Ponder this for a sec

[pattersondebra]

WOW! THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY BESIDES HOW CAN THE SPEAKING OF RELIGION CAUSE SUCH TROUBLE?

[Falconer02]

Falcon2...sorry but i am not hiding anything.

Then why haven't you touched my original questions about your religion!? Why are you not acknowledging the obviouis problems I've brought up!? I'm rather enjoying your ignorance of the problems. Rather nostalgic, really.

Obviously you dont agree with how God has handled the situation when you wanna believe God exists.

I really have no desire to believe any god exists. I am very happy that your own defined god does not exist. Even if he did, I would find it immoral to worship such a horrific monster.

You dont agree that HIM warning A&E was enuff for them to test their fate after Satan deceived Eve.You dont wanna agree cursed is the ground on your account and mans pollution is enuff for volcanoes etc.And Remember,sinning also deprived mankind of Gods protection.

What are you talking about? How can you warn someone of a wrong choice when they don't have the knowledge of right from wrong? Are you saying pollution causes volcanoes? Because I regret to inform you that volcanoes have been happening well before we existed. Even volcanoes can cause what we deem dangerous pollutants.

Do you have children?What would they think if you warned them of something and you said you would discipline them if they dis-obeyed and then you didnt follow thru?

Well I'd make sure they were educated on the matter before hand-- that's always the sign of a good parent. And if I knew (like an omnipotent god can) that they would disobey me, I'd make sure to stop them from the error as not doing so would be uncaring and malevolent. If they still disobeyed afterwards, I wouldn't send them to their rooms for the rest of their lives suffering either. A slap on the wrist and a quick explanation of what was wrong with the choice would be more logical and loving.

The universe and the earth belong to Jehovah.He decides with the best interest for his creation what is right.Yet we have freedom of choice.You wanna live forever and NOT acknowledge that.Again thats Satans argument in Eden.Independence.Take a look at the earth and tell me its bbeen a success.

Please explain how an omnipotent god who knows past, present, and future allows for free will when he already knows the choices we will make before we make them. And how is "Obey me or suffer" a free will statement? That's coersion. The earth has it's fair share of problems, but we're doing pretty good compared to the past. We're living longer, we have better morals, we can fly with technology, we can communicate across the planet in a matter of seconds, we're exploring space, we're erradicating diseases and handicaps, etc. Hell, we walked on the moon! Those are amazing successes! I'd rather be positive than negative of my existence and push for more successes. Obviously you walk as though you're a plague of this world. Have fun with that.

NO ONE can ever question God and say we can rule ourselves better without your help

We have though. I've already shown how. Isn't it strange that this country has done so well with an emphasis of freedom of and from religion? Perhaps you should reread Deuteronomy and Leviticus and then try saying this quote with a straight face.

Many governments have been tried by man.....many world powers starting with Egpyt.....ALL FAIL!!

I highly recommend you study the Dark Ages. Worst time in human history pretty much. 1/3 of the planet died from a plague. And you know who ruled? A Christian theocracy.

[sigmapi1501]

The Earth is only 6,000 years old
Carbon dating has been shown to be inaccurate (by Growing Pains own Mike Seaver aka Kirk Cameron)
God put Dinosaur bones in the ground, then aged them to test our faith.

Sound about right hitch?

[alaric99x]

Of course that would sound right to a 3rd grader like hitch, but it doesn't "sound about right" for anybody who has even the most basic education in science.

Meanwhile hitch is talking about "many world powers starting with Egpyt."  I guess he might mean "Egypt," but Egypt wasn't a world power, although it was imperial in the nature of its control over other territories in that part of the world.  In any case, there were several empires before Egypt, some of those are even mentioned in the bible.

 

[alaric99x]

Incidentally, you talk about 6000 years since creation, while at the same time the bible talks about generations of characters like Methusela living for almost 1000 years.  How can you explain such a discrepancy?  Next you'll be telling me that Jesus drove around in a Model-T Ford.  Try to explain that math to me, idiot....

[hitch0403]

Falcon2...i thought i addressed what u keep saying i avoid by saying All sin and fall short of God.Including Gods people.I apologize if i am missing something else.

