Planned Parenthood

[queenofnines]

If you(generally speaking) don't want the child, just give it up for adoption.

Oh, like that's the miracle solution.  You must not be aware that there are millions - literally millions - of kids who will NEVER get adopted.  This is because the VAST majority of people/couples would rather have their *own* biological children than take on anybody else's.  Adoption is the absolute LAST resort for most people.  Seriously...how many people have you ever known that have adopted??

And so these orphans get shortchanged a childhood, which could have detrimental effects on their development as an adult.  You are sentencing a lot of them to nothing but a hard life.

[animikokala]

As long as they are not using federal funding specifically for abortions (and that's already illegal anyways), there is no reason to deny federal funding for the other services they provide.  And in that same case, it also wouldn't matter then if eugenics is involved in any way for abortions, as that money would be privately donated.  (not that I agree with eugenics)  Private money can be used for things that federally funded money can't be (for example, it is not illegal for groups to push an anti-gay agenda with private donations, federal funding is more restrictive).  Besides, we don't have truly accurate statistics of abortions, as the reporting of abortion procedures is not required by law.  We don't know how many people have abortions at places that keep it quiet, or what race, ethnicity, etc they may be.

[ElleRich]

I think that Planned Parenthood has much to offer that just abortions.  A mother has a right to choose if she wants to abort a fetus or not.  I am sure that the mother is counseled if she chooses to go on that route.  It's politics as usual. I don't get involved with the drama...I have better things to do.

[tdsantiago1]

I dont belief in abortion but it also depend on the situation(rape), then one must think about it

[shernajwine]

I think that Planned Parenthood has much to offer that just abortions.  A mother has a right to choose if she wants to abort a fetus or not.  I am sure that the mother is counseled if she chooses to go on that route.  It's politics as usual. I don't get involved with the drama...I have better things to do.

That phrase is funny considering upwards of 80% of women who choose abortion do so under duress, coerced by fear under heavy social pressure from friends, family, boyfriends, and work. In other words, most women chose abortion because they feel they have no other choice.

The mother is not counseled on all possible side effects (according to the abortion patients themselves) . Side effects that occur so commonly that some practitioners are calling it Post Abortion Syndrome, with symptoms including:

    * Social and relational breakdown
    * Sexual dysfunction
    * Loss of self-esteem
    * Nightmares
    * Anxiety attacks
    * Guilt and remorse
    * Inability to enjoy previously enjoyable activities
    * Drug abuse
    * Alcohol abuse
    * Depression
    * Suicide

65% of post abortive women contract at least some of the symptoms of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), and 14% have all the symptoms
55% of women will express deep guilt and 33% will show some form of regret. In a 1989 Survey reported in the LA Times, 56% of women expressed guilt and regret.
33% of women will develop an obsessive longing to become pregnant again,
44% will contract some kind of anxiety disorder, 25% of whom will be diagnosed with prescription drugs by doctors.
approximately 40% of women will begin to experience sexual problems.
post abortive women are twice as likely to abuse alcohol as women who carry to term
80% of women will experience at least a phase of self-loathing, and of those, 60% will begin some form of drug abuse and an increase in alcohol abuse. 60% of those women will contemplate suicide, half of whom will actually attempt it . Teen age girls are at a particularly high risk in this case — being 6x more likely to take their lives within a year of the abortion

The list actually goes on.
http://bloodmoneyfilm.com/blog/post-abortion-after-effects

Yes Planned Parenthood does other things besides abortion but if you can so easily brush aside the evidence of their still existing racism and underlying goal with the abortions they DO perform. You are part of the problem with the indifference to injustice in this world

And in that same case, it also wouldn't matter then if eugenics is involved in any way for abortions, as that money would be privately donated.

WHAT? It doesn't matter if eugenics is involved?? Do you realize what you are saying? Let me reword this with the meaning of eugenics and see if this sounds cruel, heartless, and Hitler-ish to you.....

And in that same case, it also wouldn't matter if the idea that humans are only the sum of their DNA and that people of inferior genetics should be eliminated, is involved in any way for abortions, as that money would be privately donated.

HUH?! So as long as private citizens donate their money to commit politically correct genocide....it's all good??

