IF it wasn't for God we would be here

[falcon9]

Falcon I am not one to argue over "one's beliefs"

And yet, here you are, arguing for your beliefs.

I just know that in MY heart there is a GOD for the simple fact that ALL that I have been threw I prayed to GOD to keep me strong

This is what was meant by arguing for your beliefs and by false attributions.  Choosing to attribute something to a vague deity without any evidence to suppor such an attribution is what makes it a false one.  Comforting or not, the only basis for it is 'faith', (which itself, has no basis).

(so here I am sill here) chugging along, didnt commit sucide like allot do, and I know that for a fact by the way when things get rough. and I contribute my strength to my prayers to GOD yes there I said it GOD. no need to argue the fact ...

As previously mentioned, it isn't a "fact" - it's a belief, (the two are far from equivalent).

nor the feel that I have to support my beliefs ...

True, there's no need to support blind faith because that would remove the 'blind' aspect of it.

you believ for what ever reason that there isnt a God and I believe that there IS that enough for me  sorry if I refuse to fuel you up about a debate but thats my story and i'm sticking to it 

One of the best ways to avoid providing fuel for a debate is to stop putting reply-logs on the fire.  Otherwise, someone's bound to bring marshmallows.

[falcon9]

I hate when you do this Falcon, i've asked you time and time again to keep things simple yet you ramble on with these words or rather the way you put words together UGH lol .............here it is only 7:30 here in Beantown and I already have a headache just reading you 

It boils down to fear(s). That, and forlorn hope.

[cateyes1]

falcon falcon falcon, ok I get it, no matter what I say you're going to tear it apart piece by piece, you have an answer for EVERYTHING.........oh and I loooooove marshmellos hahahaha 

[cateyes1]

I hate when you do this Falcon, i've asked you time and time again to keep things simple yet you ramble on with these words or rather the way you put words together UGH lol .............here it is only 7:30 here in Beantown and I already have a headache just reading you 

It boils down to fear(s). That, and forlorn hope.

forlone hope? where is a dictionary when I need one UGH....i'm going to stay clear of you from now on

[falcon9]

falcon falcon falcon, ok I get it, no matter what I say you're going to tear it apart piece by piece, you have an answer for EVERYTHING.........oh and I loooooove marshmellos hahahaha 

Welcome to D+D.  Don't let your marshmallows catch fire.

[cateyes1]

falcon falcon falcon, ok I get it, no matter what I say you're going to tear it apart piece by piece, you have an answer for EVERYTHING.........oh and I loooooove marshmellos hahahaha 

Welcome to D+D.  Don't let your marshmallows catch fire.

The heck, I wont let my marshmellos catch fire, I dont like burnt marshmellos   

[falcon9]

forlone hope? where is a dictionary when I need one [?]

"Noun: An arduous or nearly hopeless undertaking." <-- one aspect

UGH....i'm going to stay clear of you from now on

Thanks for the memories.

[cateyes1]

forlone hope? where is a dictionary when I need one [?]

"Noun: An arduous or nearly hopeless undertaking." <-- one aspect

UGH....i'm going to stay clear of you from now on

Thanks for the memories.

ANYTIME HAHAHAHA

[queenofnines]

If it wasn't for God we wouldn't be here. I was really sick and God has healed me so God is always real and never FAKE. 

If it wasn't for a million different things, you wouldn't be here.  Like if your mom claimed to have a "headache" on the day you were conceived.  Ba dum, psh!

What about the billions of people across time who god HASN'T healed?  What makes you special, hmm?

Congrats on your body doing it's job and repairing what needed to be repaired.  It's happened to me before, too.  Give credit where credit is due.

[falcon9]

If it wasn't for a million different things, you wouldn't be here.  Like if your mom claimed to have a "headache" on the day you were conceived.  Ba dum, psh!

And not one of those million of things can be accurately attributed to any 'deity', (specious beliefs notwithstanding).

What about the billions of people across time who god HASN'T healed? 

Those would be the 'infidels', (or people who go to doctors and give that a spin on the wheel of chance)?

