daily Bible verse

[jcribb16]

Phil 4:8:  "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

[jcribb16]

As Yahweh's holy people, Israel must conduct warfare in a way pleasing to him

Then you've admitted he's ludicrously malevolent to the point where one could conclude he has a pain fetish.

God ordered the herem, the complete destruction of cities, to avoid the corruption of his people

That sounds like another famous tyrannical monster in recent history.

First, the Canaanites were not going to change for the better,

This is just another contradiction to the basic laws of free will. It's like saying "Despite slow-moving international pressure, I know Iran is never going to change their view of the world, so it's completely alright to nuke them now."

The Old Testament lists many examples of God using armies and war as His tool for justice against evil nations, such as the one you are questioning. Like JediJohnnie mentioned, many times God told the Israelites to first offer a peace treaty to a targeted nation, but if they refused peace, then war was granted (“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace” – Deuteronomy 20:10).  These nations had harmed the Israelites, including killing and violence of them and their families, including children.  It was also the promised land that God had promised the Israelites, and had the peace treaty been granted, war would have been avoided.

One example I know that would be considered similar, is the war with Hitler.  If the war had not taken place, how many more millions would he and his supporters have murdered and had killed?  The targeted nation in Deuteronomy was similar, in that the people who lived there would have proceeded to kill more if they had the opportunity. 

Another example would be the American Civil War.  If it had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

I agree there are seemingly always innocents involved in wars - that part seems very unfair to the innocents.  But we are not privy or apparently that wise to perhaps know the overall bigger picture involved with certain wars and why they happen the way they do.

Speaking of innocents, it's a very unjust war or nation of certain people who would strap bombs or dynamite to their children, so the children walk wherever told, and they sacrifice their lives to kill the "enemy" that the nation doesn't like.  Where in the world is their compassion for their own children?  That is cold-hearted and evil, for sure.

[JediJohnnie]

 

[Falconer02]

many times God told the Israelites to first offer a peace treaty to a targeted nation, but if they refused peace, then war was granted

You're talking about an ancient time where this god was showing up 'physically' and doing stuff to uneducated people. All a kind and loving deity would need to do is shake his fist at these targeted nations. Instead he willingly allows bloodshed. There's really no way of getting around the obvious- for either side, this is extremely immoral and tyrannical behavior that any person with an ounce of morality can see. Why the believers can't see this is ridiculous and it says a lot about them. When you introduce a medium that has the ability to end suffering, but willingly does not, that is dispicable.

As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.
-Jacques Chirac

If the war had not taken place, how many more millions would he and his supporters have murdered and had killed?

Much like the verses, Hitler marched into neighboring nations (Poland for example) that refused his offers of peace via them bending over for him.

If it had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

Your god condones slavery.

it's a very unjust war or nation of certain people who would strap bombs or dynamite to their children, so the children walk wherever told, and they sacrifice their lives to kill the "enemy" that the nation doesn't like.  Where in the world is their compassion for their own children?  That is cold-hearted and evil, for sure.

May I remind you that the same people you talk of here believe in the same god you do and use it to justify these killings (just with a different off-shoot of the mythology surrounding it). Though some do it for what they deem "the greater good", to not say both viewpoints are wrong is extremely immoral.

Pointless picture

Who's talking about atheism? We're talking about questionable ethics here. Get back on track, shortround.

[hitch0403]

many times God told the Israelites to first offer a peace treaty to a targeted nation, but if they refused peace, then war was granted

You're talking about an ancient time where this god was showing up 'physically' and doing stuff to uneducated people. All a kind and loving deity would need to do is shake his fist at these targeted nations. Instead he willingly allows bloodshed. There's really no way of getting around the obvious- for either side, this is extremely immoral and tyrannical behavior that any person with an ounce of morality can see. Why the believers can't see this is ridiculous and it says a lot about them. When you introduce a medium that has the ability to end suffering, but willingly does not, that is dispicable.

As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.
-Jacques Chirac

If the war had not taken place, how many more millions would he and his supporters have murdered and had killed?

Much like the verses, Hitler marched into neighboring nations (Poland for example) that refused his offers of peace via them bending over for him.

If it had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

Your god condones slavery.

it's a very unjust war or nation of certain people who would strap bombs or dynamite to their children, so the children walk wherever told, and they sacrifice their lives to kill the "enemy" that the nation doesn't like.  Where in the world is their compassion for their own children?  That is cold-hearted and evil, for sure.

