Please explain Noah's Ark to me ...

[jaba187]

If you read the bible then it will tell you everything

False

[dexterjrh]

Have you ever heard the word "faith"?

Yes.

Faith is believing in something from the heart when your head tells you otherwise.

And this is a good thing for what reason?

All Christians have to do is believe what the word of God tells us. We don't have to have proof.

In other words, you don't have the challenge a book written and edited countless times at the hands of ignorant people with corrupt agendas...

Many scientists have tried to prove the flood happened and have succeeded in gathering infomation but haven't PROVED it yet.

And it should be treated as if it hasn't been proven yet (ie questioned, challenged, doubted, etc.).  Why?  Because it hasn't been proven, as you so clearly state.

If we have to prove everything the Bible says, which by the way was given to us by the "All-Knowing", that would mean we would be on the same level with God, and He says we cannot be nor will we ever be "all-knowing".

Clearly the men who wrote the Bible knew what to write and how to describe events, and thus in some fashion must have been knowledgeable about all the events (how else could they have written it).  Or they made stuff up (I choose this one).

Those are questions that we will have to wait to have answered, and they will be answered.

They will likely be answered by the people who are looking for the rational answers, not by the people proclaiming the answers shouldn't even be looked for.

In the meantime, Christians don't have to prove anything to Man, just as non-believers and Agnostics don't have to prove to us why what we have faith in is "untrue". 

The burden of proof is on you, however.  The burden of proof is not on the individual who says your claim is irrational and baseless.  If you want to make extraordinary claims, be prepared to provide extraordinary evidence supporting those claims.  Otherwise, you have nothing and can't complain when people point that out.

I am not Telling anyone how to Believe or to Believe. Everyone here could sit here and debate this all day. The kind of Proof you want as if you want God Himself to appear out of the clouds and say hey i am God Believe in me. One day that will happen but not today. I see these topics up all the time on here, so either others want to know more about God or just want to Debate with others.

[liljp617]

Have you ever heard the word "faith"?

Yes.

Faith is believing in something from the heart when your head tells you otherwise.

And this is a good thing for what reason?

All Christians have to do is believe what the word of God tells us. We don't have to have proof.

In other words, you don't have the challenge a book written and edited countless times at the hands of ignorant people with corrupt agendas...

Many scientists have tried to prove the flood happened and have succeeded in gathering infomation but haven't PROVED it yet.

And it should be treated as if it hasn't been proven yet (ie questioned, challenged, doubted, etc.).  Why?  Because it hasn't been proven, as you so clearly state.

If we have to prove everything the Bible says, which by the way was given to us by the "All-Knowing", that would mean we would be on the same level with God, and He says we cannot be nor will we ever be "all-knowing".

Clearly the men who wrote the Bible knew what to write and how to describe events, and thus in some fashion must have been knowledgeable about all the events (how else could they have written it).  Or they made stuff up (I choose this one).

Those are questions that we will have to wait to have answered, and they will be answered.

They will likely be answered by the people who are looking for the rational answers, not by the people proclaiming the answers shouldn't even be looked for.

In the meantime, Christians don't have to prove anything to Man, just as non-believers and Agnostics don't have to prove to us why what we have faith in is "untrue". 

The burden of proof is on you, however.  The burden of proof is not on the individual who says your claim is irrational and baseless.  If you want to make extraordinary claims, be prepared to provide extraordinary evidence supporting those claims.  Otherwise, you have nothing and can't complain when people point that out.

so either others want to know more about God or just want to Debate with others.

Or want to combat the atrocities and annoyances religion propagates on a daily basis by attacking the root of the issue (moderate religion).  Or want to challenge the baseless notion that blindly believing in something because you're told to is a good attribute to have.  Or want to simply make people think about what it is they claim.  Or hope that one day someone will actually bring something to the table even slightly proving their claim.

So on and so forth.  There are plenty of reasons to discuss religion.  It is one of the biggest factors in everyone's life on a daily basis, regardless of denomination or lack there of.

[rn4bama]

liljp617 and falconer02:  Why are you so defensive about what I wrote? Why do you feel you have to tear my comments into pieces and dispute sentence by sentence? This forum asked a question and I simply answered from my point of view. Maybe I shouldn't have spoken for all Christians, I was wrong to do that, but these are my beliefs and I thought I could voice them here without being judged. I didn't judge you or anything you had to say or anyone else for that matter. I didn't come on here to debate with anyone. I simply stated what I believe just as you did. You seem so angry and I don't know why. I happen to have strong Christian values and am comfortable knowing, without question, where I will spend eternity. I voiced thoughts in a public forum where both of you certainly have the right to do whatever you want with them. If you are so comfortable with your own destiny, then why are you being so aggressive and intent on disproving what I believe to be true? I knew when I wrote what I did that some people would disagree which is to be expected. But I didn't expect to participate, sharing my point of view, and be ripped apart so disrespectfully.

