bin Laden

[amyrouse]

I posted these thoughts on facebook tonight, and I wanted to share them with FC as well.

The thing is...Osama bin Laden was a horrible human being.  He was a threat to our country.  This outcome was inevitable.  However, it gives me a sick feeling to celebrate the death of a man, any man, no matter what type of person they were.  Human life is human life.  The second that we lose all sense of the enormity of what has happened here, then we lose our humanity as well.
 
 I am relieved that he is dead, but I'm also scared.  There are so many out there who are on the other end of the spectrum.  One death does not a victory make.  This is not Harry Potter, and bin Laden was not Voldemort.  He did not have his followers imperiused... how many of them are following him of their own accord, and how many of them are ready to retaliate?  
 
I have to say, though, that there were a couple of things that have relieved me in Obama's speech, and a couple of things that scared me even more.  Did anyone else see the fear in Obama's eyes?  What about the look in his eyes when he told the country that this process began with intelligence last August?  Nine months.  How huge is that?  Others may try to claim credit here, but... words escape me.  
 
I am reminded of the morning after Obama won the election back in 2008 and the look in the man's eyes when he was let in on the information that only the President is privy to.  I feel the same fear.  There is so much that we do not know, and Obama's eyes speak volumes to that fact.


I also wanted to share this:

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." G.W. Bush 3-13-2002. Transcript of the press conference here: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=65091#axzz1LAP6mzbo

"We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority," Barack Obama. 10-07-2008.

Thank you US forces, and thank you Mr. President.

**************************************************************

edited to add: video of Obama's speech and transcript.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead

[gaylasue]

Amen!  Many praises to our armed forces!  And a big brownie point for the President.

[Falconer02]

I did not consider Osama Bin Laden a human being. He was a horrific warmongering zealot monster. That is why I am glad that he is dead and I'd spit on his corpse if I were near it. I also do not think his forces are going to just crumble after this, and I do think there might be some retaliation. That does not scare me much though because I'm one to think that if America is still scared of these idiots, their destructive ideals still live on. I noticed today that there was a vague sense of relief in the air when people talked about it, so that makes me feel good. SEAL team 6 FTW!

Mark Twain: 'I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.'

[Hope858910]

I totally agree. He was a human being and its not right to celebrate death. I am sad that it had to come down to him being murdered but I am happy its over with. Now they need to bring our troops home.

[amyrouse]

I felt relief as well, Falconer.  And I'm not saying he was a good human being.  I try not to put myself in a position where I pass judgments on whether one deserves to live or die, but I honestly believe that if anyone deserved death it was bin Laden.

I just can't help but feel, though, that celebrating his death in the streets make us no better than those who celebrated the attacks on 9/11.  We're not savages; we're proud to be Americans, citizens of a civilized country.  We, however, do not share the same viewpoint as everyone.  Bin Laden capitalized on the view that Americans were savages that wanted to destroy Islam and were deserving of death.  What is celebrating in the streets doing other than proving him right?

There is a difference between welcoming his death and celebrating it.  I am not sorry he is dead.  I am sorry about the reactions I've been seeing, though.  It isn't up to me to pass judgment on him, but as a human being, I can't help that part of me.  I've had a sick feeling in my stomach since I heard the news last night because of this.

[cubarican210]

I'm still in shock and I won't believe it until they dig up his body from the sea and present it to us. I'm sorry but the same way they showed Saddam Hussein getting hanged on national television. They should at least show the remains of Osama's body for us to be completely sure that it was done. If it did indeed happen, then I'm sorry he had to die, but if this is what would bring closure to the American people then so be it. I hope the survivors and the families of 9/11 victims are not to deal with something like this ever again. It was a great tragedy that the whole nation felt. I still remember that day and where I was when it happened. It's such a shame that it took ten years for him to be found. Just to lighten up the subject. Now you all know if a woman had been cheated on by this man, he would have been found in 24 hrs. just saying.

[walksalone11]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20059037-503543.html




"Geronimo E-KIA." Those words were heard in the Situation Room when Osama bin Laden was killed by bullets to the head and chest. Geronimo was the code name given by U.S. officials for bin Laden; E-KIA stands for "Enemy Killed In Action."

Apparently the code namers thought of bin Laden as a 21st century equivalent of the Chiricahua Apache leader, who waged battles against the Mexico and the United States, countries engaged in colonizing Indian lands.

Like bin Laden, Geronimo proved to be an elusive target. More than 5,000 soldiers were deployed to capture him in around 1885.

Geronimo was fighting for his land, and committed what U.S officials at the time might have called acts of terrorism, conducting raids on white settlers in Apache territory. U.S. officials said they could convict Geronimo and his fighters of murder, and exiled the outlaw Apache to Florida as a prisoner of war, never to return to his homeland.

But bin Laden was in a completely different league. The al Qaeda leader was a mass murderer, out to destroy Western civilization, not primarily to protect his lands.

 In 1998, bin Laden declared, "We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

Geronimo
(Credit: wikipedia.org)

However, unlike bin Laden, Geronimo lived to tell his tale, and in 1905 he appeared in President Theodore Roosevelt's inaugural parade.

During his latter years, Geronimo converted to Christianity.

