This topic is locked, no replies allowed. Inaccurate or out-of-date info may be present.

  • Print

Topic: Wow Really!  (Read 3441 times)

lvstephanie

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2198 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 97x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2013, 12:24:45 pm »
Quote
Thru 1 man sin entered into the world.Thus all have sinned ....Romans 5 :12
Yeah...that makes sense. Everyone should pay for another person's crime...that's certainly a just system ::)

No, the Bible is quite clear! Not only should an evildoer suffer for their sins, but so too their children in case the progeny continues the evil acts of their fathers:

"Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." - DEU 24:16

Oops! Wrong quote! I meant: "Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.” -ISA 14:21

hitch0403

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3882 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 127x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2013, 02:04:13 pm »
Bjohnson...i guess you never heard of freedom of choice...God didnt create A&E with sin...they willfully dis-obeyed.We arent robots even tho i may make an exception with you.

Also when a mother has done drugs and passes it on to her new-born child how do you explain that?A&E passed their sins to their off-spring just as a mom passes her addiction to a baby.

You seem to forget and not give credit to the Creator for providing a way for A&E offspring to gain eternal life in paradisic conditons.I think love was intended there.

You have freedom of choice <i think>use it wisely,otherwise live your 70-80 years and get what u can outta life and so be it for you.

kimmy29

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197 (since 2013)
  • Thanked: 6x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2013, 11:39:59 am »

JediJohnnie

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 4521 (since 2010)
  • Thanked: 166x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2013, 12:45:56 am »
Quote
Thru 1 man sin entered into the world.Thus all have sinned ....Romans 5 :12
Yeah...that makes sense. Everyone should pay for another person's crime...that's certainly a just system ::)

No, the Bible is quite clear! Not only should an evildoer suffer for their sins, but so too their children in case the progeny continues the evil acts of their fathers:

"Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." - DEU 24:16

Oops! Wrong quote! I meant: "Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.” -ISA 14:21

The difference between verses are,the first meaning a punishment should be only leveled against the one guilty of the crime. The second is clearly talking about not allowing the offspring of evil men to continue the evil their ancestors began.

Google JediJohnnie and May the Force be with you!

vp44

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2927 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 65x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2013, 07:29:38 am »
Quote
Thru 1 man sin entered into the world.Thus all have sinned ....Romans 5 :12
Yeah...that makes sense. Everyone should pay for another person's crime...that's certainly a just system ::)

No, the Bible is quite clear! Not only should an evildoer suffer for their sins, but so too their children in case the progeny continues the evil acts of their fathers:

"Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." - DEU 24:16

Oops! Wrong quote! I meant: "Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.” -ISA 14:21

The difference between verses are,the first meaning a punishment should be only leveled against the one guilty of the crime. The second is clearly talking about not allowing the offspring of evil men to continue the evil their ancestors began.
So If a Rich kid commit a sin he should be held accountable of his sins and if not the parents should be held accountable?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 07:36:30 am by vp44 »

nannycoe1

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 4027 (since 2013)
  • Thanked: 103x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2013, 07:44:45 am »
We are all human.

vp44

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2927 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 65x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2013, 07:58:30 am »
Yes with mistakes. No one is perfect. Just because we are all human does not make a excuse for making inhumane choices.

lvstephanie

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2198 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 97x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 09:53:24 am »
Quote
Thru 1 man sin entered into the world.Thus all have sinned ....Romans 5 :12
Yeah...that makes sense. Everyone should pay for another person's crime...that's certainly a just system ::)

No, the Bible is quite clear! Not only should an evildoer suffer for their sins, but so too their children in case the progeny continues the evil acts of their fathers:

"Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." - DEU 24:16

Oops! Wrong quote! I meant: "Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.” -ISA 14:21

The difference between verses are,the first meaning a punishment should be only leveled against the one guilty of the crime. The second is clearly talking about not allowing the offspring of evil men to continue the evil their ancestors began.

The two verses still contradict each other... If Deuteronomy says to only punish a person for a crime of their own doing, then preemptively killing the sons "lest" they commit the same crimes should also be disallowed. The word "lest" in Isiah says that these sons have not perpetrated the sin yet, but that the killing of the sons is done as a military strategy to ensure that the enemy nation doesn't continue after the leaders have been eliminated. Moreover, if Deuteronomy is the biblical verse that should be used to identify who should be punished, then again it just begs the question that BJohnson posed about why everyone should be punished for the sin that Adam and Eve made.

Also when a mother has done drugs and passes it on to her new-born child how do you explain that?A&E passed their sins to their off-spring just as a mom passes her addiction to a baby.