I understand now. Hail Hitler.

[jordandog]

I am not going to get into an argument with anyone about this. I will say that you cannot base an 'argument' on statements taken from the 1920's (Sangers politics, thoughts on eugenics), use old sources from the 1970's and 1980's (BloodMoney site and many others referenced), or use sources that are obviously Christian/pro-life (come hell or high water) and present an accurate portrayal of society today and Planned Parenthood's mission.

In addition to the absolute BS being put out there by Pence, the Indiana lawmaker behind the Title X fight, there are others making fallacious and inciteful statements. Example?
Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., repeated a Republican argument today that abortions are "well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does." He later clarified that the statistic, which is inaccurate, was "not intended to be a factual statement." Did you catch this part: He later clarified that the statistic, which is inaccurate, was "not intended to be a factual statement." Then WHY say it?! To get people riled up, pure and simple. That was found on ABC.com, but you can see it in plenty of places that talk about this issue and the way it is falsely being portrayed.

Don't low income families, and especially single mothers who do not need nor want more children, have a right to preventive services for things like breast cancer, birth control, PAP smears? Can one of you tell me just where the 3 million women who use the 800 existing Planned Parenthood clinics are going to go? Ahh, don't say their local Health Departments. They too have lost much of their funding and are also slated to lose even more. We have NO surplus money in this country. Now we should have NO common sense either?! To those who said "put the kids/babies up for adoption"? I say better yet, let's just go back to the days of dark alleys, coat hangers, poisonous concoctions, and whatever other means are out there to stop the birth of the babies to begin with. Makes sense to me.

[shernajwine]

I am not going to get into an argument with anyone about this. I will say that you cannot base an 'argument' on statements taken from the 1920's (Sangers politics, thoughts on eugenics), use old sources from the 1970's and 1980's (BloodMoney site and many others referenced), or use sources that are obviously Christian/pro-life (come hell or high water) and present an accurate portrayal of society today and Planned Parenthood's mission.

Here is a site of personal stories of women who have had an abortion and testify to the trauma they underwent as a result. All recent.
http://www.abort73.com/testimony//

Also I showed much more recent proofs of Planned Parenthood's still existing racism. And the idea that the information on a pro-life site can't be used as a credible source of information is an idea of closed minded willful ignorance. The voice of Post Abortion Syndrome comes from the people experiencing abortion for themselves. No politics or religion involved.

But you can't base a rebuttal to an argument by dismissing every source of information based on your own credibility criteria either.

[animikokala]

And in that same case, it also wouldn't matter then if eugenics is involved in any way for abortions, as that money would be privately donated.

WHAT? It doesn't matter if eugenics is involved?? Do you realize what you are saying? Let me reword this with the meaning of eugenics and see if this sounds cruel, heartless, and Hitler-ish to you.....

And in that same case, it also wouldn't matter if the idea that humans are only the sum of their DNA and that people of inferior genetics should be eliminated, is involved in any way for abortions, as that money would be privately donated.

HUH?! So as long as private citizens donate their money to commit politically correct genocide....it's all good??

I understand now. Hail Hitler.

How cute of you to pick only one quote from my entire statement, and a partial quote at that, to make a personal attack.

I suppose you know quite a bit about how Planned Parenthood works; you must volunteer there and see just how evil they are in person, right?  I have volunteered there before, and they are caring, considerate, and informative towards the women who come in, no matter what the reason.  

And as for the post abortion syndrome statistics:  Have you seen the condition some of these women are in when they come into the Planned Parenthood office?  They are not calm, collected women; they are in tears, often hysterical about just the idea of being pregnant!  If the idea of being pregnant causes such emotional disturbance, what do you think choosing to have an abortion might do, especially if they are under "social pressure" as you said?  Shouldn't you be blaming those friends, families, spouses, workplaces, and the social stigma about single mothers instead of blaming the one place that actually wants to know what the woman's choice is in that situation?  Planned Parenthood cannot read the woman's thoughts, it is still the woman's choice between "yes" or "no", no matter if the woman likes either choice or not.

