you have popped in and out of this thread, and haven't really said anything substantial, but to throw out barbs or what have you. It's really immature and childish.
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Serious question Annella... I read jordandogs post above (hi :wave: jordandog) and I've always believed in the Trinity. I read your post that followed hers and was wondering ... with those examples, wouldn't that mean Jesus was going around talking to Himself in the N.T. when He spoke of or to His Father? ( examples: Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34 New International Version) "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name"[/ (Matt 6:9 KJV) Jesus said to pray to God the Father but didn't say to pray to God the Son (Jesus) or God the Holy Ghost.) ???
Jesus was our example and teacher when he walked on earth, he was teaching us how to pray, etc. When you read His words, you need to ask yourself is He speaking in the humanity (pray to the Father). Or deity (I saw satan falling as lightning from the sky, or before Abraham was, I am). Peter asked Jesus, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied. Jesus said: have I been so long with you, and you still don't know me? I know I'm paraphrasing, but you know which portion of scripture I'm referring to. He came right out and said one time.....I and the Father are one. Jesus couldn't say pray to me on earth. He was not glorified until His death, burial, resurrection and ascention into Heaven. Calling it God the Father, God the son, God the Holy Ghost, is still making a separation. Your talking about God.....ONE person only bodily.
Here's a good example. On the cross, when Jesus cried out. "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me". What was that? Since God cannot die, He is an invisible Spirit (He is alive forevermore), He had to leave the body so the flesh could die. After three days, God took His body back again and rose.
When you totally understand that God Himself took on lowly flesh to experience everything we do. To make a way to redeem us back to Him, and to fellowship as we do, it makes you love Him that much more when you realize that He made Himself a human body to be like us (as much as he could).
When we get to Heaven, we will not see an old patriarch, a bearded Jesus, and a bird flying around as the Holy Ghost. We will see God in the form of Jesus, who is God. Remember Jesus telling the Disciples that if he doesn't go away that the Comforter (Holy Ghost) could not come? Because they were all ONE. My Father and I will come and will make our abode with you is another example.
We are body, soul, and spirit. body=flesh, soul=eternal, spirit=what makes us what we are (our character). That actually is ONE person.
Sheryl, I understand your questions and don't mind at all. I was raised trinity all my life. God will open your understanding, and reveal Himself who He really is, if you keep your heart open. The Bible does say "Great is the mystery".
I teach this in a series of studies, and don't like to jump around like this. However, you have Bible understanding, and can fit the scriptures together yourself. All through Revelation (which is highly symbolic). You have only ONE on the Throne, over and over again. Who is it? It's Jesus, God our Savior.
I apologize for the misspelled words, and probably poor layout. I'm writing this very fast as there is other pressing business I have to attend to. I wanted to get something down for you.
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
Ya know......you have popped in and out of this thread, and haven't really said anything substantial, but to throw out barbs or what have you. It's really immature and childish.
I have said something substantial. You responded without understanding what I had posted and then when I responded your response was something along the lines of "You didn't read what I said!" When I certainly did, and you just made me convinced that you didn't read what I said. You clearly had no idea what you were talking about but still insisted on writing an ESSAY about how I was wrong. If anything is immature, it's that. And that is why I didn't even bother with it.
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
Ya know......you have popped in and out of this thread, and haven't really said anything substantial, but to throw out barbs or what have you. It's really immature and childish.
I have said something substantial. You responded without understanding what I had posted and then when I responded your response was something along the lines of "You didn't read what I said!" When I certainly did, and you just made me convinced that you didn't read what I said. You clearly had no idea what you were talking about but still insisted on writing an ESSAY about how I was wrong. If anything is immature, it's that. And that is why I didn't even bother with it.
Uh, if the above is an "ESSAY", then essays have certainly changed since I've been back to school. However....news flash, this is a public forum where things are posted. I don't know what you think you are gaining by this hissy fit your throwing, but you have (in this thread) accused me of deleting my posts, when in actuality I only deleted one, because I made a mistake posting to another person in error and was correcting it. You come in every 10 or so posts to flame me to someone I'm talking to or to say something negative about me, and I have no idea why. Get over yourself and move on. You are acting immature. Now, get rid of the resentment over whatever you thought I did. Grow up.
You didn't bother with it? Uh, then why are you posting to me and others about me then? Get over it and move on. Whatever substantial thing you wrote that you think I didn't read is not the end of the world. I post to a lot of people in here and I might miss something. However, I went back and read through this thread and I issued an apology to you for an error. Really, let it drop or grow up, preferably both.
