Gay Marriage

[Quirita]

I believe Gay people have the right to be in love if they so choose. But Marriage is a religous thing and I dont know any religion that teaches or preaches in homosexuality. So maybe there needs to be gay "union" laws or something but marriage...I dont agree

[aspenl]

Thank you for your opinion.  I have mine and you have yours.  I didn't try to bash what you believe nor was I trying to make you believe in the bible.  I will not go further because it is clear you are not interested in my opinion.

You don't have to try to make me believe the Bible...what I believe is irrelevant on this topic.  I'm asking you a question...a simple one in my opinion.  Perhaps I'll ask again:

If this is the same book you're trying to argue the morals of homosexuality from, why do you completely decline using the morals clearly outlined above (or any number of other acts of brutality from the Bible)?  Are they not the laws of the same god?  Are these laws not as infallible as the ones supposedly against homosexuality?  Are there varying degrees of infallibility?  Why are you cherry picking "the word of God" to fit your own agenda (which appears to be oppressing a minority, for whatever reason)?

Do you have an answer to this?  Why would I ask the question if I didn't want an answer, from you specifically?

I do have answers to all of your questions.  I am not 'cherry picking' I can show you proof and explanation for everything in your list and I will explain if you want.  You are judging my religion without even knowing what religion I am, or anything about what I believe.  I never said homosexual marriages should not be legalized whether I believe it or not.  I merely said I am against the consept of gay.  If you are interested in learning about my religion and why I believe the way I do, I will be glad to share (however not here).  It is not the topic of this forum nor is it a topic I feel should be discussed through this site.  If you would like to honestly learn about what I believe then tell me so, and we will meet somewhere else.  However I do not believe you are sincerely interested in what I believe, you simply want to change what I believe and have a battle of words.  I am not here for an argument.  Again, thank you for your opinion and I hope you have a fabulous day!

[liljp617]

I believe black people have the right to be in love if they so choose. But Marriage is a religous thing and I dont know any religion that teaches or preaches in black marriages. So maybe there needs to be black "union" laws or something but marriage...I dont agree

I fixed your post.


How many people must be corrected on the fact that marriage DOES NOT have its origins or anything close to its roots in any religion?  How many people must be corrected on the fact that marriage is inherently a legal institution approved by the state, not a religious institution approved by Father Joe?

Thank you for your opinion.  I have mine and you have yours.  I didn't try to bash what you believe nor was I trying to make you believe in the bible.  I will not go further because it is clear you are not interested in my opinion.

You don't have to try to make me believe the Bible...what I believe is irrelevant on this topic.  I'm asking you a question...a simple one in my opinion.  Perhaps I'll ask again:

If this is the same book you're trying to argue the morals of homosexuality from, why do you completely decline using the morals clearly outlined above (or any number of other acts of brutality from the Bible)?  Are they not the laws of the same god?  Are these laws not as infallible as the ones supposedly against homosexuality?  Are there varying degrees of infallibility?  Why are you cherry picking "the word of God" to fit your own agenda (which appears to be oppressing a minority, for whatever reason)?

Do you have an answer to this?  Why would I ask the question if I didn't want an answer, from you specifically?

I do have answers to all of your questions.  I am not 'cherry picking' I can show you proof and explanation for everything in your list and I will explain if you want.  You are judging my religion without even knowing what religion I am, or anything about what I believe.  I never said homosexual marriages should not be legalized whether I believe it or not.  I merely said I am against the consept of gay.  If you are interested in learning about my religion and why I believe the way I do, I will be glad to share (however not here).  It is not the topic of this forum nor is it a topic I feel should be discussed through this site.  If you would like to honestly learn about what I believe then tell me so, and we will meet somewhere else.  However I do not believe you are sincerely interested in what I believe, you simply want to change what I believe and have a battle of words.  I am not here for an argument.  Again, thank you for your opinion and I hope you have a fabulous day!

When you bring it up as a defense/reason for your stance on the subject of the thread, it is relevant to the thread.  You're an individual who believes in the Bible and has clearly stated and implied that you don't accept homosexuality because of the moral convictions found in the Bible.  What more do I need to know to ask the question I asked?  That's plenty of information to ask why you follow what the Bible says on the morality of homosexuality, but don't follow what the Bible says on the morality of how to treat rapists, disobedient children, etc.  It's certainly relevant to the topic of this thread...surely you believe it's relevant as you (and others) brought it up to begin with.

I don't care what you believe, as in you can believe as you wish.  I just don't understand the inconsistency.  Therefore, I asked the question -- twice.  I can't do anything but assume you don't have an answer, as you refuse to answer the question with not so great excuses.

