Teachers in FL. either make the grade or lose their jobs.

[tantricia44]

governor of fl. now wants to reform the teacher salary/ten year contract.

Goal:
1. cancel the ten year contract for teachers.
2. contract reduced to 1 yr. then teacher gets evaluated to keep job.
3. contract salary is based on how many students passed each year.
4. yearly evaluation test for teachers.

I think this a great Idea because I've know some teachers in the college level just read the book in class instead of teaching.  Which to me is not teaching. Some teachers recycle their tests  to laziness to create renewed tests. Some teachers don't know the material they suppose to teach. There was a teacher hired in community college who's  suppose to be strong in the math/science background. She was picked b/c she was african American & the college need a current quota in racial hiring requirements. All her students would go to my husband the head of the science/biology department to get help. In nearly 100% of the notes the students took from this teacher, everything was backwards. I don't know if she's still there but news spread on which teachers are good or bad.

*One thing I disagree with this merit deal. If the case is to get a large percentage to pass the class subject each year. Teachers that don't pass students easily are usually,  in the hard core science & math course. If it is based on how many students pass each yr. to make the merit quota to keep your teaching job....How many good teachers do you think will pass a failing student just to make the merit quota. Temptation is high when your job is on the line.

FC Members what do you think about this issue? I you know more on this topic to add on; please do. Your input & Ideas are greatly accepted. 

[jbcratchet]

What a terrific policy.  I wish similiar policies would be implemented in other school districts.

[mlhnceh]

I think teachers would either pass students to keep their jobs or dumb down the material.  There are better ways to hold teachers accountable. 

[lynnc35]

I got a letter from a Senator yesterday saying they have to make tens of thousands in budget cuts by at least September, and they are not even barely started, the sad thing is the things they are cutting, Repulicans, mind you, are all our programs over here in the United States, the feeding hungry, the education, community centers, healthcare, you name it, here it is being cut, the things and this is no joke, absolute truth, the things they are not cutting, defense, foreign defense and foreign aid, economic aid to other countries, they are cutting our programs, while supporting other countries and their salaries, they think no one is watching them.

[animikokala]

These methods won't help in the slightest.  The problems in our schools stem more from the parents and the students than it does from the teachers.  All this will do is make teachers want to fudge numbers to get a "quota".  If they don't, then you'll probably see a constant turnover of teachers in schools.  Teachers can't make students learn the material, they have to want to do it, or have significant enough pressure from family to feel a need to learn.

[lynn1958]

I agree with this

[dreamyxo]

These methods won't help in the slightest.  The problems in our schools stem more from the parents and the students than it does from the teachers.  All this will do is make teachers want to fudge numbers to get a "quota".  If they don't, then you'll probably see a constant turnover of teachers in schools. Teachers can't make students learn the material, they have to want to do it, or have significant enough pressure from family to feel a need to learn.

 

Yes where is the grade for parents and students.  You can't heap all the problems on teachers.  Teachers who want to teach can't because they have too many behavior problems that start in the home first.  Parents would rather buy their kids the latest video games, and Ipods than to buy them books or make them study.  They send them to school expecting teachers to work miracles but they can't. 

[mtmailey]

these teens today are more into hip hop and rap which is not good for them-rap teaches silly meaningless stuff like drug use,violence getting drunk and so on-these teens can remember a rapper's lyrics but can not remember things that is important.Now not all teens are like this

[springsgardner]

I have mixed feelings about this one. No two children are exactly a like nor will they produce the same results to make it an easy comparison as to how the teachers are doing. Yet, I feel that there should be some sort of standard, but not one that it so stringent as to make the teachers feel like they are walking on eggs or hot plates. I also think that a lot of the other posters have a valid point- if there's no support or focus for/on education at home, the child is not going to do as well. Our society doesn't expect kids or their parents to respect teachers or school administrators enough to do their job efficiently or effectively, leading to bad behavior by both parents and students, so I think the classrooms won't get better until the kids and parents learn to let the teachers/administrators do their job.

[Annella]

I have mixed feelings about this one. No two children are exactly a like nor will they produce the same results to make it an easy comparison as to how the teachers are doing. Yet, I feel that there should be some sort of standard, but not one that it so stringent as to make the teachers feel like they are walking on eggs or hot plates. I also think that a lot of the other posters have a valid point- if there's no support or focus for/on education at home, the child is not going to do as well. Our society doesn't expect kids or their parents to respect teachers or school administrators enough to do their job efficiently or effectively, leading to bad behavior by both parents and students, so I think the classrooms won't get better until the kids and parents learn to let the teachers/administrators do their job.

