queen of nines and falcon and others

[waterbearer94]

so i don't really get the singularity... if thats true you still didn't answer my question queen of nines... where did that singularity come from? and how could something just be? if thats the case though after i die on earth what do you think will happen? do you think ill get trapped in some bad place like a hell or do you think ill cease to exist... or do you think my being will never stop and it will know that and possibly suffer for eternity

[Falconer02]

Actually Falcon9 did answer that question, though I doubt it's the answer you're looking for-

"While speaking of origin of universe scientists believe that in the beginning there was nothing. Not even space existed. What existed was singularity with zero dimensions. What existed before that singularity is not at all known. Please note that no body knows what existed before singularity."

There's no problem with saying "I don't know" if there is no real evidence to come to a scientific conclusion. Some things are just currently beyond our range of understanding. However that is no reason to just settle and say some well-defined ancient mythological diety created everything. Though speculative, some unknown metaphysical being(s) could have ignited everything, but since there is no proof of such a concept, one can peacefully settle with the mystery card. I know it's mind-boggling at times, but that is actually a reason to be happy. You live in a period in history where you have the ability to grasp such a grand and mysterious concept, and you can come to your own conclusions.

[falcon9]

Actually Falcon9 did answer that question, though I doubt it's the answer you're looking for-

"While speaking of origin of universe scientists believe that in the beginning there was nothing. Not even space existed. What existed was singularity with zero dimensions. What existed before that singularity is not at all known. Please note that no body knows what existed before singularity."

There's no problem with saying "I don't know" if there is no real evidence to come to a scientific conclusion. Some things are just currently beyond our range of understanding. However that is no reason to just settle and say some well-defined ancient mythological diety created everything.

[quote author-falcon9 link=topic41849]
More significantly, the hypothetical "deity" proposed isn't even all that well-defined.  It's more a of vaguely-nebulous concept of speciously-attributed aspects to a supernatural entity.  The contentions become largely those of false attributions of 'causes & effects'.

Though speculative, some unknown metaphysical being(s) could have ignited everything, but since there is no proof of such a concept, one can peacefully settle with the mystery card. I know it's mind-boggling at times, but that is actually a reason to be happy. You live in a period in history where you have the ability to grasp such a grand and mysterious concept, and you can come to your own conclusions.

There's also some who have speculated that the super-singularity was "g-d" and that "he" exploded, becoming the universe.  Naturally, there is zero evidence to support this speculation however, it may account for not returning metaphysical phonecalls ("prayers").

“Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.”
-- Voltaire

[queenofnines]

after i die on earth what do you think will happen? do you think ill get trapped in some bad place like a hell or do you think ill cease to exist... or do you think my being will never stop and it will know that and possibly suffer for eternity

You'll cease to exist.  "You" are 100 percent your brain, which is a physical organ.  When your brain stops working, "you" will be gone.  Your body will remain until it decomposes or is cremated.  All consciousness associated with your brain will be nonexistent, just like before you were alive.  The closest experience the average person can have to being dead is like when you are asleep at night (without vivid dreaming).  You don't remember the moment at which you slip into unconsciousness and you essentially "black out" for hours, with no recollection of time passing when you awake.  That is kind of like death will be like, but permanent.

[falcon9]

All consciousness associated with your brain will be nonexistent, just like before you were alive. 

This premise, (and the subsequent conclusion), assumes that "all conscious" awareness is associated with the physical brain.  It may or, may not be - I'm unsure if the hypothesis is testable. For instance, if there is some aspect of consciousness, (not necessarily a speculated "soul"),
which arises out of physical brain activity as an emergent property of that functional-complexity, then there's a question of whether or not such an emergent phenomenon is dependent or, independent of the physical brain.  There is evidence that synaptic brain activities cease minutes after death, (which inferentially means that any functions such as autonomic or "thought" also ceases).