If Jehovah knew the future all the time then that would mean he couldnt control it.HE CHOOSES WHEN TO KNOW and in fairness to his creation when NOT to know.He chose NOT to know mankind would sin.Why would he bother warning him penalty of sin was death...THAT A&E understood.

Dont say A&E didnt know right from wrong.Eve told Satan "God said we would die".....Satan said,you positively will not die but be like God knowing good and bad

Look there is no sense in continuing this.You claim to have known the bible and you dont even know something this basic in Genesis.

Why are we discussing bible?You always go back to sq 1.....man ur fickle.

[hitch0403]

Sick......pay attn......mankind is 6000 yrs old...NOT the creation.Now i really see why the mud-slinging starts.

You guys are stupid!!!

Falcon DOESNT get it about God being able to choose the future or NOT.You paid attn at those meetings like Rip Van Winkle being interested in the Late show.

[hitch0403]

Man was created on the 6th creative day.Did i stutter?

Man was created on the 6th creative day....

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth......I NEVER said the earth was 6000 yrs old.....MAN IS!!!Did i stutter?

You guys are stupid....Did i stutter?

Each creative day was thousands of yrs long.They had to be to see light NOW from stars that were 1000s of light yrs away....DID i stutter???

And Allergic...so who was the first world power then?DUHHHHH...the bible happens to be a history book too...did i stutter?

It amazes me how 1 can argue and be soooooo stupid.

[falcon9]

Did i stutter?

Did i stutter?

Did i stutter?

DID i stutter???

...did i stutter?

It amazes me how I can argue and be soooooo stupid.

It may amaze you however, others aren't very surprised.

[Falconer02]

Falcon2...i thought i addressed what u keep saying i avoid by saying All sin and fall short of God.Including Gods people.

So you're saying that the creator(s) of your religion are imperfect and fall short, and therefore (given the easy-to-find evidence) that it was built upon fraud. Then it is not the truth. Therefore JW's do not preach the truth. And since the bible says to avoid false prophets (actually it says to kill them...), you are not part of the Abrahamic religions but a spin-off cult.

If Jehovah knew the future all the time then that would mean he couldnt control it.HE CHOOSES WHEN TO KNOW and in fairness to his creation when NOT to know.He chose NOT to know mankind would sin.Why would he bother warning him penalty of sin was death...THAT A&E understood.

Where in the bible does it say god can 'turn off his omnipotence'? Unless you can quote those scriptures, you'll have to admit that you're simply making up his super-powers.

Dont say A&E didnt know right from wrong.Eve told Satan "God said we would die".....Satan said,you positively will not die but be like God knowing good and bad

But, again, that's not what the bible says. Quoting someone does not automatically mean you know the right or wrong choice. It's like telling a child not to stick a fork in an outlet or he'll be electricuted. He has no knowledge of electricity and therefore has no idea of the consequence. It specifically states in the bible that god gave them the knowledge AFTER they failed, so you're still stuck with the burden of proving this god is not malevolent.

Look there is no sense in continuing this.You claim to have known the bible and you dont even know something this basic in Genesis.

And yet here I am explaining precisely what the bible says to you, and you are cherry-picking and stating things it does not say.

Why are we discussing bible?You always go back to sq 1.....man ur fickle.

Because you keep bringing it up.

mankind is 6000 yrs old...NOT the creation

Mankind is much older than 6000 years. Anyone who passed elementary school knows this.

Falcon DOESNT get it about God being able to choose the future or NOT.You paid attn at those meetings like Rip Van Winkle being interested in the Late show.

You sling mud, but completely fail to explain or quote how an omnipotent god can not have the knowledge of the future.

Each creative day was thousands of yrs long.They had to be to see light NOW from stars that were 1000s of light yrs away....DID i stutter???

Let's trust a book that says light was created before the light sources.  

...so who was the first world power then?DUHHHHH...the bible happens to be a history book too...did i stutter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_powers

You guys are stupid!!!

This is a picture-perfect example of a Jehovah's Witness, fellow Fusioncash users. Take a note.

