If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, do you still celebrate Christmas?

[falcon9]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

This link does seem to provide more "gory" detail for both the pagan side and the Christian side, in what they did to people, including acting above the law (or rather they called it "lawlessness.")  The main thing, if you are really wanting to figure this out, is to study both sides of the groups involved.  In my previous post, I said I felt people should study and make their own decisions whether or not to celebrate our holidays. 

Many of our holidays seem to be derived from pagan origins, but there again, according to today's celebrations and what they now stand for, most holidays include families/friends coming together for special meals, quality time together, honoring certain people (such as birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day), celebrating: Jesus's birth (Christmas; although there are people who don't,) Thanksgiving (began by Pilgrims and Native Americans,) July 4th (Independence Day for America,) Valentine's Day, and others.  They are not just holidays or special days, they include traditions that make these days special.  However, it is the individual's and the families' decisions to acknowledge and participate or not.

From that link: "In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians."


That's an inherent deceit against the pagans of that time.  No matter what the appropriated 'holiday' consists of nowadays, it is based upon deceptions.

[jcribb16]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

This link does seem to provide more "gory" detail for both the pagan side and the Christian side, in what they did to people, including acting above the law (or rather they called it "lawlessness.")  The main thing, if you are really wanting to figure this out, is to study both sides of the groups involved.  In my previous post, I said I felt people should study and make their own decisions whether or not to celebrate our holidays. 

Many of our holidays seem to be derived from pagan origins, but there again, according to today's celebrations and what they now stand for, most holidays include families/friends coming together for special meals, quality time together, honoring certain people (such as birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day), celebrating: Jesus's birth (Christmas; although there are people who don't,) Thanksgiving (began by Pilgrims and Native Americans,) July 4th (Independence Day for America,) Valentine's Day, and others.  They are not just holidays or special days, they include traditions that make these days special.  However, it is the individual's and the families' decisions to acknowledge and participate or not.

From that link: "In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians."


That's an inherent deceit against the pagans of that time.  No matter what the appropriated 'holiday' consists of nowadays, it is based upon deceptions.

So what is your point?  What is it you want people to do?  If you do or don't want to celebrate them, that's your choice.  Everyone else can make their choice.

[Getinonthis]

There's a lot of things that people do in recognition to Jesus Christ without even noticing it.
Ignorance is bliss, monkey see monkey do, people are like a leaf blowing in the wind until they
come across something that seems to wake them up.
I personally believe in Jesus, and have I do celebrate Christmas. My focus is not on the day of
which I celebrate his birth, but on the purpose of his birth. Merry Christmas!!

[falcon9]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

This link does seem to provide more "gory" detail for both the pagan side and the Christian side, in what they did to people, including acting above the law (or rather they called it "lawlessness.")  The main thing, if you are really wanting to figure this out, is to study both sides of the groups involved.  In my previous post, I said I felt people should study and make their own decisions whether or not to celebrate our holidays.  

Many of our holidays seem to be derived from pagan origins, but there again, according to today's celebrations and what they now stand for, most holidays include families/friends coming together for special meals, quality time together, honoring certain people (such as birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day), celebrating: Jesus's birth (Christmas; although there are people who don't,) Thanksgiving (began by Pilgrims and Native Americans,) July 4th (Independence Day for America,) Valentine's Day, and others.  They are not just holidays or special days, they include traditions that make these days special.  However, it is the individual's and the families' decisions to acknowledge and participate or not.

From that link: "In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians."


That's an inherent deceit against the pagans of that time.  No matter what the appropriated 'holiday' consists of nowadays, it is based upon deceptions.

So what is your point?  What is it you want people to do?  If you do or don't want to celebrate them, that's your choice.  Everyone else can make their choice.

I'm not making any recommendations as to other people's choices.  I'm simply pointing out that the 'xtian holiday' presented in modern times is a direct rip-off/appropriation/plagiarism/cultural theft of other pre-existant cultures.  These factors can be disregarded as willed however, the fact remains that the basis of xtianity is dishonesty and theft while it it celebrated today by giving gifts, (out of subliminal guilt?).

[jcribb16]

There's a lot of things that people do in recognition to Jesus Christ without even noticing it.
Ignorance is bliss, monkey see monkey do, people are like a leaf blowing in the wind until they
come across something that seems to wake them up.
I personally believe in Jesus, and have I do celebrate Christmas. My focus is not on the day of
which I celebrate his birth, but on the purpose of his birth. Merry Christmas!!

I like the way you put this.  It's the focus that is of importance of why we celebrate certain holidays.

[jcribb16]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

This link does seem to provide more "gory" detail for both the pagan side and the Christian side, in what they did to people, including acting above the law (or rather they called it "lawlessness.")  The main thing, if you are really wanting to figure this out, is to study both sides of the groups involved.  In my previous post, I said I felt people should study and make their own decisions whether or not to celebrate our holidays. 

