God is a Fake

[richcrutch]

It's a free gift because you have to do anything to earn it. God gave you a free will. He doesn't want a bunch of robots in Heaven so He gave you a free will so you could choose to accept or reject Him. The only bad consequence is when you reject Jesus Christ and you then choose to spend eternity in Hell. So the only bad consequence is the decision you make when you reject Christ and His free gift. It's so amazing its free and you don't have to earn your way to Heaven. He's taken all the work out of He. He is a great and awesome God.

[falcon9]

God gave you a free will.

That would be an unsubstantiated belief with which I do not concur.

He doesn't want a bunch of robots in Heaven so He gave you a free will so you could choose to accept or reject Him.

That would be a restatement of an unsubstantiated belief with which I still don't concur.

The only bad consequence is when you reject Jesus Christ and you then choose to spend eternity in Hell. So the only bad consequence is the decision you make when you reject Christ and His free gift. 

Since I don't believe the empty claim, (empty, because it lacks any substantive basis whatsoever), the 'threat' of spending "eternity in hell" is an empty one.  That being the case, there are no verifiable consequences of either accepting or rejecting such foundationless beliefs.

[falcon9]

About one second after you die you will realize the folly of your statement that God is a fake.

The original poster of the thread title hasn't participated much since however, your claim is without basis, ('faith' being an unsubstantiated basis). This is because there is no way to verify your claim, (which makes it a dubious one).

Sadly, once you cross the line of death, you can't go back and change your mine. God gives you many opportunities to accept His free gift of eternal life with Him. But you gotta do it while your still alive.

What about those people who've been "clinically-dead" and 'returned'/resuscitated?  Be that as it may, such beliefs again constitute empty claims because they rely upon empty 'faith'.


 

[Falconer02]

It's a free gift because you have to do anything to earn it.

Did you miss a word? I don't want to assume anything, so please rewrite if you wish.

He doesn't want a bunch of robots in Heaven so He gave you a free will so you could choose to accept or reject Him.

Rejecting him leads to eternal torture. Accepting him leads to a blissful eternity. Let's say you own a business and a mob boss walks in one day. He says "I own this street. You should follow and do what I say and accept me as your boss and I'll take good care of you. If you don't, I will have my goons beat you up and kill you." Obviously you have a choice, but are you exercising a free choice? You'd be coerced into saying "You're my boss" because you fear for your life-- just as you fear for your 'eternal soul' with your god.

The fact that fear plays a major element in both of these instances eliminates all traces of freedom. So how are either of these instances free or...more importantly...fair? Why can't one just run an honest business without fear of a mob boss?

[falcon9]

It's a free gift because you have to do anything to earn it.

Did you miss a word? I don't want to assume anything, so please rewrite if you wish.

It's a good guess that the word "don't" was intended between "you" and "have".  Nonetheless, your following analogy emphasizes that it is neither a "gift" nor, "free".

He doesn't want a bunch of robots in Heaven so He gave you a free will so you could choose to accept or reject Him.

Rejecting him leads to eternal torture. Accepting him leads to a blissful eternity. Let's say you own a business and a mob boss walks in one day. He says "I own this street. You should follow and do what I say and accept me as your boss and I'll take good care of you. If you don't, I will have my goons beat you up and kill you." Obviously you have a choice, but are you exercising a free choice? You'd be coerced into saying "You're my boss" because you fear for your life-- just as you fear for your 'eternal soul' with your god.

The fact that fear plays a major element in both of these instances eliminates all traces of freedom. So how are either of these instances free or...more importantly...fair? Why can't one just run an honest business without fear of a mob boss?

I've run across the depiction of this particular religious belief as the 'protection racket' analogy you've outlined.  Like all analogies, this one fails because "god" presumably has no verified enforcement thugs and there's no substantive evidence that anyone ever got "beat up/sent to hell" for rejecting a specious belief.

[Falconer02]

I've run across the depiction of this particular religious belief as the 'protection racket' analogy you've outlined.  Like all analogies, this one fails because "god" presumably has no verified enforcement thugs and there's no substantive evidence that anyone ever got "beat up/sent to hell" for rejecting a specious belief.

Well obviously it's realistically unverifiable. I'm just trying to show a problem within the claimants own grounds. Within the example though, the thugs represent Satan as he is god's own fallen angel. Admittedly not the best fit, it should still show one of the major problems within the belief of free will in xtianity.

[falcon9]

I'm just trying to show a problem within the claimants own grounds. Within the example though, the thugs represent Satan as he is god's own fallen angel. Admittedly not the best fit, it should still show one of the major problems within the belief of free will in xtianity.