Note:  I had a lot more written, but power spiked and I lost everything I had typed; by the time I logged back in, Jordandog had posted much of what I was writing.  So thanks, Jordandog for making my rewrite much shorter.  And now I see Sherna's posted again, so I'm adding on 

Here is a site of personal stories of women who have had an abortion and testify to the trauma they underwent as a result. All recent.
http://www.abort73.com/testimony//

Also I showed much more recent proofs of Planned Parenthood's still existing racism. And the idea that the information on a pro-life site can't be used as a credible source of information is an idea of closed minded willful ignorance. The voice of Post Abortion Syndrome comes from the people experiencing abortion for themselves. No politics or religion involved.

Did you read many of these posts?  Did you read just how many of them chose the abortion because of social pressure?  In most of the posts, pressure from a parent or boyfriend/spouse pushed the woman into having the abortion.  Why are you still blaming Planned Parenthood or any of the doctor's offices that were used in the abortions?  Why aren't you posting about the injustices these women faced?  The pain their loved ones put them through?

[shernajwine]

I have volunteered there before, and they are caring, considerate, and informative towards the women who come in, no matter what the reason.

Of course they are! I never said they weren't. But they are not informative enough.

Have you seen the condition some of these women are in when they come into the Planned Parenthood office?  They are not calm, collected women; they are in tears, often hysterical about just the idea of being pregnant!

And thus proving my whole statement that women choosing abortion actually feel as though they have NO CHOICE.

Did you read many of these posts?  Did you read just how many of them chose the abortion because of social pressure?  In most of the posts, pressure from a parent or boyfriend/spouse pushed the woman into having the abortion.  Why are you still blaming Planned Parenthood or any of the doctor's offices that were used in the abortions?  Why aren't you posting about the injustices these women faced?  The pain their loved ones put them through?

As a matter of fact I did. And everything you just said is exactly what I said. I quote myself:

That phrase is funny considering upwards of 80% of women who choose abortion do so under duress, coerced by fear under heavy social pressure from friends, family, boyfriends, and work. In other words, most women chose abortion because they feel they have no other choice.

Thanks for helping me prove my point  

I'm not blaming Planned Parenthood for performing abortion. I am blaming Planned Parenthood for it's racist and genocidal agenda. And again I will state that not every person working for or supporting Planned Parenthood agrees with their past or the idea of eugenics.

How cute of you to pick only one quote from my entire statement, and a partial quote at that, to make a personal attack.

I didn't misquote you. I copied and pasted your words exactly, in it's entire sentence. I only changed the word eugenics to it's definition to fully show the meaning of such a statement. And I quoted the part of your post that I wished to address. Which is not a clever way to attack you. It is how a person addresses a specific statement  

However you are very cleverly trying to dismiss the fact that you said eugenics is fine as long as it is privately funded. That is disgusting to me.  

[animikokala]

However you are very cleverly trying to dismiss the fact that you said eugenics is fine as long as it is privately funded. That is disgusting to me.  

Eugenics is outdated and a scientific fallacy.  Believing in eugenics is "fine", meaning they are not breaking any laws, and no one is being forced into it.  They are not tying down these women and giving them abortions without their consent, are they?  It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal and as long as they aren't acting out their beliefs on others against their will.  Such negative beliefs on their own are rather stupid, but not illegal.  Privately funded religious organizations can discriminate all they want, and I'm fine with that, even though I don't agree with it.  

If anyone at Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics, so what?  I don't agree with it, you don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean that they aren't free to believe in it.  As long as I don't see any proof that they are actively practicing it, it's "fine".

Edit:  Added on a missing statement.  Thank you Shernajwine.  
 

[shernajwine]

Believing in eugenics is "fine", meaning they are not breaking any laws, and no one is being forced into it.

No one is being forced. Forced sterilization was made illegal and thus the peddling of abortion to minorities under the guise of civil rights was born.

It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal.

I disagree with that absolutely 100%.

Is bullying someone because of their color, or race, or sexuality fine? Is protesting the funeral of military servicemen with signs saying Semper Fi Fags fine? Discrimination is NEVER fine whether it is legal or not. And the difference between those things and the purpose of Planned Parenthoods abortions is that the name of the game was changed and the discrimination was MADE legal! 

