Hey, Jehovah's Witness?

[BK_Adores_Chase]

1st read Revelation 1:8 - then Revelation 22:13.  Finally, read Revelation 1:17-18 and answer me this:  When did Jehovah die?

[hitch0403]

I am not sure why you are asking this and not sure i should get involved.......but i guess ill play it by ear if its a discussion and not a debate.....

Jehovah God always was......He never had a beginning

Jesus is his begotten son cos Jehovah created him directly.Everything else was created by the 2 of them.Bible mentions times Jesus was Jehovahs master worker.EX...Let US make man.US is PLURAL.

Jesus as we all know died as a man to ransom mankind from death...vindicate Gods name and break up the works of the devil.

Jesus always gives his father credit for being God.He is greater than I he mentions.He also mentions things only Jehovah knows and NOT anyone else including himself.

Jesus represented his father when he was on earth as a man.He said how they were so similar just as we see sons represent their dads here and are so much like them.

Hope that helps!!

[hitch0403]

I just wanna add after John baptizes Jesus...the voice from heaven.....this is my son the beloved....i have approved...

I guess Jesus was a good ventriliquist!!

Of course there is humor there.Just another way to show you Jesus and Jehovah are 2 separate beings!!

But i assure you i understand many are sooooooooooo far gone today with truth its like it doesnt matter even when proof,logic etc are right there.Thats why Gods people today are told to just speak to those with accepting heart conditions for bible truths and leave others alone when they reject or too into only what they wanna believe.

[bob1tina]

1st read Revelation 1:8 - then Revelation 22:13.  Finally, read Revelation 1:17-18 and answer me this:  When did Jehovah die?

Jehovah has no beginning and no ending so he never died! The Book of Revelations is a difficult book to understand and it is easy to vere off. Revelation 22:13 you need to read before that and see who was talking was it once of the disciples was it Jesus who was talking there?

[JediJohnnie]

The thing that separates the JW's from Christianity is the concept that Jesus Christ was a "created being", a concept that's  NOT acknowledged in the bible in the slightest.

This is made abundantly clear in John's Gospel:
 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.  In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.  The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

So Christ always existed.He was always there with God,as He is the essence of God.Some purposefully try to alter the scriptures to suit themselves,but the meaning of that verse is very clear.

Also it's very clear Christ is distinctly separate from the Father.(Jesus prayed to God,God spoke to Jesus,etc) So it's not a case of one being role-playing multiple parts.That's the wonder of the trinity (which the JW's reject) in that God exists in three distinct persons (The Father,Son and Holy Ghost) but all are equally the same essence of God.

[hitch0403]

QUESTION: Is Jesus actually God?
ANSWER: No. Jesus never considered himself equal to God. On the contrary, Jesus repeatedly showed that he was subordinate to Jehovah.* For example, Jesus referred to Jehovah as “my God” and “the only true God.” (Matthew 27:46; John 17:3) Only a subordinate would use such expressions in referring to another. A worker who refers to his employer as “my boss” or “the one in charge” is clearly assuming an inferior position.
Jesus also showed that he was separate from God. Jesus once said to opposers who challenged his authority: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17, 18) Jesus must be separate from Jehovah. How else could they be viewed as two witnesses?*

[hitch0403]

 Jesus is Jehovah’s most precious Son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation. * (Colossians 1:15) There is something else that makes this Son special. He is the “only-begotten Son.” (John 3:16) This means that Jesus is the only one directly created by God. Jesus is also the only one whom God used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) Then, too, Jesus is called “the Word.” (John 1:14) This tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the Father’s other sons, both spirit and human.

12. How do we know that the firstborn Son is not equal to God?
12 Is the firstborn Son equal to God, as some believe? That is not what the Bible teaches. As we noted in the preceding paragraph, the Son was created. Obviously, then, he had a beginning, whereas Jehovah God has no beginning or end. (Psalm 90:2) The only-begotten Son never  even considered trying to be equal to his Father. The Bible clearly teaches that the Father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3) Jehovah alone is “God Almighty.” (Genesis 17:1) Therefore, he has no equal. *

[hitch0403]

Let me make 1 thing clear here.I put this proof up for many that maybe following along.

Mathew 24:14 tells us of Jesus followers preaching Gods kingdom thruout the world.Gods people in over 236 lands.Christendom doesnt obey Jesus command to memorialize his death.Over 20 million did last year.Christendom worries about pagan holidays such as xmas.NEVER even mentioned in bible.Christendom teaches you die and go to heaven and hell.NEVER such.....only for 144000 to rule with CHrist.

The earth stands till time indefinite....God will populate it with his kingdom or government in charge.

DISCERNMENT!!!!!!

The bible is the 2 edged sword.It examines the heart condition.Jesus also said a slave isnt greater than his master.They killed him so his true followers would be mocked etc too.

Discernment.I have no idea what others here even follow for the most part.20 million at The Memorial and than try to show proof xmas is Jesus birthday....he is god.....and thaT they are fulfilling Math 24:14....???LOL!!