"Believing that in a wise way it is good to go to church, and that associating with Christians would improve my character, I have adopted the Christian religion... I am not ashamed to be a Christian... I have advised all of my people who are not Christians, to study that religion, because it seems to me the best religion in enabling one to live right," he wrote in his autobiography."

[GramPolly3]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

I am relieved that OBL is no longer a threat to the world. There are probably many more to take his place.
I am so proud of our President and the Navy Seals--all of our military really. But it is unseemly to rejoice in another human beings death.

[amyrouse]

I'm with you, Walks.  It does bother me that the code name was Geronimo.  Way to ostracize an already marginalized portion of our society. 

[jcribb16]

Quote from amyrouse:
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." G.W. Bush 3-13-2002. Transcript of the press conference here: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=65091#axzz1LAP6mzbo

"We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority," Barack Obama. 10-07-2008



I really feel strongly about these two statements floating around everywhere.  Amy, this isn't directed at you in any way whatsoever.  The quote is flying around everywhere.  I just want people to know what was really said and what he meant.  After all, President Bush is the one who gave the lead on this (after 9/11/01, and President Obama followed through with it and when the opportunity came, as Bush said it would, Obama gave the word for it to be done, in which, we thank the Seals profusely for carrying it out. The press conference, indeed, reprinted what he said about the terrorism, but how he said it and what he meant is quite different than the quote going around.  Here's that part of the press conference, with his remarks bolded and what he meant bolded and made larger:


Scope of the War on Terrorism

Q. Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Usama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part, deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of——

The President. Well, deep in my heart, I know the man is on the run if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not? We haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is—really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just—he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network is—his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is—as I've mentioned in my speeches, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death, and he himself tries to hide—if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly [Kelly Wallace, Cable News Network], to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well supplied, that the strategy is clear, that the coalition is strong, that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahi-Kot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.[/size]

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahi-Kot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahi-Kot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough; we're strong; they're well equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

Q. But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

The President. Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And again, I don't know where he is. I—I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became—we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his Al Qaida killers anymore. And if we—excuse me for a minute—and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will, or our friends will. That's one of the things—part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary or training or a place to hide or a place to raise money.

And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this 6 months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink, and I'm not going to get tired, because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world, and for freedom.


Read more at the American Presidency Project: George W. Bush: The President's News Conference http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=65091#ixzz1LLdt0yYX

[healthfreedom]

Sometimes I wonder if Bin Laden was a real person, or another lie game that's being played on the american people.

[animikokala]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20059037-503543.html




"Geronimo E-KIA." Those words were heard in the Situation Room when Osama bin Laden was killed by bullets to the head and chest. Geronimo was the code name given by U.S. officials for bin Laden; E-KIA stands for "Enemy Killed In Action."

Apparently the code namers thought of bin Laden as a 21st century equivalent of the Chiricahua Apache leader, who waged battles against the Mexico and the United States, countries engaged in colonizing Indian lands.

Like bin Laden, Geronimo proved to be an elusive target. More than 5,000 soldiers were deployed to capture him in around 1885.

Geronimo was fighting for his land, and committed what U.S officials at the time might have called acts of terrorism, conducting raids on white settlers in Apache territory. U.S. officials said they could convict Geronimo and his fighters of murder, and exiled the outlaw Apache to Florida as a prisoner of war, never to return to his homeland.

But bin Laden was in a completely different league. The al Qaeda leader was a mass murderer, out to destroy Western civilization, not primarily to protect his lands.

 In 1998, bin Laden declared, "We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

Geronimo
(Credit: wikipedia.org)

However, unlike bin Laden, Geronimo lived to tell his tale, and in 1905 he appeared in President Theodore Roosevelt's inaugural parade.

During his latter years, Geronimo converted to Christianity.

"Believing that in a wise way it is good to go to church, and that associating with Christians would improve my character, I have adopted the Christian religion... I am not ashamed to be a Christian... I have advised all of my people who are not Christians, to study that religion, because it seems to me the best religion in enabling one to live right," he wrote in his autobiography."

There you go, Walks!  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_geronimo

Senate official: Wrong to link bin Laden, Geronimo

[jwallbank]

I love the way "WE" as a people use the killing of a Man as a Political boost is appaling. I am a Veteran and have been to 26 countries and served in two Wars and multiple conflicts. It is a good thing for our country for Obl to be gone from the face of the earth but, for 18/19/20 year old's, which the majority was if you look at the crowds in NY/DC, for them to have a reason to party is outrageous. I bet if you asked them who OBL was the day before the attack only 10 percent could tell you who he was and what he did. They were 8/9/10 when 9/11/01 happened. The military has been persuing this since 9/11/01 and deserve all the credit, not some politician in DC - whatever party they are from. I knew people that went into the Military after 9/11 that were well above the age of normal recruite's because they wanted to make a difference, and for any party or politician to take credit for this is a abomination, I don't see them picking up a gun and going to Iraq or Afganistan to fight or help catch these evil individuals.

[a_kirklin]

Amen!  Many praises to our armed forces!  And a big brownie point for the President.

I totally agree, he was a huge threat to our country.. and even though he's dead iam still a bit skeptical because they have tried to harm the US once before so they will be even more apt to retaliate. But I am glad it was done, at least some of us can be at piece now! At least until some other catastrophic event happens.

[matney87]

bin laden haha hes a dead *bleep* now