 

[SherylsShado]

What about the billions of people across time that God hasn't healed? 

*How many of them even heard of God and prayed for healing?

*How many of them had faith in Him to believe for their healing?

*How many of them had addictions to things that would harm their health and it didn't stop them until they had a terminal diagnosis (and even then, THAT doesn't stop many).  God can certainly heal a terminal diagnosis but usually when someone has indulged in a health-harming addiction...there are consequences for partaking, it goes along with the "laws of the universe". (Sickness can also be a consequence for something else someone did wrong...it doesn't just have to be a consequence of addictions.)

*There are believers that have prayed for the salvation of loved ones and then they died from a serious illness.  Their loved ones accepted God into their lives shortly after because of the witness that their dearly departed was to them.  While these deceased may have prayed for healing when they were alive...ultimately they wanted their loved ones to find God and by His plan, they did.

*How many of them just expected that a prayer to God would be a "quick fix" rather than try to do something for themselves?  (Example: the busy carpenter who owns his own construction business.  He knows he's having problems but rather than go see a doctor, he prays and keeps working.  He dies from prostate cancer a short time later because he put off going to the doctor for too long.)

*Noone gets out of this life alive, everyone is going to die from something.  Sickness & death wasn't part of God's original plan. What sense would it really make for God to heal everyone just to have them die again from something else later?

[falcon9]

"What about the billions of people across time that God hasn't healed?" 

*How many of them even heard of God and prayed for healing?

That's irrelavent since at least some of them purportly had others 'praying for healing' and they died anyway.

*How many of them had faith in Him to believe for their healing?

No wonder the question of 'faith' was in the "Payments" section of FC; such 'payment' is apparently implicit.

*How many of them had addictions to things that would harm their health and it didn't stop them until they had a terminal diagnosis (and even then, THAT doesn't stop many).  God can certainly heal a terminal diagnosis but usually when someone has indulged in a health-harming addiction...there are consequences for partaking, it goes along with the "laws of the universe". (Sickness can also be a consequence for something else someone did wrong...it doesn't just have to be a consequence of addictions.)

What happened to your contention about making unreasonably unrealistic 'prayer requests'?

*There are believers that have prayed for the salvation of loved ones and then they died from a serious illness.  

This would appear to indicate that the 'prayers for healing' failed.

*How many of them just expected that a prayer to God would be a "quick fix" rather than try to do something for themselves?  (Example: the busy carpenter who owns his own construction business.  He knows he's having problems but rather than go see a doctor, he prays and keeps working.  He dies from prostate cancer a short time later because he put off going to the doctor for too long.)

Yet, going to the doctor would mean a potential medical solution, (rather than one which could be attributed to 'prayer').  Whereas neither procedure is necessarily a "quick fix", the example presents a false dichotomy nonetheless.

*Noone gets out of this life alive, everyone is going to die from something.  Sickness & death wasn't part of God's original plan.

There is no evidence of such a "plan", (references to the 'bible' are not examples factual evidence).

What sense would it really make for God to heal everyone just to have them die again from something else later?

Why bother 'praying for healing' at all in that case?

[SherylsShado]

That's irrelavent since at least some of them purportly had others 'praying for healing' and they died anyway.

God doesn't infringe on other's "free will", so if that person didn't actually pray for healing themselves then...

No wonder the question of 'faith' was in the "Payments" section of FC; such 'payment' is apparently implicit.

WHY should God heal anyone that doesn't have faith in Him?  Satan can heal too, why didn't he heal the billions of people across time??

What happened to your contention about making unreasonably unrealistic 'prayer requests'?

It still stands.  Examples: A Believer that wants a house but has no money has every right as a Believer to pray for a house, to find the house they want and to verbally claim it and expect God to deliver the "goods" if it's His Will. -VS-  A believer that is married decides to diovorce their spouse and marry their spouse's best friend instead.  A few short years later, that person has terminal cancer.  According to the Bible, the reason for the divorce was not "valid".  It could very well be that that sickness was a result of disobedience to God.  They can pray for healing  but in their hearts...they know they disobeyed and that always comes with a price to pay.