I'm not sure that "satan" fits as "god's thug" because 'he' supposedly bailed and isn't doing "god's" dirty work, (although more than one xtian has expressed the belief that it's part of "god's plan for satan to have 'fallen'").  The point, though, is as you say; it isn't exactly a freely-willed choice when there's a supernatural threat hanging over the chooser's head.  A true choice would omit the threat.

[SmartyTru]

"I was an atheist until I realized I was god" 

That's GREAT I have always wanted to meet you just not on your terms (I'm not ready for that long trip to heaven yet)do you think we could get together at my house for a few drinks?

[queenofnines]

About one second after you die you will realize the folly of your statement that God is a fake. Sadly, once you cross the line of death, you can't go back and change your mine. God gives you many opportunities to accept His free gift of eternal life with Him. But you gotta do it while your still alive. Another fact HELL is for eternity, with no escape clause included. I pray that you will come to know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and believe in Him before its to late.  

You've been infected by the virus well.  I feel bad for you.

[queenofnines]

The only bad consequence is when you reject Jesus Christ and you then choose to spend eternity in Hell.

Oh, is that all?

So the only bad consequence is the decision you make when you reject Christ and His free gift.

But I thought I had "free will", goddammit!

Stop dolling up your empty ultimatum with the term "free will".  Say it like it is, for your god's sake: pledge allegiance to the Christian god and the Christian god only, or be tortured forever. And feel like a stupid scumbag afterwards if you have any ounce of humanity or common sense in you.

[ZMREDMOND]

Hey there,
AS A CHRISTIAN  MYSELF ,YOU HAVE TO WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT. IF GOD WAS FAKE HOW DO YOU THINK THE WORLD AND YOU WAS CREATED?? YOU WILL SEE HOW FAKE HE IS COME JUDEGMENT DAY. BUT I GUESS EVERYBODY HAS THERE ON OPINION ABOUT RELIGION BUT SOMETHINGS SHOULD JUST BE LEFT ALONE..

As a Christian, I'm a little confused at the the 'realization that God is fake'. Can you elaborate on your opinion? It's truly interesting!

A lot of the times, people go through troubling experiences and completely denote the existence of God based off of hardship (e.g. lost of loved one, death/incidents, wish not coming true, etc). While there are many answers to just about every problem we human beings are capable of having, what we feel and go through is just as important!

Pertaining to your question, though, that's another topic. I guess anyone can pick up a rock and call it god, but are we talking about looking for truth, or just what makes us feel better? That can be two different topics (and come on, usually it is!)

I think truth doesn't come easy to our ears, or definitely not to mine, because I'm usually 'set' in my ways. There are things I like to do and don't like to be told it's 'wrong' and feelings I like to feel that I don't care to change, etc. But then again, I think everyone may be like that at some point in their lives. Love the logic we alone build and call it truth - is it possible there's someone who knows more than us? Knows the best way to live? Knows truth? Yeah, looking for truth is a lot harder (again, I think it's because we make it hard!) then looking for something that makes us feel better. That's the easy part. Just look around in this world - media, idolizing celebs, etc. So many ways to just make us feel better, or as you said, 'pick your own god'.

I think if someone's going to pick something to idolize, hopefully that person understands..they just made it up! It's like believing a story that was clearly false. I believe Lord of the Rings was a true story! But if it makes me feel better, does it make it true?

Sorry to rant, I just think this branches off into another interesting topic - truth vs. self-gratification.

[falcon9]

Hey there

Hey  Z ... is there a reason that you reposted blast from the past?

[Thesaboteur]

God is not a being but a race. Ancient Astronauts are the term for this idea. They came down to earth for some reason and left us here to evolve. Our DNA is not different from Primates but we are. It comes down to what we actually know about ourselves and what we can expand on that.

[RakiaTaylor]

In my opinion, all roads lead to the same God or eternal damnation.....


Before giving a strong opinion about God, you should research the different religions.  Personally speaking, I am more spiritual than religious.

[falcon9]

In my opinion, all roads lead to the same God or eternal damnation.....

Such an opinion completely ignores the tenets of other religions which neither "lead to the same god", nor to "eternal damnation."  The sheer gall inherent in such a concept of lumping "all roads" together takes some hubris.

Before giving a strong opinion about God, you should research the different religions.  Personally speaking, I am more spiritual than religious.

Since I have indeed researched many different religions, (not only the 'mainstream' ones and not only online but, 9 different 'pagan' ones in great depth - over a period of 40 years), perhaps one could say such an opinion is somewhat of an 'educated opinion'.