One extrapolation is that "thought" is an emergent phenomenon of synaptic activities and that, if that emergent phenomenon is dependent upon continued synaptic activity, so too are any speculative emergent properties arising from the same basis.  However, there still remains no plausible way of testing whether or not some non-dependent emergent phenomenon is capable of non-physical existence after the ceasation of life.  That's usually the point where religious adherents jump in with intangible "soul" notions. 

The closest experience the average person can have to being dead is like when you are asleep at night (without vivid dreaming).  You don't remember the moment at which you slip into unconsciousness and you essentially "black out" for hours, with no recollection of time passing when you awake.  That is kind of like death will be like, but permanent.

Having seen the sleep-as-a-little-death parallel before, some thought has been given to that analogy. Like most analogies, it has a 'fail-point' when taken to the logical extreme.  This one's fail-point is that consciousness, (or, subconsciousness in the instance of sleep), remains while asleep.  Doubtless this is why "vivid", (or "lucid"), dreaming was mentioned.  Even after a sleep-cycle which no dreams were remembered, sleep studies have shown that REM evidence that dreams are still occurring, (which means that consciousness/subconsciousness remains during sleep).  One could extrapolate that either death is like an unrecalled dream, that death is like retaining conscious awareness sans a physical body or, that death isn't actually like being asleep after all and we just don't know.

[Abrupt]

All consciousness associated with your brain will be nonexistent, just like before you were alive.

Once I wasn't, then I was, now I ain't again?

I was thinking about the previous mentioning of singularities.  One of their theorized properties is the absence of time (as well as most properties of our physical universe as we understand them).  If it were possible to view someone from within the scope of a singularity, what would be seen?  To be more specific, how is time understood (or even appreciated at all) from a state of no time (where there is no before/after)? 

[falcon9]

I was thinking about the previous mentioning of singularities.  One of their theorized properties is the absence of time (as well as most properties of our physical universe as we understand them).  If it were possible to view someone from within the scope of a singularity, what would be seen?  To be more specific, how is time understood (or even appreciated at all) from a state of no time (where there is no before/after)? 

Mathematically, as a singularity's event-horizon is approached, (at least from within this universe and heading for the singularity/blackhole),
the experienced duration of "time" would slow until the event-horizon was crossed.  After that, 4-d physics doesn't apply as your mention of the "absence of time" within a singularity indicates.  What's interesting in this regard is that a posited spinning singularity, (having rotating event-horizon), could form a "donut-hole" at its center through which something material may survive the tidal forces of the rotating singularity.  Since just about everything in the physical universe is composed of mass which rotates, (from subquanta to stars), this isn't so far-fetched an idea.  Until we can get close enough to send an exploratory craft through such a 'rabbit-hole', (or, can create an artificial singularity somewhat less massive than a collapsed star), your answer will have to be awaited.

[Abrupt]

Any theories on an entangled particle passing through the event horizon?  Is entanglement persistent in such a case?

[falcon9]

Any theories on an entangled particle passing through the event horizon?  Is entanglement persistent in such a case?

I haven't seen or developed a quantum-entanglement theory as it pertains to a blackhole/singularity yet.  Both the mathematics involved in a rotating singularity and quantum-entanglement theories would need to be examined side-by-side to eliminate any invalid portions of the equations when the two are resolved as a combined equation.  However, matter has been observed to cross the event-horizons of singularities, (whereupon we lose detection of it and some assume that matter has been 'destroyed' - I don't, unless conservation of energy doesn't apply within a singularity or, being unable to discern whether or not it went 'somewhere else' instead).

I'd looked at theories pertaining to 'linked' rotating singularities, (where the speed and angular momentum factors in both were matched so that the math suggests that particles, entangled or not, would pass through like unto "StarGates" in a vague parallel way).  Until such a thing is attempted, there's no way to know.  Mathematical proofs are one thing; entering a spinning singularity's "donut-hole" and emerging intact somewhere else is quite another.