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
Ya know......you have popped in and out of this thread, and haven't really said anything substantial, but to throw out barbs or what have you. It's really immature and childish.
I have said something substantial. You responded without understanding what I had posted and then when I responded your response was something along the lines of "You didn't read what I said!" When I certainly did, and you just made me convinced that you didn't read what I said. You clearly had no idea what you were talking about but still insisted on writing an ESSAY about how I was wrong. If anything is immature, it's that. And that is why I didn't even bother with it.
Uh, if the above is an "ESSAY", then essays have certainly changed since I've been back to school. However....news flash, this is a public forum where things are posted. I don't know what you think you are gaining by this hissy fit your throwing, but you have (in this thread) accused me of deleting my posts, when in actuality I only deleted one, because I made a mistake posting to another person in error and was correcting it. You come in every 10 or so posts to flame me to someone I'm talking to or to say something negative about me, and I have no idea why. Get over yourself and move on. You are acting immature. Now, get rid of the resentment over whatever you thought I did. Grow up.
You didn't bother with it? Uh, then why are you posting to me and others about me then? Get over it and move on. Whatever substantial thing you wrote that you think I didn't read is not the end of the world. I post to a lot of people in here and I might miss something. However, I went back and read through this thread and I issued an apology to you for an error. Really, let it drop or grow up, preferably both.
How is what I'm doing throwing a hissyfit exactly? I haven't flamed you once. I was irritated that you deleted the post because it was quoting myself if you didn't notice, and I don't even care about it now. Nothing I've said has been flaming or throwing a hissyfit. It's not that you didn't read or understand my post, it's that you decided to respond with another two walls of text without reading or understanding it, and now you're apparently doing the same thing to someone else.
Honestly, I feel like you're not reading what you yourself type. You keep stressing that these people are the "GREATEST SCIENTIFIC MINDS" like you don't even realize that that is 100% opinion, but then you nitpick someone else for saying "true historians."
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@MattyMatt: Seriously, she disagrees with whatever anyone says. Not worth bothering. She made it clear that she doesn't understand what evolution means, but she insists that it's not real. And she poked fun at other people's beliefs after whining about how Christians always get attacked on here and they're SO persecuted. You can find a better way to spend your time.
Ya know......you have popped in and out of this thread, and haven't really said anything substantial, but to throw out barbs or what have you. It's really immature and childish.
I have said something substantial. You responded without understanding what I had posted and then when I responded your response was something along the lines of "You didn't read what I said!" When I certainly did, and you just made me convinced that you didn't read what I said. You clearly had no idea what you were talking about but still insisted on writing an ESSAY about how I was wrong. If anything is immature, it's that. And that is why I didn't even bother with it.
Uh, if the above is an "ESSAY", then essays have certainly changed since I've been back to school. However....news flash, this is a public forum where things are posted. I don't know what you think you are gaining by this hissy fit your throwing, but you have (in this thread) accused me of deleting my posts, when in actuality I only deleted one, because I made a mistake posting to another person in error and was correcting it. You come in every 10 or so posts to flame me to someone I'm talking to or to say something negative about me, and I have no idea why. Get over yourself and move on. You are acting immature. Now, get rid of the resentment over whatever you thought I did. Grow up.
You didn't bother with it? Uh, then why are you posting to me and others about me then? Get over it and move on. Whatever substantial thing you wrote that you think I didn't read is not the end of the world. I post to a lot of people in here and I might miss something. However, I went back and read through this thread and I issued an apology to you for an error. Really, let it drop or grow up, preferably both.
How is what I'm doing throwing a hissyfit exactly? I haven't flamed you once. I was irritated that you deleted the post because it was quoting myself if you didn't notice, and I don't even care about it now. Nothing I've said has been flaming or throwing a hissyfit. It's not that you didn't read or understand my post, it's that you decided to respond with another two walls of text without reading or understanding it, and now you're apparently doing the same thing to someone else.
Honestly, I feel like you're not reading what you yourself type. You keep stressing that these people are the "GREATEST SCIENTIFIC MINDS" like you don't even realize that that is 100% opinion, but then you nitpick someone else for saying "true historians."
Uh.....it's not 100% opinion. Have you seen the videos "A Case for a Creator" and "The Case For a Savior"? I can answer that for you......no If you had, you would not have made such a statement they are "100% opinion".