Planned Parent-hood is about birth control; it was born out of a eugenic movement that recommended sterilization and segregation as its primary birth control tools. And immediately after sterilization and segregation legally failed, abortion appeared on the scene, and minorities were targeted for abortion just as heavily as they were targeted before for sterilization and segregation. The sad truth: abortion became a far more effective and lucrative eugenic tactic than anything that came before it.
http://bloodmoneyfilm.com/blog/planned-parent-hood-today

If anyone at Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics, so what?

Again, WHAT?! Let me get this straight.....So what if the people working at the organization counseling you and performing your abortion, agree with it's racist founder that you and your baby should be wiped off the face of the planet? So what if the person giving you advice thinks your genetic trash? So what if the person killing your baby is HAPPY that the world is rid of one less useless human being? REALLY? So What???

As long as I don't see any proof that they are actively practicing it, it's "fine".

I gave evidence that they are still racist and the act of aborting children IS them actively practicing their eugenics!
 
This indifference to racism and hate mongering is WHY racism and hate mongering still exists. Maybe you should read walks thread about the abuse being suffered by the Indigenous people. Why don't you go on HIS thread and tell him it's FINE as long as it's LEGAL. 

 

[marieelissa]

I think people are crazy that they even want to be alive and have babies in the first place.

I mean all the bad things that will happen to your body and all the health problems you will have. All the medical procedures you will have to go through and the pain and suffering.

In my opinion people are nuts for liking life period. It's that awful.

But those that were born into it just do it because they have to and just hate it the whole time.

Yep, I have it in my head that everyone is nuts because they do this crap to themselves.

I just feel bad for the people that know life sucks and never have kids because they would never do what has been done to them to someone else.

Life is hard for some people...and they can't wait to die.

ABORTION all the way over here.

[animikokala]

Believing in eugenics is "fine", meaning they are not breaking any laws, and no one is being forced into it.

No one is being forced. Forced sterilization was made illegal and thus the peddling of abortion to minorities under the guise of civil rights was born.

It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal.

I disagree with that absolutely 100%.

Is bullying someone because of their color, or race, or sexuality fine? Is protesting the funeral of military servicemen with signs saying Semper Fi Fags fine? Discrimination is NEVER fine whether it is legal or not. And the difference between those things and the purpose of Planned Parenthoods abortions is that the name of the game was changed and the discrimination was MADE legal! 

Planned Parent-hood is about birth control; it was born out of a eugenic movement that recommended sterilization and segregation as its primary birth control tools. And immediately after sterilization and segregation legally failed, abortion appeared on the scene, and minorities were targeted for abortion just as heavily as they were targeted before for sterilization and segregation. The sad truth: abortion became a far more effective and lucrative eugenic tactic than anything that came before it.
http://bloodmoneyfilm.com/blog/planned-parent-hood-today

If anyone at Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics, so what?

Again, WHAT?! Let me get this straight.....So what if the people working at the organization counseling you and performing your abortion, agree with it's racist founder that you and your baby should be wiped off the face of the planet? So what if the person giving you advice thinks your genetic trash? So what if the person killing your baby is HAPPY that the world is rid of one less useless human being? REALLY? So What???

As long as I don't see any proof that they are actively practicing it, it's "fine".

I gave evidence that they are still racist and the act of aborting children IS them actively practicing their eugenics!
 
This indifference to racism and hate mongering is WHY racism and hate mongering still exists. Maybe you should read walks thread about the abuse being suffered by the Indigenous people. Why don't you go on HIS thread and tell him it's FINE as long as it's LEGAL. 

 

Sorry, part of that one is my fault.  Had a study all-nighter and I don't think I'm writing everything I want to write.  I need to add to "It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal."  as long as they aren't acting out their beliefs on others against their will.  But if we were to use your sources as complete, unbiased truth, then their practice of eugenics is still "fine", because they are not forcing anyone to have an abortion.  Forcing abortion is wrong; giving the women a chance to make a choice about whether she wants a child is not wrong, even if she regrets it later.  She will have had the right to choose.

However, I do agree with Jordandog about the credibility of your sources.  Using only biased material does not prove a point; it just makes you look biased.  Show me unbiased sources supporting your claims, or sources from the other side that will give some credibility towards your sources. 