As for this, I'd argue that the sin is not the drug addiction, but rather is abusing your body to begin with. Thus the mother sinned by taking the drugs to begin with, but the baby wouldn't be a sinner for being hooked on drugs in the same way that a preacher having a baby out of wed-lock is a sin, but the baby itself is not said to have sinned thru premarital sex; the baby is just is a result of the parent's sin.

hitch0403

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3882 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 127x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 02:10:46 pm »
IvenSteph.That is Gods law.A&E sinned,therefore couldnt bring sin-less off-spring.So if God destroys A&E soon as they sinned and starts over God is saying then maybe total independence and what Satan suggests is right?

His allowance of it to continue PROVES independence doesnt work when man tries to govern himself apart from his creator.PLUS God knows that some of A&E opp-spring will LOVE him and accept him as rightful ruler of universe.

If you were a father and your neighbor kept accusing you of NOT providing for your family what do you do?Do you let time go by to prove him wrong or go over there and beat the crap outta him for lying?

God handled it with time going by to show the bad fruitage of the rebellion in Eden.And then HE allowed HIS begotten son to be treated as a criminal and die a humiliating death to VINDICATE HIMSELF as GOD and balance the scales of justice.A perfect life for the perfect one Adam threw away.An act of LOVE that cannot be duplicated any other way!!

hitch0403

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3882 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 127x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 02:18:27 pm »
Again Jesus showed under more trying and adverse conditions Adam could have been obedient and loved God.


JediJohnnie

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 4521 (since 2010)
  • Thanked: 166x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2013, 02:03:58 am »
Quote
Thru 1 man sin entered into the world.Thus all have sinned ....Romans 5 :12
Yeah...that makes sense. Everyone should pay for another person's crime...that's certainly a just system ::)

No, the Bible is quite clear! Not only should an evildoer suffer for their sins, but so too their children in case the progeny continues the evil acts of their fathers:

"Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." - DEU 24:16

Oops! Wrong quote! I meant: "Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.” -ISA 14:21

The difference between verses are,the first meaning a punishment should be only leveled against the one guilty of the crime. The second is clearly talking about not allowing the offspring of evil men to continue the evil their ancestors began.

The two verses still contradict each other... If Deuteronomy says to only punish a person for a crime of their own doing, then preemptively killing the sons "lest" they commit the same crimes should also be disallowed. The word "lest" in Isiah says that these sons have not perpetrated the sin yet, but that the killing of the sons is done as a military strategy to ensure that the enemy nation doesn't continue after the leaders have been eliminated.
Well,I see you're gonna make me crack open my bible here.(but that's a good thing. ;D)
Firstly,it's important to make the distinction between the two books. Deuteronomy is one of the Torah,a book of the Law,while consequently  Isaiah is a book of prophecy and must be interpreted accordingly.

Here's the passage in the NIV,it's a bit clearer speaking,IMO:
Let the offspring of the wicked
    never be mentioned again.
21 Prepare a place to slaughter his children
    for the sins of their ancestors;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
    and cover the earth with their cities.


Now,context,context,context.Here's the accompanying verses:

“I will rise up against them,”
    declares the Lord Almighty.
“I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors,
    her offspring and descendants,”
declares the Lord.
23 “I will turn her into a place for owls
    and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,”
    declares the Lord Almighty.

Notice the repeated use of the word "I".This is not a command for carrying out punishment of a crime.Rather it's God pronouncing His Judgement and the punishments He will pour forth.There is no contradiction.

Moreover, if Deuteronomy is the biblical verse that should be used to identify who should be punished, then again it just begs the question that BJohnson posed about why everyone should be punished for the sin that Adam and Eve made.

It's not entirely true that we're punished for  Adam & Eve's sin.It's more accurate to say we're punished by Adam & Eve's sin.When they sinned,Sin entered world and changed God's flawless creation.So we don't get punished for what they did,but it affected Mankind necessitating the need for a Savior.


Google JediJohnnie and May the Force be with you!

skinnygwenny

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310 (since 2013)
  • Thanked: 12x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 09:00:29 pm »
This is a subject that I do not like to comment on but I will say this, Anyone having extramaratal affairs are committing adultery.

vp44

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2927 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 65x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 11:00:32 am »
Quote your thought's. In this day and time. Stop quoting the bible. Those are not your quotes.

skrogman

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1838 (since 2012)
  • Thanked: 60x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 09:46:54 pm »
Considering the word you used was "preachers" and not "priests",   I would say that every pastor I have ever known has had beautiful help mate wives who are instrumental in helping in the Church.  The Catholic Church differs.  And children out of wedlock...that is a hot button issue, I know.  Yes, it is looked on as sinful.  However, here, I would say to each his own.  If a person can really handle the obligation, responsibility, and expense of parenthood on their own and can give the child all that he/she needs then their life is full of their own choices.  I would much rather see a child raised in a single parent home than in a home where the couple has only remained together for the sake of the children.  Just my humble opinion.

AJsGma

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151 (since 2013)
  • Thanked: 6x
Re: Wow Really!
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2013, 01:59:45 pm »
Judge not lest ye be judged."

  • Print