[eSineM]

I really shouldn't be responding to this because I am so sad at what I'm reading. Have you ever heard the word "faith"? Faith is believing in something from the heart when your head tells you otherwise. All Christians have to do is believe what the word of God tells us. We don't have to have proof. Many scientists have tried to prove the flood happened and have succeeded in gathering infomation but haven't PROVED it yet. If we have to prove everything the Bible says, which by the way was given to us by the "All-Knowing", that would mean we would be on the same level with God, and He says we cannot be nor will we ever be "all-knowing". Those are questions that we will have to wait to have answered, and they will be answered. In the meantime, Christians don't have to prove anything to Man, just as non-believers and Agnostics don't have to prove to us why what we have faith in is "untrue". 

The problem with Faith is the question as to where it comes from. If you want to talk about Faith in a "higher force" or even some "almighty being" thats your choice. However when it comes to the bible, you really are not relying on your own faith. You are reading other human beings tell stories and they convince you to believe in their stories. If the bible was not there, you would still have faith maybe in a higher power.. however you wouldnt have 'faith' in Jesus Christ, or anything else in the bible unless you first read it. So you are now putting this power of faith in the hands of mere mortals, humans. As for proving or disproving, you generally cannot prove something untrue. This is always the case, the burden of proof lands on the person making the claim. Anyone can say "we all live in a giant petrie dish, or santa clause is really God in disguise. These things cannot be proven, and thats why they would not be taken seriously. What your basically saying when you ask people to have faith in the bible is. "Do not have faith in everyone elses book which contradicts ours, even though this book has just as much fact and information as any other, this one is the one you should be faithful too" and this would be told to you by a mere mortal... So you faith is in that mortal, not in a god. If you faith was truly in a god or whatever else you would like to call a higher force, then you wouldnt need the bible and all these false idols in a church or a book. As for faith, Im sure most people already are aware of what faith does... Read about Rev. Jim Jones and his cool aid, or David Koresh and his followers... there was heavens gate... there was Charlie Manson... All these people got their victims for only one reason, they all had "faith" in him and what he spoke... they believed it was from a higher power, and had no proof, just faith... and they ended up dead. Thats what faith can do when its put into a human or a book written by a human.

[rn4bama]

eSineM: I hear what you are saying but am happy to agree to disagree. I must say though will all due respect, man didn't write the Bible. OK. He held the quill or whatever it was. God actually wrote the Bible. He used various persons as vehicles to copy his words. Secondly, I never said I have faith in the Bible. The Bible albeit Holy, is a book and you don't have faith in something tangible. I read the Bible because that's what He wants me to do. I have faith in my God and the promises he has made to me. I know he will do what He says he will do because I have faith. The same is true if you tell a friend "I have faith in you". You don't actually have faith in an object i.e. person, but you have faith in the intangible: their actions that will lead them to the end they desire. As for the Bible, it serves as a "road map" that directs me in the direction I should go, tells me what I need to do to serve God and live my life as faithfully as possible, no matter how seriously flawed I am as a human.

[dexterjrh]

eSineM: I hear what you are saying but am happy to agree to disagree. I must say though will all due respect, man didn't write the Bible. OK. He held the quill or whatever it was. God actually wrote the Bible. He used various persons as vehicles to copy his words. Secondly, I never said I have faith in the Bible. The Bible albeit Holy, is a book and you don't have faith in something tangible. I read the Bible because that's what He wants me to do. I have faith in my God and the promises he has made to me. I know he will do what He says he will do because I have faith. The same is true if you tell a friend "I have faith in you". You don't actually have faith in an object i.e. person, but you have faith in the intangible: their actions that will lead them to the end they desire. As for the Bible, it serves as a "road map" that directs me in the direction I should go, tells me what I need to do to serve God and live my life as faithfully as possible, no matter how seriously flawed I am as a human.

Agreed and Well said

What God says he will always follow through. God don`t turn his back on you. He is there when you need him.

[liljp617]

liljp617 and falconer02:  Why are you so defensive about what I wrote? Why do you feel you have to tear my comments into pieces and dispute sentence by sentence? This forum asked a question and I simply answered from my point of view. Maybe I shouldn't have spoken for all Christians, I was wrong to do that, but these are my beliefs and I thought I could voice them here without being judged. I didn't judge you or anything you had to say or anyone else for that matter. I didn't come on here to debate with anyone. I simply stated what I believe just as you did. You seem so angry and I don't know why. I happen to have strong Christian values and am comfortable knowing, without question, where I will spend eternity. I voiced thoughts in a public forum where both of you certainly have the right to do whatever you want with them. If you are so comfortable with your own destiny, then why are you being so aggressive and intent on disproving what I believe to be true? I knew when I wrote what I did that some people would disagree which is to be expected. But I didn't expect to participate, sharing my point of view, and be ripped apart so disrespectfully.