[LittleDebbieG]

not to open yet another can of worms.... but this countrys laws were based on the religious convictions of the founders....

And to close that can of worms, all one needs to do is read the Treaty of Tripoli (Article 11 thereof). Then again, not all laws currently on the books are based off of the religious convictions of our Founding Fathers. If so, we'd still have public flogging and interracial marriages would not be allowed. Good thing we've microevolved as a society, right?

Either way - marriage is a LEGAL INSTITUTION in this country. Where it derives from has no bearing on what the current status of marriage is. All ordained religious figures must receive state permission in order to issue legal marriage certificates. People do not even need to go to church/synagogue/etc in order to get married - I'm sure there's a licensed person who can marry people affiliated with your local courthouse.

[cowgirlx]

I am a woman happily married to a man, on that same note I think that gay people should have that same opportunity.  I is for the most part them just wanting to be with the person they love.  I know that it offends alot of people, but it's not like they are asking you to be gay with them.  They just want it to be on paper like everone else.  How would you feel if it was the other way around?  If gay people could be married and we couldn't. I've got to tell you that I would be heartbroke it someone told me that I couldn' t marry my husband just because I'm straight.

[firefly001]

I know some of you are going to have red faces  after I'm done, but I'm going to say what I have to say. If some of you would read your Bible more you would know that this sort of relationship is an abomination against God. Also small g in God refers to a false god, G should be always capitalized. You are talking about two men living together, one or hell both taking the place of the woman and same goes for two women, I mean how is any of this okay; and don't tell me they were born this way, they made a choice and as always the choices we make have consequenses. Some of you are saying they should get this and that like any other couples but guess what they are not like any other couples. They want benefits from their partner let them have it, they get to flaunt their relationship in public, props to them, but marriage is a whole other thing. For those of you who are married or have been to a wedding you should try and remember what the exact words to those vows are... Think about it. And those of you that say religion or the Bible has nothing to do with it you are soo wrong. We should try and remember what our true purpose is and who we owe our lives too.
It seems everyday we find ways to dissappoint God some more. May He have mercy on us. 

[LittleDebbieG]

Also small g in God refers to a false god, G should be always capitalized.

Firefly, I didn't end up with a red face after reading your post. However, it should be noted that certain faiths/religions require that god be lowercased or even written as G-d. Typing it out in full with capitalization makes whatever you've written it on to be sacred. As a sign of respect to those people, that is why you'll see me write it as such.

If some of you would read your Bible more you would know that this sort of relationship is an abomination against God.

I have read the (not my) Bible. In fact, I've read several versions of it... and even in a few different languages. I've read the Old Testament and New Testament alike. For the record, my readings of Sodom and Gomorrah are that the city was burned down because of rape, gluttony, and inhospitality.

"Genesis 18:20-21, NIV"

Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

People consenting to homosexual "relations" would not cry out to the lord against their partner. Somebody who has been raped (as the townsmen were attempting to do with the angels in Lot's home) would cry to the lord.

"Luke 10:10-12, NIV"

But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, 'Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God is near.' I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

Which, this reads to me that if a town is not hospitable towards you, they will suffer worse than Sodom.

[djdiggz]

not only am i against gay marriages but , also against gays period. it literally is right in a persons face to know that its completely wrong.not only        does it goes beyond the laws of nature but also the principles of ethics and religion. i mean how the heck do we procreate if there where only gays?
if it was the right way of living why is it that both  sex males and females where made , why not only males and only females.
and this is not only in humans its also in everything from insect to animals.
then they say that they were made that way, please, everyone has a choice, the choice to stay singles for the rest of your life or married (unfortunately today to the same sex ).

they are either mentally ill or plain stupid to not know that this is wrong.

[firefly001]

"We must obey God as ruler rather than men", Do you agree LittleDebbieG? With that being said; We are talking about gay marriage not Sodom and Gomorrah. I am not hating or bashing gays, all I am saying is their sexual practice is wrong. In the Bible when they speak of man and wife, they were refering to one man and one woman. Since you are familiar with the Bible then you have no problem checking these out. Leviticus chp 18 (the commandments), Romans chp 1, 1 Corinthians chp 6: 9-10 and Hebrew chp 13. Need I say more?

[cowgirlx]

Not to totally tick you off, but don't you think that they feel the same way about us?  Several of my friends are gay and they are the nicest people I have ever encountered.  The concept of one man and one woman totally grosses them out so we just avoid the subject out of respect for each other. That is all they really want.  They have feelings too.  You talk about them like they are a disease.  What does that say for you to judge them?  What is the scripture about not being the one to cast the first stone?  oh and the one about not judging unless you want to be judged?  Isn' that God's job?  I think we should just accept people for who they are and in the end it will be up to God to judge.