May I remind you that the same people you talk of here believe in the same god you do and use it to justify these killings (just with a different off-shoot of the mythology surrounding it). Though some do it for what they deem "the greater good", to not say both viewpoints are wrong is extremely immoral.

Pointless picture

Who's talking about atheism? We're talking about questionable ethics here. Get back on track, shortround.
As a God of justice who exacts exclusive devotion, Jehovah could not allow these disgusting practices to disrupt the peace and security of innocent people, especially Israel (De.5:9).

Further, when God had righteous people destroy those unrepentant murders and child sacrificers He ALWAYS gave them warning and provided a way out for those willing to change! (Jer.7:25,26; Eze.18:23,32.)

[hitch0403]

While Jehovah allowed ancient Israel to engage in warfare under His direction, with the establishing of the Christian congregation, a new situation came into existence. The purpose for which Jehovah allowed for his "holy wars" had come to its end. Christ's followers were now to make disciples of people of all nations. So worshippers of the True God would in time be found in all those nations. All of Christ's followers were spiritual brothers, now located all over the earth. Jesus said these worshippers of the True God would be known for the love they had for each other.

If true Christians in one nation were to go to war against another nation, they would be fighting against fellow believers, against people who prayed for help to the same God that they did. Appropriately, Christ directed his followers to lay down the sword (Mt. 26:52). He himself, glorified in the heavens, would henceforth carry out the execution of those who showed defiance of the true God and His will (2Thes. 1:6-8; Rev.19:11-21).

Therefore, Christians would not take part in any warfare. It is Satan who characteristically promotes killing (Jn.8:44; 1Jn.3:.

[jcribb16]

many times God told the Israelites to first offer a peace treaty to a targeted nation, but if they refused peace, then war was granted

You're talking about an ancient time where this god was showing up 'physically' and doing stuff to uneducated people. All a kind and loving deity would need to do is shake his fist at these targeted nations. Instead he willingly allows bloodshed. There's really no way of getting around the obvious- for either side, this is extremely immoral and tyrannical behavior that any person with an ounce of morality can see. Why the believers can't see this is ridiculous and it says a lot about them. When you introduce a medium that has the ability to end suffering, but willingly does not, that is dispicable.

As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.
-Jacques Chirac

If the war had not taken place, how many more millions would he and his supporters have murdered and had killed?

Much like the verses, Hitler marched into neighboring nations (Poland for example) that refused his offers of peace via them bending over for him.

If it had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

Your god condones slavery.

it's a very unjust war or nation of certain people who would strap bombs or dynamite to their children, so the children walk wherever told, and they sacrifice their lives to kill the "enemy" that the nation doesn't like.  Where in the world is their compassion for their own children?  That is cold-hearted and evil, for sure.

May I remind you that the same people you talk of here believe in the same god you do and use it to justify these killings (just with a different off-shoot of the mythology surrounding it). Though some do it for what they deem "the greater good", to not say both viewpoints are wrong is extremely immoral.

Pointless picture

Who's talking about atheism? We're talking about questionable ethics here. Get back on track, shortround.

But what you are implying would be to say it was okay for the Midianites to continually kill the Israelites, their children, and their livestock, take their food, etc.
The Midianites had been warned repeatedly by God to stop their wicked behavior to the Israelites, and they refused to stop.  The Israelites offered a peace treaty and the Midianites refused.  So, the Israelites did what they had to, to stop the evil happening to their people.

As with Hitler, those people he ruled over were not hurting anyone for him to do what he did, only because he wanted a "pure" race.  Rather, Hitler was similar, in wickedness, to the Midianites.  He was the evil one.  The Midianites were the evil ones.  You cannot take a portion of scripture and only discuss and blame the situation when there is more to the story.

According to New Testament, God does not condone slavery.  Even in the Old Testament, slaves under people who followed God, still had rules about how they were to be treated from their owners.  They were to be respected and treated kindly.  There's a lot to learn about slavery in the Old Testament compared with the New Testament.  Yes, there were slave owners who were mean, just like before the Civil War in America.  They were in the wrong to be treated as such from the mean ones.