Many of our holidays seem to be derived from pagan origins, but there again, according to today's celebrations and what they now stand for, most holidays include families/friends coming together for special meals, quality time together, honoring certain people (such as birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day), celebrating: Jesus's birth (Christmas; although there are people who don't,) Thanksgiving (began by Pilgrims and Native Americans,) July 4th (Independence Day for America,) Valentine's Day, and others.  They are not just holidays or special days, they include traditions that make these days special.  However, it is the individual's and the families' decisions to acknowledge and participate or not.

From that link: "In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians."


That's an inherent deceit against the pagans of that time.  No matter what the appropriated 'holiday' consists of nowadays, it is based upon deceptions.

So what is your point?  What is it you want people to do?  If you do or don't want to celebrate them, that's your choice.  Everyone else can make their choice.

I'm not making any recommendations as to other people's choices.  I'm simply pointing out that the 'xtian holiday' presented in modern times is a direct rip-off/appropriation/plagiarism/cultural theft of other pre-existant culturals.  These factors can be disregarded as willed however, the fact remains that the basis of xtianity is dishonesty and theft while it it celebrated today by giving gifts, (out of subliminal guilt?).

Considering the fact that these celebrations have been here before our time of today, you have to agree there are a majority of people who have no idea whatsoever of the pagans vs. Christians of centuries ago.  People enjoy the celebrations of today, albeit some are way too commercialized.  They enjoy the traditions associated with today and hearts are involved in the emotions, humor, love, etc. of the meanings of these days.  You've got a lot of work to do if you are going to try and convince people to disregard these holidays.

Both sides (pagans and Christians) were wrong in some of what they did, especially to innocent or despised people.  Paganism is being brought back into some churches of today - certain practices or rites.  So, the line has to be drawn somewhere and decisions made one way or the other.  At least with today's traditions of holidays, there is a goodness and heartfelt joy within many homes, churches, families, friends, children, and many more.

[falcon9]

Paganism is being brought back into some churches of today - certain practices or rites.  So, the line has to be drawn somewhere and decisions made one way or the other. 

What sort of line has to drawn?  Something that separates or, distinguishes xtianity from pagainsm?

At least with today's traditions of holidays, there is a goodness and heartfelt joy within many homes, churches, families, friends, children, and many more.[/color]

It does seem possible to have a nominally secular holiday without too many overtones but, it might be nice to call it winter solstice once again.

[jcribb16]

Paganism is being brought back into some churches of today - certain practices or rites.  So, the line has to be drawn somewhere and decisions made one way or the other. 

What sort of line has to drawn?  Something that separates or, distinguishes xtianity from pagainsm?

At least with today's traditions of holidays, there is a goodness and heartfelt joy within many homes, churches, families, friends, children, and many more.[/color]

It does seem possible to have a nominally secular holiday without too many overtones but, it might be nice to call it winter solstice once again.

I followed that comment up with "decisions made one way or the other."  The majority of people are on the side of the line who choose to celebrate whether they know about the origins or not.  Another thing to remember is this doesn't take place just in America, but all over the world , with slight changes in which some things are added, done a little differently, etc. 

[falcon9]

Paganism is being brought back into some churches of today - certain practices or rites.  So, the line has to be drawn somewhere and decisions made one way or the other. 

What sort of line has to drawn?  Something that separates or, distinguishes xtianity from pagainsm?

At least with today's traditions of holidays, there is a goodness and heartfelt joy within many homes, churches, families, friends, children, and many more.[/color]

It does seem possible to have a nominally secular holiday without too many overtones but, it might be nice to call it winter solstice once again.

I followed that comment up with "decisions made one way or the other." 

Indeed you did, including a preceding comment referring to unspecified "certain practices or rites" which sparked the notion that even secular celebrants would be unlikely to want a restitution of the full Roman holiday of Saturnalia.  No doubt you were obliquely referring to some other pagan practices and rites?

[JediJohnnie]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

[falcon9]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

That is incorrect.  The tree was preceded by "yule" celebrations, a pagan holiday which takes place on the day of the winter solstice, around December 21 and preceded the xtian holiday by centuries.  In turn, yule was preceded by druid and other pagan practices by several more centuries.  All this goes to substantiate the fact that xtianity was composed of cultural thieves who were apparently engaged in a practice of co-opting other religious practices in order to suppress/absorb them.  No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

[Falconer02]

No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

As a result of knowing this, a few of my friends and I now call it "Giftmas".

[falcon9]

No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

As a result of knowing this, a few of my friends and I now call it "Giftmas".

Bucking any stereotypes extant, I've got a hispanic friend who refers to xmas as "no mas".

[Falconer02]

lolololol

[JediJohnnie]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

That is incorrect.  The tree was preceded by "yule" celebrations, a pagan holiday which takes place on the day of the winter solstice, around December 21 and preceded the xtian holiday by centuries.  In turn, yule was preceded by druid and other pagan practices by several more centuries.  All this goes to substantiate the fact that xtianity was composed of cultural thieves who were apparently engaged in a practice of co-opting other religious practices in order to suppress/absorb them.  No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

The fact that pagans used a tree in their festivities (by your admission) centuries before Christians has no correlation to the fact that Christians used the evergreen as a symbol of Christ's eternal life in the 15th or 16th century.There was no competition with Saturnalia festivals at that point.