[amy1303]

What is the scripture about not being the one to cast the first stone?  oh and the one about not judging unless you want to be judged?  Isn' that God's job?  I think we should just accept people for who they are and in the end it will be up to God to judge.

John 8:7:

   "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Luke 6:37:

   "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" 

Sounds like we on the FC Forum may best be left to filling out offers and not doctrine interpretation.  / /  ? 

[Quirita]

I believe Gay people have the right to be in love if they so choose. But Marriage is a religous thing and I dont know any religion that teaches or preaches in homosexuality. So maybe there needs to be gay "union" laws or something but marriage...I dont agree

liljp617
I fixed it back. It is what I believe....and this is my opinion. Its not up to you to fix anything I have to say as there is nothing broken.  Being Black is not religous...duh. Its really bad when you have to stoop to making comparisons that really have nothing to do with the other. I do not agree with gay marriage. Not for anyone, not for any reason. Theres alot of people who feel that way too. End of story.
Stop trying to be a bully.  You were probably mad that Miss California had an opinion other than your too huh. Too bad.
Its not legal now. Too bad.
Just out of curiosity....
Are you Gay and trying to be married? This seems to be getting to you more than most. 

[mlbevins]

Those of us that believe in the bible will never feel that gay marriage is right, and those that don't believe will always think that it is okay.  There will never be an end to this conversation.

[liljp617]

I believe Gay people have the right to be in love if they so choose. But Marriage is a religous thing and I dont know any religion that teaches or preaches in homosexuality. So maybe there needs to be gay "union" laws or something but marriage...I dont agree

liljp617
I fixed it back. It is what I believe....and this is my opinion. Its not up to you to fix anything I have to say as there is nothing broken.  Being Black is not religous...duh. Its really bad when you have to stoop to making comparisons that really have nothing to do with the other. I do not agree with gay marriage. Not for anyone, not for any reason. Theres alot of people who feel that way too. End of story.
Stop trying to be a bully.  You were probably mad that Miss California had an opinion other than your too huh. Too bad.
Its not legal now. Too bad.
Just out of curiosity....
Are you Gay and trying to be married? This seems to be getting to you more than most. 

Being gay is not religious either.  Nothing is religious unless that individual adheres to [insert religion] and gives credence to [insert religion].  It was quite the valid comparison, as it was merely pointing out that you could toss any group of people into that instead of gays and it would read just the same and would be just as prejudiced. 

How many people believe it is irrelevant.  Millions of people believed slavery was fine, millions believed burning people at the stake was fine, millions believed the Earth was flat, millions believed it rained because they slayed a bull and sacrificed it to [insert any of the thousands of gods], millions believed Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 for years after the attack, etc.  Hopefully we can agree that the masses believing something does not give it any more credence than if only one person believed it.

I personally don't care what any beauty pageant contestant says.  The vast majority of them are ignorant on any subject they're asked a question on and they almost always have generic answers that do not fit the questions at all.  What they say has little relevance or significance on the world.  I'm more interested in the fact that she breached a short (12 page), clear contract that stated what she could and could not do both during and after the pageant and nothing happened because she gave some teary eyed speech about how she's being persecuted and her freedoms are being invaded.  I just thought that was slightly ironic.

No, I'm not gay.  I don't have any family members or friends that are gay.  I frankly have no personal stake in any of this outside of being a citizen of a country that prides itself on freedoms and the pursuit of happiness.  I'm a big fan of allowing people to do as they please as long as it does not impose on the freedoms and pursuits of happiness of others.  I'm what you would refer to as a person in opposition to blatant prejudice hiding behind contradictory, outdated principles from books written 2,000 years ago.  I'm what you would refer to as somebody who forms moral views based on reality and present times.

[liljp617]

Regardless, again, religious convictions have no place in determining laws of this country.  Your moral convictions due to your religion are your own problem and you're free to have them all you want, but they're not justification for legally barring a minority from equal rights or for excusing discrimination of a minority by the majority.

not to open yet another can of worms.... but this countrys laws were based on the religious convictions of the founders....

Let's make note that this country was not founded upon Christianity, or any organized theistic religion.  This country was founded upon secular ideologies/laws and a separation of supposed divine forces and government.  This country was founded largely by deists, secularists (some of whom WERE Christians, although not close to the sense of modern Christians), agnostics, and atheists...the vast majority of whom were very opposed to Christianity being interrelated with the federal government; many of whom were very opposed to the organized Christian religion and the Bible as a whole.

There is no can of worms here.  It's plain, easy-to-find historical fact that disagrees with your claim.  The subject of this country's foundation is not one of opinion.