I said nothing about you nor did I judge you as an individual.  Could you point to where I did either of these things?  I addressed and judged what you wrote (completely different), and I did so without personal insults.  If you take offense to someone questioning your beliefs, I'm sorry, but that's not an issue of mine.  If you can't handle someone questioning your beliefs or you have no intentions to discuss/debate the topic, make a post stating your views and don't come back to the thread to see the replies you get.  That's the only solution I can think of.

I would, however, be inclined to say your post fits right in with what I've said multiple times:  Religious people make their views known with the expectation that others will confirm what they say; non-religious people make their views known on the subject with the expectation that what they say will be challenged.

I am very calm by the way.  If I was angry it would be much more apparent.  There is no purpose in getting angry; nothing is said on these forums that I haven't read countless times elsewhere.  Almost everything said in all these types of threads are centuries old arguments that have been refuted for as long as they've been present.   I don't dance around what it is I want to say, because this notion that religion is on a pedestal, immune to criticism, is ridiculous and I have no intentions to uphold such an idea.  I am blunt in what I say.  If that offends you, grow thicker skin or form some logical counterarguments.  If you don't wish to do either of those, I don't know what else to tell you.  I certainly won't sacrifice my right to freely express myself just so you don't get offended, especially when I've said nothing offensive.

[eSineM]

eSineM: I hear what you are saying but am happy to agree to disagree. I must say though will all due respect, man didn't write the Bible. OK. He held the quill or whatever it was. God actually wrote the Bible. He used various persons as vehicles to copy his words. Secondly, I never said I have faith in the Bible. The Bible albeit Holy, is a book and you don't have faith in something tangible. I read the Bible because that's what He wants me to do. I have faith in my God and the promises he has made to me. I know he will do what He says he will do because I have faith. The same is true if you tell a friend "I have faith in you". You don't actually have faith in an object i.e. person, but you have faith in the intangible: their actions that will lead them to the end they desire. As for the Bible, it serves as a "road map" that directs me in the direction I should go, tells me what I need to do to serve God and live my life as faithfully as possible, no matter how seriously flawed I am as a human.

Or so a man told you, and asked you to have faith in him that he is telling the truth. In fact it was of course many men all who made the same claim, as did Charles Manson and all the people I mentioned before. This is how it always is framed, they always say it is a higher being speaking through them, even psychics ask you to believe this.

However of course, faith is not logic based. If you have faith that god wrote the book through these people, and have faith that these people are telling the truth or whatever.. and have faith that nothing in the bible has been changed through the centuries, then you have faith. Nobody can or should stop you, but I only mention the fact its a dangerous thing, and it all comes down to the faith put into the authors/editors etc.

[liljp617]

eSineM: I hear what you are saying but am happy to agree to disagree. I must say though will all due respect, man didn't write the Bible. OK. He held the quill or whatever it was. God actually wrote the Bible. He used various persons as vehicles to copy his words. Secondly, I never said I have faith in the Bible. The Bible albeit Holy, is a book and you don't have faith in something tangible. I read the Bible because that's what He wants me to do. I have faith in my God and the promises he has made to me. I know he will do what He says he will do because I have faith. The same is true if you tell a friend "I have faith in you". You don't actually have faith in an object i.e. person, but you have faith in the intangible: their actions that will lead them to the end they desire. As for the Bible, it serves as a "road map" that directs me in the direction I should go, tells me what I need to do to serve God and live my life as faithfully as possible, no matter how seriously flawed I am as a human.

In fact it was of course many men all who made the same claim

Interestingly enough, many of the writings in the Bible (including the gospels) do not make the same claims.  They contradict each other on what would seem to be very important details.

[becool0130]

Noahs ark is true! Case and point. 

[Falconer02]

Noahs ark is true! Case and point. 

OMG THX 4 TEH PROOF, DUDE!1!!!!!

[rn4bama]

eSineM, thank you for your response to my last post. I finally feel like I'm having an intelligent "discussion" with someone who has his own convictions while respectfully allowing equally for the convictions of others. 

[rn4bama]

liljp617, for someone who doesn't "believe" and doesn't care for the opinions of those who do, you sure have spent alot of time on this thread. You have made greater than 150% more posts than the original author of this thread. I'm not coming back on this forum as you suggested, not for your reasons, but because I've said what I was compelled to say and am completely at peace with what I know and with my ultimate destiny. 

[ipayitforward]

Interestingly enough, many of the writings in the Bible (including the gospels) do not make the same claims.  They contradict each other on what would seem to be very important details.
[/quote]

OK, now you are the one who is giving generalities... could you give us examples of contradictions?