"Physics isn't a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money."
-- Leon Lederman

[potluck6]

ok i googled falcon9 yes i did and wikipedia says falcon9 is a rocket powered space flight launch system,go falcon 9,  i enjoy reading your stuff on here maybe don't want to even admit that but it's fun better than some other stuff

[falcon9]

ok i googled falcon9 yes i did and wikipedia says falcon9 is a rocket powered space flight launch system,go falcon 9,  i enjoy reading your stuff on here maybe don't want to even admit that but it's fun better than some other stuff

"In December 2008, NASA announced the selection of SpaceX's Falcon9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft to resupply the International Space Station (ISS). On May 29th, the Dragon craft was launched by Falcon9 into a docking orbit with the ISS."

Soon after this event, my gf began wanting me to call her my "ISS".
 

[Cuppycake]

Actually Falcon9 did answer that question, though I doubt it's the answer you're looking for-

"While speaking of origin of universe scientists believe that in the beginning there was nothing. Not even space existed. What existed was singularity with zero dimensions. What existed before that singularity is not at all known. Please note that no body knows what existed before singularity."

There's no problem with saying "I don't know" if there is no real evidence to come to a scientific conclusion. Some things are just currently beyond our range of understanding. However that is no reason to just settle and say some well-defined ancient mythological diety created everything.

[quote author-falcon9 link=topic41849]
More significantly, the hypothetical "deity" proposed isn't even all that well-defined.  It's more a of vaguely-nebulous concept of speciously-attributed aspects to a supernatural entity.  The contentions become largely those of false attributions of 'causes & effects'.

Though speculative, some unknown metaphysical being(s) could have ignited everything, but since there is no proof of such a concept, one can peacefully settle with the mystery card. I know it's mind-boggling at times, but that is actually a reason to be happy. You live in a period in history where you have the ability to grasp such a grand and mysterious concept, and you can come to your own conclusions.

There's also some who have speculated that the super-singularity was "g-d" and that "he" exploded, becoming the universe.  Naturally, there is zero evidence to support this speculation however, it may account for not returning metaphysical phonecalls ("prayers").

“Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.”
-- Voltaire

I have often said that if there ever was a "god" that they either are dead or really could care less. And let's be honest why should a "god" care any way ?

[falcon9]

I have often said that if there ever was a "god" that they either are dead or really could care less. And let's be honest why should a "god" care any way ?

It's a strange conceit to believe that some hypothetical "g-d" created an entire vast universe, (including a tiny speck, way off along the spiral arm of one of billions of galaxies), did some pottery and made people out of it and is somehow more intensely concerned with whether or those 'pottery-wheel' creations are "sinning"/accepting this implausible stuff than with how 99.999999999 % of the rest of the universe is doing.

The sheer hubris involved by 'believers' in that is staggering, let alone the 'religions' spawned by ignorance.

"Religion easily has the greatest bull*bleep* story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced
people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day.
And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these
ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to
live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you!"
-- George Carlin, (from his album "You Are All Diseased")

[Cuppycake]

I have often said that if there ever was a "god" that they either are dead or really could care less. And let's be honest why should a "god" care any way ?

It's a strange conceit to believe that some hypothetical "g-d" created an entire vast universe, (including a tiny speck, way off along the spiral arm of one of billions of galaxies), did some pottery and made people out of it and is somehow more intensely concerned with whether or those 'pottery-wheel' creations are "sinning"/accepting this implausible stuff than with how 99.999999999 % of the rest of the universe is doing.

The sheer hubris involved by 'believers' in that is staggering, let alone the 'religions' spawned by ignorance.

"Religion easily has the greatest bull*bleep* story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced
people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day.
And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these
ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to
live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you!"
-- George Carlin, (from his album "You Are All Diseased")

I just love your pottery reference hahaha ! Here is some pottery I made : 

Does that qualify me for "God" status as well ? lol

[Falconer02]

Hey! We have a Paper Mario fan! Awesome! Nice work!