Mr. Lee Strobel, who is a world renowned Journalist with the NYT, was a confirmed atheist. His wife became a Christian, and he set out to prove her wrong (scientifically I might add) that there was no God, and that Evolution was the only explanation of the earth/species. He went to the greatest scientific minds of our time, and he wrote what he found out.
I'm going to say something here and your not going to like it. Whatever contribution you think you made to this thread, was not important enough for me to respond much to. Anyone can go back over this thread and see that you were not a part of the "meat' of this thread, no matter how much you are trying to be now. Here's a news flash. If I accidently picked up your post to quote from, and then realized that I made a mistake, because your quote had nothing to do with what I wanted to address, I can delete it....that's my choice, and I don't need your permission to do so.
I'm done here.
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I was sitting reading the bible one night I read all the way through Noah and the Arc. Well In the days that God made Adam and Eve, he made other people, animals, day night, all life right? Well he found that the world was corrupt in the days of Noah and his family so he found favor in Noah and had the ark animals and Noah his wife, his sons and their wifes. My question is what happened when God only left these people isn't there incest in order to repopulate the world? Doesn't that mean that we are all related and descendents from Noah? So are we marrying our kin? I don't mean to offend anybody just a few questions I though would be good to clarify. :angel12:
Actually, god forgot to mention that there was someone else before Eve to be with adam. He created them equally. Lilith was adam's equal but she refuse to be on the bottom. Adam had a hissy fit & god banished Her to earth turned her into a demon. Talk about totally sexist! So, to get adam a wife that he could control, he created another wife using adam's rib. Therefore, yes, eve is a copy of a copy & not as good. A lower version of the original. Yes, this is Incest if your wife is made of a part of you. You might as well be saying that you're wife is your twin sister. This is why I can't believe in the bible. Contradiction after contradiction in every area. You don't need to watch murder, incest, cheating, crimes on tv or in the movies. Just open the bible & you get it all uncensored. LoL.
If I had to chose between the two women I'd be Lilith any day. Since eve took the wife deal; women have suffered every which way, from rape, abuse, dying in child birth, having to give birth, sub-slave to men. It's still happening in the Middle east.(More hidden in America) Men can do anything but if a woman looks at another man beside her husband in the middle east, they're stoned to death or thrown out. Men can go whoring anytime go, home & infect his wife with diseases but if a woman starts a new relationship after the husband died long ago, she is jailed, charged for adultery ;if she starts a new relationship with a new man. Adam didn't do women any favors. If he was soooo lonely, god should have had him mate with the snake. LOL, GO LILITH!!!!!
I tend to disagree with you on your "go Lilith" stance. Out of her anger, Lilith took it upon herself to kill children in their sleep, hence the term lullabyes. I'd choose Eve any day. By eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she chose knowledge and the possibility of pain and death over ignorance and immortality. Human beings cannot have both knowledge and immortality since it would make them too like g-d. Given the choice, regardless of anyone wants to call it sin, I'd eat the apple myself. This is where we see the strength in women... in their ability to make the difficult choices. This is why all the Eve-blame disappoints me.
http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Lilith/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sin_gene0.htm
On the other hand, though, we can't blame it all on men, either. The importance of our evolving as a human race is to take responsibility for our own actions rather than find someone to place the blame on. Quite honestly, the "go Lilith" viewpoint actually seems in line with Valerie Solanis and her S.C.U.M. Manifesto. There is enough bigotry, classism, sexism, racism, etc enough to be getting on with without adding more to the mix.
http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm
I don't think it was Lilith's fault that she became a monster. After god altered her, in favor of the Adam's whining about the woman that was his equal. I see Lilith as an early form of women 's rights. As for Eve, I think she got the crappy end of the deal & god should have mated adam with the snake! Because that's how I see adam, a real big snake! Anyway, the question was is there incest in the bible & what do you think? Well, if you mated with your own Rib, yes, it's incest & yes we are all brothers & sisters because Adam literary SCREWED HIMSELF!!!!! The answer to the question is YES THERE IS TONS OF INCEST SPEWING, COVER TO COVER IN THE BIBLE. And that's all I'm doing, answering the question.
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what is a bible? some kind of sex toy? ........ haha jk just some flame fuel.
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Wow. People are so full of hate!
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:peace: :peace: :peace: everybody! love..love...love