[/quote]*There are believers that have prayed for the salvation of loved ones and then they died from a serious illness.   

This would appear to indicate that the 'prayers for healing' failed.
 

The prayers for healing failed but their prayers for anothers salvation was answered and ultimately, that would be what mattered most to the deceased anyway.

Yet, going to the doctor would mean a potential medical solution, (rather than one which could be attributed to 'prayer').  Whereas neither procedure is necessarily a "quick fix", the example presents a false dichotomy nonetheless.

  I know a guy that did just that, he was too busy to go to the doctor until it was too late.  His family was praying for him and when he died, his son now hates God for not healing him.  God gave that man a brain and several warning signs, he should have gone to the doctor.  God doesn't stop anyone from doing something stupid.  He isn't obligated to heal them if they do.

Why bother 'praying for healing' at all in that case?

  Because sickness/afflictions happen that aren't in God's plan.  Sickness/afflictions happen that is the result of satan trying to keep a person in bondage.  That can be healed.

[falcon9]

That's irrelavent since at least some of them purportly had others 'praying for healing' and they died anyway.

God doesn't infringe on other's "free will", so if that person didn't actually pray for healing themselves then...

... then, others 'praying' to "heal" someone else would be ineffectual.

No wonder the question of 'faith' was in the "Payments" section of FC; such 'payment' is apparently implicit.

WHY should God heal anyone that doesn't have faith in Him? 

It couldn't be that such a "god" is purportedly 'kind' enough to do so without such 'payment' but, apparently not.

Satan can heal too, why didn't he heal the billions of people across time??

As a ventured guess; because "satan" isn't purportedly a 'kind' fellow.  If you are getting at an implied 'depends on who is worshipped' premise, the same contention applies in that there isn't any accurate way to attribute any such "healing" to "satan" or "god".
 

What happened to your contention about making unreasonably unrealistic 'prayer requests'?

It still stands. It could very well be that that sickness was a result of disobedience to God. 

"It could well be ... " is a speculative attribution without substanstive basis.

*There are believers that have prayed for the salvation of loved ones and then they died from a serious illness. 
  

This would appear to indicate that the 'prayers for healing' failed.

The prayers for healing failed but their prayers for anothers salvation was answered and ultimately, that would be what mattered most to the deceased anyway.

On the contrary, there's not a shred of evidence to support a contention that such "salvation prayers" wre answered.  How would you know?

Yet, going to the doctor would mean a potential medical solution, (rather than one which could be attributed to 'prayer').  Whereas neither procedure is necessarily a "quick fix", the example presents a false dichotomy nonetheless.

 

I know a guy that did just that, he was too busy to go to the doctor until it was too late.  His family was praying for him and when he died, his son now hates God for not healing him.  God gave that man a brain and several warning signs, he should have gone to the doctor.  God doesn't stop anyone from doing something stupid.  He isn't obligated to heal them if they do.

Firstly, there is no evidence to support the contentions that "god gave that man a brain and several warning signs".  These contentions have the form of an unfounded belief since people are nominally born with brains, sans any direct attribution to a 'creator', (other than a person's parents). Secondly, doing something stupid or wise is up to the free-willed person and not some externally-posited 'deity'.

Why bother 'praying for healing' at all in that case?

 

Because sickness/afflictions happen that aren't in God's plan. 

Unless you happen to have an unabridged copy of such a "plan", this is an unfounded belief, (and if you do have such a copy, can you fax it to me for perusal?)

Sickness/afflictions happen that is the result of satan trying to keep a person in bondage. 

By now, you can probably guess that such a belief constitutes an unfounded claim, (lacks evidentiary basis and relies instead upon 'faith').  It is however, curious that such is considered to be "bondage" to "satan" while the same "bondage" concept must then apply to worshipping "god".

[SherylsShado]

... then, others 'praying' to "heal" someone else would be ineffectual.

...it would depend on what the afflicted one's will was, and the condition of their heart toward God and their level of faith.

It couldn't be that such a "god" is purportedly 'kind' enough to do so without such 'payment' but, apparently not.