The group who tie bombs or dynamite do not accept Jesus Christ as Savior.  Christ is our way through to God.  They don't believe that.  They are still living in the Old Testament ways of doing some things.  Christ says we are to also "love our enemies," and they refuse to follow that commandment because they refuse to accept Christ.  So, they are not worshiping God as Lord - there's a divide there between them and God, and until they accept Christ, they are not even serving God as Christians know God to be.

[hitch0403]

Also..a good example of Gods patience was He let listened to Abraham before he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrhea.

Falconer2 that was for you.Look it up in Genesis how the patience of God was if Abraham was to find any righteous people there after Abraham questioned if God was going to sweep away the righteous with the wicked .

Gen 18:23

[falcon9]

Also..a good example of Gods patience

How can hypothetical supernatural entities have anything more than hypothetical "patience" or, any other anthropormorphic attribute?

[falcon9]

"Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue."

Yet, the bible-thumpers do not keep silent , thus removing all doubt about their foolishness.

Why should believers have to stay silent when sharing something we enjoy with others who would or might enjoy the same?  That's not what the verse means.  Standing up for or defending my beliefs does not meant I have to stay silent as well.

That's incorrect; staying "silent" is unamibiguous - it means not talking/writing, (apparently sign-language slips through a crack in that metaphysical injunction).  The specious supertitiously-based "verse" says nothing whatsoever of "standing up for or defending" religious beliefs, (the inherently-biased additional 'reinterpretation' is random, self-serving and summarily disregarding as illogical).

[2getherwewin]

2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[anitaraemillspalmer]

But all is well for the godly man. Tell him, "What reward a you are going to get!"  Isaiah 5:10 (The Living Bible)

Do not say, "I will repay evil," wait for the Lord and he will deliver you    This passage has been very helpful to me...I have had to deal with some real con men in my life and have wondered about payback but this says it all and I believe  

[hitch0403]

But all is well for the godly man. Tell him, "What reward a you are going to get!"  Isaiah 5:10 (The Living Bible)

Do not say, "I will repay evil," wait for the Lord and he will deliver you    This passage has been very helpful to me...I have had to deal with some real con men in my life and have wondered about payback but this says it all and I believe  

Galatians 5:22 would enforce that about the fruitage of the spirit

[falcon9]

"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

Blind religious faith does not 'renew' the mind; it blinds it to reason and leaves it stumbling through the darkness of irrational belief.

[Falconer02]

But what you are implying would be to say it was okay for the Midianites to continually kill the Israelites, their children, and their livestock, take their food, etc.
The Midianites had been warned repeatedly by God to stop their wicked behavior to the Israelites, and they refused to stop.  The Israelites offered a peace treaty and the Midianites refused.  So, the Israelites did what they had to, to stop the evil happening to their people.

Well then put 'em in the phantom zone or something and make them have a time out! lol Perhaps you know why the Midianites were being so awful to the Israelites? A just leader does not order the other side to slaughter and enslave opposition. That's terrible! Again, when you place a deity in a story like this, it makes it prone to gigantic errors in judgement. If he's able to stop such horrible things, yet does not, that is malice.

As with Hitler, those people he ruled over were not hurting anyone for him to do what he did, only because he wanted a "pure" race. 

The great flood ring a bell? Not to jump around, but Hitler convinced his followers that the jews were evil just as your god convinced his select few that the rest of the world was evil.

Rather, Hitler was similar, in wickedness, to the Midianites.  He was the evil one.  The Midianites were the evil ones.  You cannot take a portion of scripture and only discuss and blame the situation when there is more to the story.

I believe the Hitler example is a weak one because it can be applied to both sides of this argument. I'm concentrating on the words used though-- it's not necessarily the background of the situation in this story, but what the orders specifically were and how immoral and illogical (due to a deity being introduced) they are.

God does not condone slavery.  Even in the Old Testament, slaves under people who followed God, still had rules about how they were to be treated from their owners.

Incorrect- if you have rules about slaves, you condone slavery. If you take the OT as true history and quote it, you acknowledge slavery. If you have a rule in your rule book stating you can beat your slaves, you forfeit the moral position. I'm aware that the slave trade in our nation's past was completely immoral. Even if said slaves were treated decently, no human has the right to own another human being.

The group who tie bombs or dynamite do not accept Jesus Christ as Savior.  Christ is our way through to God.  They don't believe that.  They are still living in the Old Testament ways of doing some things.

I am in partial agreement with you here, but considering how a lot of xtians act in the present and especially in the past, I will have to disagree as they are/were obviously living with the same foundations.