[hitch0403]

And JJ......please dont insult my intelligence by saying Jesus creation isnt acknowledged in the bible.Col 1:15 is there for you...

Didnt you say once in the past you paid for your bible instruction?Seriously consider getting your money back!!

BTW...what sect are you?Are you the group thats fulfilling Math 24:14 now?LOLLL

And seriously...where is Santa or Rudolph mentioned in bible?Why dont you mention King Herod how he murdered all the 2 yr olds after the 3 astrologers didnt report back to him......a very merry xmas eh??

[hitch0403]

And why dont you mention Gods take on blood?

And what blood has done to the effect of spreading disease?

We might as well cover all the bases now!!

And the righteous will reside forever up the earth.OH noooooo.....cant be...they have to die and go to heaven/hell!!

And KJV Psalms 83:18 forgets to mention Jesus as most high over all the earth as god!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[hitch0403]

BobTina.....very true....Revelation tough to follow...but it mentions Babylon the Great being devoured.Babylon the great symbolizes the false empire of religeon that Satan has built up here also with his political system.

Government will soon turn on Christendom and begins the great tribulation Jesus spoke of.It warns us to GET out of her and not be part of her plagues.

Jehovah has allowed satan to spread his lies etc and in his due time it will end with satans being abyssed and 1000 yrs of rule by Jesus to get mankind back into the state he was in before Adam sinned.Satan will then be allowed loose once more after 1000 yr rein of Jesus.He still succeeds as the sand of the sea dragging down many.During that 1000 yr rein there will be a resurrection if righteous and unrighteous to hear the good news of Gods kingdom and see if they accept or reject it.

You can already see the writing on the walls how christendom is being exposed from the sexual scandals to all these wars.

Once they try to step in and kill Gods people Jehovah will step in and annihilate them at Armagheddon!!

Jesus said no flesh would be saved but the days cut short cos of the chosen ones.

[JediJohnnie]

And JJ......please dont insult my intelligence by saying Jesus creation isnt acknowledged in the bible.Col 1:15 is there for you...

Didnt you say once in the past you paid for your bible instruction?Seriously consider getting your money back!!

BTW...what sect are you?Are you the group thats fulfilling Math 24:14 now?LOLLL

And seriously...where is Santa or Rudolph mentioned in bible?Why dont you mention King Herod how he murdered all the 2 yr olds after the 3 astrologers didnt report back to him......a very merry xmas eh??

Whoa,calm down dude.No,I never claimed to pay for bible instruction.I don't believe in being led by the nose to God by any institution,least of all the Watchtower who are known for being inaccurate in most aspects on interpreting scripture.I don't have time to go point by point on your multiple posts,but to start Col 15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."(Note 'over' not "of" as the Watchtower incorrectly translates) does not support Christ being created.( If anything,it supports that Christ is in fact completely equal with God)Christ is called "The Firstborn" in several places in the bible.The fundamental question is: If Christ is a created being and not a part of the Godhead,what gives Him the authority to cleanse us of our sins?Being God's "junior partner" in creation doesn't make Him an adequate sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins,does it?

[JediJohnnie]

QUESTION: Is Jesus actually God?
ANSWER: No. Jesus never considered himself equal to God. On the contrary, Jesus repeatedly showed that he was subordinate to Jehovah.* For example, Jesus referred to Jehovah as “my God” and “the only true God.” (Matthew 27:46; John 17:3) Only a subordinate would use such expressions in referring to another. A worker who refers to his employer as “my boss” or “the one in charge” is clearly assuming an inferior position.
Jesus also showed that he was separate from God. Jesus once said to opposers who challenged his authority: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17, 18) Jesus must be separate from Jehovah. How else could they be viewed as two witnesses?*

Christ is of the same essence as God,but they are separate persons.Christ is subordinate  to the Father in the same way we are subordinate to our earthly fathers.

Or another example:I'm made of the same essence as the President of the United States.As far as the biology goes,we are two human men,no different.But Obama has the office-the authority to make laws and rules,where I do not.

And it's much the same way in the Incarnation.Christ does not rule over the Father Himself,but serves the Father,despite being of equal essence.

[hitch0403]

OK DUDE.....i was kinda hoping this topic would vaporize.......

I am almost positive i remember you mentioning <in the days of the other falcon> you took some kind of biblical course.I hardly would make that up.But if at the time i misunderstood you <and i really dont think i did>....let it go.

Again....there have been plenty of topics and discussions here and in the world about Jesus being God.Obviously i support Jehovahs organization and have put up research why.No need to go back and forth with this.

Jesus is God or isnt.....Xmas is pagan or isnt.....Trinity exists or doesnt....eating blood is acceptable to God or isnt...

I think u get where im coming from.

Just remember this....Jesus said his true followers would have love among themselves and worship God with spirit and truth.

I am not sure you have ever been to a JW assembly or meeting before.......

Go see for yourself!!

Thanx

[Lindaroof]

And this is a topic I always steer clear of, to many different beliefs and who is to say which one is right or wrong?