To the Christian who thinks only those who accept Christ will go to heaven....

[Falconer02]

If that's what you believe,then why do so many Atheists get so worked up about it?I don't see their kind of reaction over War & Peace.

Because a primitive mythological book that has people believing in things like a talking snake shouldn't be promoted or have society by the *bleep*. We should not strive to be a theocracy. That's the basic reason.

[falcon9]

Animal sacrifices were a type of prophesy.A shadow of Christ's Sacrifice to come.They did nothing to actually forgive sins,but was done as an act of obedience.

"Divination (from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god", related to divinus, divine) is the attempt to gain insight into a question or situation by way of an occultic standardized process or ritual such as animal sacrifice.  It was an integral part of witchcraft and has been used in various forms for thousands of years before the advent of christianity."

[teflonfanatic]

@JediJohnnie: Yes it was a foreshadowing but the High priest still paid or atoned for their sins

7 Then Moses said to Aaron: “Go near to the altar and render up your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement in your own behalf and in behalf of your house; and render up the offering of the people and make atonement in their behalf, just as Jehovah has commanded.”(Leviticus 9:7)

If you look up atonement in merriam-websters dictionary it's applied to Jesus, now of course Aaron(first high priest of Israelite nation) was not Jesus but he still atoned for the whole nation.

You say:  "Jesus is completely God in human form.He voluntarily veiled His Deity,but did not divest Himself of it."

I say how can you keep something you just emptied?

5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.(Phillipians 2:5-7)

P.S. I am not saying Jesus doesn't have the same nature as God as my religion unforunately and erroneously teaches, i'm saying that when Jesus was on earth to pay for our sins and be an equal ransom he had to be fully man(perfect man) on Earth anything more and it wouldn't be an equal ransom.

[falcon9]

i'm saying that when Jesus was on earth to pay for our sins and be an equal ransom he had to be fully man(perfect man) on Earth anything more and it wouldn't be an equal ransom.

Since I'm not xtian, I hadn't previously considered the 'redemption' concept as a kidnaping/ransom/payoff idea before now.  Interestingly, there are two ransom concepts to consider; the first is the ancient idea of ransoming 'royals' back in exchange for geld.  The other ransoming occurs even now with kidnappers sometimes being paid off however, they usually aren't paid when the kidnap victim is killed, (sacrificed).  It remains unclear how xtians expect to receive a 'pay-off' when the ransom victim was bumped off.

[teflonfanatic]

i'm saying that when Jesus was on earth to pay for our sins and be an equal ransom he had to be fully man(perfect man) on Earth anything more and it wouldn't be an equal ransom.

Since I'm not xtian, I hadn't previously considered the 'redemption' concept as a kidnaping/ransom/payoff idea before now.  Interestingly, there are two ransom concepts to consider; the first is the ancient idea of ransoming 'royals' back in exchange for geld.  The other ransoming occurs even now with kidnappers sometimes being paid off however, they usually aren't paid when the kidnap victim is killed, (sacrificed).  It remains unclear how xtians expect to receive a 'pay-off' when the ransom victim was bumped off.

Jesus proved that if one wanted to he can remain faithful till death, in other words it was proving satan a liar for our cause or trangressions that was the ransom.

[SurveyMack10]

The BIBLE is just another book at a book store

If that's what you believe,then why do so many Atheists get so worked up about it?I don't see their kind of reaction over War & Peace.

 

[falcon9]

i'm saying that when Jesus was on earth to pay for our sins and be an equal ransom he had to be fully man(perfect man) on Earth anything more and it wouldn't be an equal ransom.

Since I'm not xtian, I hadn't previously considered the 'redemption' concept as a kidnaping/ransom/payoff idea before now.  Interestingly, there are two ransom concepts to consider; the first is the ancient idea of ransoming 'royals' back in exchange for geld.  The other ransoming occurs even now with kidnappers sometimes being paid off however, they usually aren't paid when the kidnap victim is killed, (sacrificed).  It remains unclear how xtians expect to receive a 'pay-off' when the ransom victim was bumped off.

Jesus proved that if one wanted to he can remain faithful till death, in other words it was proving satan a liar for our cause or trangressions that was the ransom.

I was about to ask if you could rephrase your response so that it made sense however, since it didn't address the central point of kidnapping and instead, went off into some faith-based rigamorole - nevermind.