Again, WHY should He?  He's under no obligation whatsoever.  He gave his only Son to be nailed to a cross for everyone, I would think that should be more than enough and it's not even appreciated by most...so why should He have to keep doing anything more?

As a ventured guess; because "satan" isn't purportedly a 'kind' fellow.  If you are getting at an implied 'depends on who is worshipped' premise, the same contention applies in that there isn't any accurate way to attribute any such "healing" to "satan" or "god".

Oh, but there is.  Anyone that brags/advertises about themselves having "healing powers" and that it's a "gift from God" typically either has a mental affliction or satan is working through them.  How do I know?  Because Believers that have healing capabilities give God all the glory and the praise-- they don't brag about themselves "being able to heal".

"It could well be ... " is a speculative attribution without substanstive basis.

I chose those words because when it comes to prayer---everyone has a different opinion.  There's no "black & white" answer when it comes to "why was Mary healed and Krissy wasn't"?  Only God knows...the only thing anyone else can do is "speculate". 

On the contrary, there's not a shred of evidence to support a contention that such "salvation prayers" wre answered.  How would you know?

  I would know because it happened in my family.  My aunt had a weak heart.  She had three sons that had been brought up in church and all three of them were a heart-break for her.  One was a drug-addict, one was in trouble all the time with the police and the third was an alcoholic.  She had told us she was praying for those boys' (teenagers) salvation.  She loved them and that's all she wanted was for them to re-find the Lord.  She died in an abulance on the way to the hospital, it was sudden and
unexpected because even though she had a weak heart...noone thought she'd die so young.  The youngest son right away started back to church and got into a program to help him get off the drugs.  Within two years, the middle son starting going to a church and re-dedicated his life to the Lord.  It took almost twelve years for the oldest son to go back to God, he still had a few years there where he really battled the alcohol.  All three boys have said they knew she had been praying for them, they had heard her many nights praying for hours...and they wanted to see her again someday in Heaven.  I know her and would think that if she were asked if she would rather come back to earth or let the boys keep their salvation, she would chose to stay in Heaven.  A "healing" of a weak heart only lasts a lifetime, a salvation of her sons will last an eternity.

Firstly, there is no evidence to support the contentions that "god gave that man a brain and several warning signs".  These contentions have the form of an unfounded belief since people are nominally born with brains, sans any direct attribution to a 'creator', (other than a person's parents). Secondly, doing something stupid or wise is up to the free-willed person and not some externally-posited 'deity'.

Yes, I should have known that the moment I forgot to mention that the guy could have gotten his "brain & warning signs"' from his parents, it would be pointed out.  Considering how his brain "worked", yes...he probably did get that from his parents.  It was his "free will" to ignore all the warning signs...God isn't going to stop anyone from making a mistake.  There are consequences for being stupid.  His is called "R.I.P".

Unless you happen to have an unabridged copy of such a "plan", this is an unfounded belief, (and if you do have such a copy, can you fax it to me for perusal?)

I'll refer you to Genesis and you can show me where it says that anyone or any living thing had sickness, illness, death, afflictions before Eve & Adam screwed things up.  (*Also note that in the description of Heaven, the Bible says there will be NO sickness implying that any sickness does not come from God.)

By now, you can probably guess that such a belief constitutes an unfounded claim, (lacks evidentiary basis and relies instead upon 'faith').  It is however, curious that such is considered to be "bondage" to "satan" while the same "bondage" concept must then apply to worshipping "god".

  lacks "evidentiary basis and relies instead upon faith"??  Huh?  I don't have to use faith, I wouldn't even have to be a Believer to see that the alcoholic is in bondage, the "druggie" is in bondage, the glutton, the prostitutes, the mentally ill. the child predators/molestors, serial killers, etc. are in bondage and it sure isn't to God.  God can heal people of these things.  People do not get into "bondage" with these things because they were following God.  Bondage to satan is just that and he won't give up any soul he's claimed as his easily.  Bondage to God?  No..."He whom the Son sets free---is free indeed". (John 8:36)