[alaric99x]

OK, I've read (mythological) accounts that claim the earth is only 6000 years old.

Let's accept the revised verion of hitch that the 6000 years only refers to the time of man, it still makes no sense at all.  If Jesus lived about 2000 years ago, then you have to subtract 2000 from 6000, now you have 4000 years left to explain all of human time before Jesus.  Now you have 4000 years to explain the time of Adam and Eve and the generations up to Methuselah and beyond, most of which lived for almost 1000 years.  Then you have Noah, Moses and all the rest of the old testament history up to the year zero.  It just doesn't work out any way mathematically, no matter how you play with the numbers.  Only a complete idiot would accept the reality of such a chronology.

(Hitch, if the math above is too complicated for you, I'll be happy to try to explain it to you in more simple terms.)

[alaric99x]

Once again, Egypt wasn't the first empire.  Hitch, you called Egypt a "world power."  What does "world power" mean in biblical times, did they have some colonies in North or South America, maybe in Australia?  I still claim that Egypt was simply an early empire, hitch, can you name any other empires besides Egypt before or during the time of Egypt?  It's an "open book" question and you have extra time, because we all know you're a little slow.

[hitch0403]

Allergic.The WB&TS has a book called "Reasoning from the scriptures"as well as many other biblical publications.

You put NO credibility in what i write or me explaining bible.If you sincerly want answers to those questions <which im sure u dont>I suggest picking up copies of those books.You wont have to go in your piggy bank im sure.

This much i will say.Why is it so hard for 4000 years to have gone by from Jesus to Adam?The bible even gives you the generations.If you notice in Moses day God told mankind he wouldnt live past 120 yrs.

Ill bet you cant even figure out why there was no incest in earlier times or why man lived longer.

[queenofnines]

I wanna ask you where would mankind be if God had destroyed A&E immediately if you believe bible to be truth.

There are multiple errors in this line of thinking. First of all, the whole "forbidden fruit" scenario is immensely illogical. You can't put a baby in a playpen and give it a gun and say, "Don't play with that!" and expect it to know any better, but that's essentially what your god did. Adam and Eve were completely clueless about the concept of good versus evil until after they ate the apple; therefore, they didn't know that they were doing something "wrong" by "disobeying" god when such ideas were self-contained in said apple.

Now you could say, "Well if you're in another country and you accidentally break a law, you're still held accountable even if you didn't know any better" and that is true except it is not a fair comparison. Your god knew Adam and Eve had the equivalent of baby brains when it came to any "knowledge" of right and wrong and was the one who put the tree in the garden in the first place. Basically, he expected two retards to pass this bogus test, of which he already knew the outcome (they fail) since the beginning of time. So...if anyone's to blame, it's not Adam and Eve; it's your god (but really, it's the writers of the Bible for not being smart enough to recognize the holes in their story).

Secondly, you claim Adam and Eve and all of their incest goodness were essential for humanity's existence. Also not true, unless your god is not as powerful as you claim.

There is also NOTHING wrong teaching a child truth.

Beliefs are not truth. Truth requires evidence that can be tested and observed over and over again. Your god and your Bible fall short.

I am surprised you admitted God might exist.

I dislike the term "god" because both Jesus freaks and spiritual wackos in general claim hold to it. Defined deities can be disproven. Mushy, "free for all" buffet gods cannot.

http://www.graveyardofthegods.net/articles/cantprovenegative.html

[queenofnines]

HE CHOOSES WHEN TO KNOW and in fairness to his creation when NOT to know.He chose NOT to know mankind would sin.

Do you not know what the definition of "omniscient" is?! So your god can create an entire universe, but only selectively be aware of what goes on in it?! I'm sorry, but that is 

Why would he bother warning him penalty of sin was death...

Because the storyline follows a fairytale and that is information that gets included in fables. Dirt people, talking snake, cursed fruit, incompetent higher power...we are not dealing with reality here.

THAT A&E understood.

How the hell would those two knuckleheads really understand what death was if it had never existed before, anywhere? P.S. They didn't die after they ate the fruit! The snake was right!