[Annella]

The BIBLE is just another book at a book store

If that's what you believe,then why do so many Atheists get so worked up about it?I don't see their kind of reaction over War & Peace.

 

Hey Mackenzie!  How you be sweetie?  Happy Thanksgiving with many blessings!

[acarswell]

You can not get to heaven by good deeds alone. So yes even if you did all those great things like cure cancer but did not accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour you would not go to heaven. 

[JediJohnnie]

If that's what you believe,then why do so many Atheists get so worked up about it?I don't see their kind of reaction over War & Peace.

Because a primitive mythological book that has people believing in things like a talking snake shouldn't be promoted or have society by the *bleep*. We should not strive to be a theocracy. That's the basic reason.

Your problem stems from failing to correctly interpret the Bible.

[JediJohnnie]

@JediJohnnie: Yes it was a foreshadowing but the High priest still paid or atoned for their sins

7 Then Moses said to Aaron: “Go near to the altar and render up your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement in your own behalf and in behalf of your house; and render up the offering of the people and make atonement in their behalf, just as Jehovah has commanded.”(Leviticus 9:7)

If you look up atonement in merriam-websters dictionary it's applied to Jesus, now of course Aaron(first high priest of Israelite nation) was not Jesus but he still atoned for the whole nation.

You say:  "Jesus is completely God in human form.He voluntarily veiled His Deity,but did not divest Himself of it."

I say how can you keep something you just emptied?

5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.(Phillipians 2:5-7)

P.S. I am not saying Jesus doesn't have the same nature as God as my religion unforunately and erroneously teaches, i'm saying that when Jesus was on earth to pay for our sins and be an equal ransom he had to be fully man(perfect man) on Earth anything more and it wouldn't be an equal ransom.

 


The term you're using (emptied) is not in the handful of biblical translations I have.I'm guessing it's a JW bible you're quoting.

[JediJohnnie]

Animal sacrifices were a type of prophesy.A shadow of Christ's Sacrifice to come.They did nothing to actually forgive sins,but was done as an act of obedience.

"Divination (from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god", related to divinus, divine) is the attempt to gain insight into a question or situation by way of an occultic standardized process or ritual such as animal sacrifice.  It was an integral part of witchcraft and has been used in various forms for thousands of years before the advent of christianity."

Christians didn't sacrifice.It was the Jews that did Animal Sacrifices in accordance with God's Law.You fail to grasp the concept that "because somebody else did it too for a different reason" means nothing.
 

[Falconer02]

Your problem stems from failing to correctly interpret the Bible.

I'm talking about reality. Not how you think your mythological texts should be interpreted.

[falcon9]

Christians didn't sacrifice.

No?  I suppose I could link references however, a recent one indicates that the 'Roman catholic church representative, (Archbishop George Daniel, head of the Pretoria archdiocese for the past 25 years), stated that animal sacrifice is not sacrilegious, it is just another facet of the "incultration process."  This process takes place when the Roman Church and Catholics in a given country try to find a suitable accommodation between church requirements and traditional practices of the native culture. Traditional Christianity has never rejected the animal sacrifice that is part of its biblical heritage.'

'Although prophets like Isaiah, Amos, Hosea, and Jeremiah denounced animal sacrifices as abominations, those condemnations did not have an affect on either orthodox Jewish or traditional Christian attitudes. Christianity validated sacrificial religion in retrospect, saying that because Jesus was the ultimate sacrificial victim, killing animals on the altars of God was no longer "necessary." ' --wwwDotallcreatures.org/hr/hrasacrificeinchurch.htm

It was the Jews that did Animal Sacrifices in accordance with God's Law.

It wasn't only the jews and it wasn't only according to one "god's law".  Animal sacrifices by other cultures and for other purposes had been going on for centuries before there were xtians or jews around.

You fail to grasp the concept that "because somebody else did it too for a different reason" means nothing.

Conversely, you've demonstrated an abject failure to grasp the concept of "incultration"; a process whereby xtian missionaries absorb native pagan practices and alter them on the altar of cultural theft.  The concept of someone else doing it first means nothing to xtian cultural thieves.

[falcon9]

Quote from: JediJohnnie:

Your problem stems from failing to correctly interpret the Bible.

I'm talking about reality. Not how you think your mythological texts should be interpreted.

Based entirely upon prior baseless opinion put forth by the pseudo-jedi, a reasonable extrapolation would be his continued failure to discern the difference you emphasized.