I couldn't have said it better. Excellent post about the problem.

[Abrupt]

These methods won't help in the slightest.  The problems in our schools stem more from the parents and the students than it does from the teachers.  All this will do is make teachers want to fudge numbers to get a "quota".  If they don't, then you'll probably see a constant turnover of teachers in schools. Teachers can't make students learn the material, they have to want to do it, or have significant enough pressure from family to feel a need to learn.

 

Yes where is the grade for parents and students.  You can't heap all the problems on teachers.  Teachers who want to teach can't because they have too many behavior problems that start in the home first.  Parents would rather buy their kids the latest video games, and Ipods than to buy them books or make them study.  They send them to school expecting teachers to work miracles but they can't. 

Then why do we continue to throw so much money at the problem?  If, ultimately, there is little blame to the teachers then it would seem the solution is to do away with public education entirely and have it all done privately.  At least that way the money will be voluntarily spent and accountability will correctly fall where it should.

I know what I just said likely sounds a bit silly but whenever I encounter something in my life that is expensive and I weigh the decision of "how effective is it" and I come up with answers like "not very" or "wouldn't matter either way" then I know it is time to remove that expense entirely.

[d1cheetah]

I believe teachers in college and tech schools should be paid based on how well they do.  After all, the student is there for school or a degree.  You would expect the student to put forth effort or be tossed out on their can. 
     It's different in public schools grades 1-12.  Sometimes the teacher is thrown in bad situations, classes with kids that refuse to participate and also refuse to allow the teacher to teach the other students. Schools no longer discipline or suspend students most of the time because of legal threats.  My thoughts, remedial schools for kids that don't care and are not supported by the home. School is not a babysitter or remedial boot camp.  Get the problem kids that won't cooperate out of the way so the kids who do want to complete school have the opportunity.  Then if the teachers are skating and no longer care about their education, boot those teachers out.

[kapeh12]

In some ways this proposal sounds very similar to most private sector jobs with some tweaking needed.  I completely agree with goal #1 - with how fast information and technology is changing, being locked into any industry for 10 years is not reasonable without some expectation of keeping up/adapting to the changes to ensure one is current.

I would look at revising/combining items #2 and 4 - have an annual review and goal setting session.  Most private sector jobs have this as a standard.  This process allows for a performance review of the individual, feedback on strengths/opportunities, and a forum to allow identifying the needed continued education and growth.  This would be an opportunity for the schools to note areas of need to see if there are teachers interested in learning/expanding into different areas.  This would help keep teachers from stagnating, and would help the schools by leveraging expertise from within.  Then for those who are only interested in doing the bare minimum, they would have to know that they would be the ones most at risk to losing their job if they don't put forth some effort to keep current.

Item #3 has been tried and failed for several of the reasons noted.  There is way too much diversity to set some arbitrary bell curve and expect the teachers (generally speaking) to maintain integrity in grading if they know some quota will determine whether or not they keep their job.  If, on the other hand, this metric was used more as a global scale - like with companies releasing annual profit increase/decrease percentages - and make that one small factor that impacts everyone - there may be some merit to that.  Something along the lines of - at the school level - determine the mean graduating percentage (starting point), then at the end of the year the percentage above or below for that school impacts everyone (not just a single individual) - makes it more of a collective effort.  Even have a second "global" at the district level - the district average, and the percentage increase/decrease of passing students also be some factor in the equation.  Having both may be an advantage as perhaps your school may have had a slightly lower percentage for the year, but the district increases.


I believe people who noted most of the issues are at the student/family level are hitting things on the nose.  I've seen over time people, in general, believing they are owed things vs working to obtain them.  In schools, I cringe at the books I've seen being used as they are even more light weight than what I had (and looking at some of those 1800's books ours were a joke).  Seems societies attitude has ceased the "people rise to the level of their expectations" and has become more "people sink to the level of least resistance."  Even at work - I've had managers tell me not to set expectations "too high" for people I lead, but I hear nothing but gratitude from everyone who works with me saying it was the first time they actually learned something they can take forward.  The trick is to push people, but provide the tools they need to success, and if they reached too high, have a plan to get them out gracefully.  I always let people challenge themselves, but made sure I had backup plans in place so if they didn't finish their objective, it would not put the project at risk.  In those cases, I never tell people they "failed" as they usually got the project finished to a certain point before they got stuck, and grew/learned tons along they way.  They just didn't have the information needed to finish it.  Once I have the backup plan executed and the project completed - I have them review the final solution so they know for a future task.  Why our culture has lost this type of drive is beyond me.  Education is the same thing - we need to start pushing expectations again, not making things "easier".