As for Margaret Sanger, she actually advocated birth control far more than abortion.  See here:  http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/secure/documents/speech_no_healthy_race_without_bc.html (March 1921);
also, "To each group we explained what contraception was; that abortion was the wrong way—no matter how early it was performed it was taking life; that contraception was the better way, the safer way—it took a little time, a little trouble, but was well worth while in the long run, because life had not yet begun." (Margaret Sanger, An Autobiography  1938);
and "No one can doubt that there are times when an abortion is justifiable but they will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception. This is the only cure for abortions."  (http://archive.lib.msu.edu/DMC/AmRad/familylimitations.pdf);
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/secure/documents/speech_woman's_error_and_debt.html

I believe the Planned Parenthood she created provides a wonderful and needed source of health care services to those that are in need today.  Even if that means some women choose abortions.  It's still their choice, no matter what or who is influencing them.

I'm very tired.  I think I will sleep till tomorrow morning.  Good night all.

[shernajwine]

Using only biased material does not prove a point; it just makes you look biased.  Show me unbiased sources supporting your claims, or sources from the other side that will give some credibility towards your sources. 

You calling them biased doesn't make them so. 
Everything I listed about Margaret Sanger is FACT. It came from her mouth.
Every statistic listed about Post Abortion Syndrome were statistics formed from the mouths of the very people having abortions.
I quoted people who support eugenics.
A representative from Planned Parenthood taking a donation over the phone was recorded having said she was excited to take a donation targeted for black people.

Just because the sites I referenced may be pro life doesn't change the FACT that the people quoted, said those things.

So you can say my sources are not credible but saying so doesn't make it the case. How about if you disagree with me YOU go find what YOU consider to be unbiased sources. Amy posted a link and asked what we though of it. I have given my thoughts and ample references and resources to back up what I am saying and what I believe to be the truth.

But if we were to use your sources as complete, unbiased truth, then their practice of eugenics is still "fine", because they are not forcing anyone to have an abortion

Nope they are not forcing anyone, they are just lying to them and telling them it's about their right to choose instead of telling them it's about them being unfit to breed. And subsequently laughing all the way to the bank for having successfully rid the world of another inferior human being. And that's not fine no matter how many times you try to re word what you have said to make it sound fine.

Dr. Clarence Gamble (of Proctor and Gamble fame) who had served as director of the Birth Control League and was appointed as the regional director of the South, sent Sanger a memo entitled “Suggestion for Negro Project,” where he warned that black leaders would likely see her strategy as a plot to exterminate the blacks. His solution? Enlist carefully selected black leaders to spread the word instead. They’d take the pill if it were from their own people and no one would suspect a thing!

In Sanger’s reply letter on Dec. 10. 1939, she agreed with his strategy. “We do not want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten that idea out if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Facts:

   1. The birth control campaigns like the Negro Project that gave birth to Planned Parent-hood heavily targeted minorities
   2. Planned Parent-hood has placed the vast majority of their clinics in minority neighborhoods

The result? According to the Guttmacher Institute, black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion. Since Roe v Wade, 10% of the white race has been wiped out, but 28% of the black race has been wiped out. The black community makes up only 12% of the American population, but they have 36% of all the abortions–so black babies are dying more than 3x as fast! By 2008, close to 14,000,000 black babies have been killed by abortion.

I quoted this from the bloodmoney site, however the Guttmacher Institute through which these statistics came from is NOT a pro life or religious site. Look for yourself.
http://www.guttmacher.org/

Go ahead and support abortion. Go ahead and support Planned Parenthood. In my opinion, supporting abortion is dismissing the countless testimonies of post abortion women crying out from experience and anguish that abortion is not the answer. In my opinion, supporting Planned Parenthood is supporting modern eugenics under the disguise of civil rights, and leading women to the clinics like cattle to the slaughterhouse.

You can disagree but I'm not going to let you dictate to me to present sources you find acceptable to convince you otherwise.

[queenofnines]

black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion

So?  Who cares what color the woman is.  If she's an unfit parent in any way, let her do the world (and the unborn child) a favor.  You "pro-lifers" really turn a blind eye to the horrible, horrible conditions a lot of these aborted fetuses would have ended up in.