To the Christian who thinks only those who accept Christ will go to heaven....

[foreverinlove05]

walksalone has a point. even though i don't believe in god, i don't condemn or look down on those who do, i think it's great that people believe in whatever they do, that's what makes everyone different. i aspire to be like them one day, either i'll end up being christian or muslim, still on the fence about it right now.

[shernajwine]

Honestly I have been shocked in the past by what I expected from Christian people and what I actually saw from them. When I worked as a server at a restaurant on Sundays, after morning service let out we had a lunch rush and you could tell normally the people that had just come from church. Ladies wearing dresses and hats and men wearing their nice suits, kids dressed up....you know. And I approach these tables thinking here are some kindred spirits just having come from church, (I know when I leave church I am in the best mood of the week and I just want to hug everybody I see!) and yet........

These were some of the rudest, short tempered, snobby people that came in the restaurant! And they tipped crap. I couldn't believe it lol. Obviously that's not all Christians behavior because I myself never tip less than 5 even if it's just a cup of coffee and even if I get horrible service I leave a 15% tip. I know what it's like to be in that industry and it's difficult, I hated it and I just can't bear to leave my table knowing my server may have kids to support and God only knows what going in their life. And the majority of my family and friends feel the same as I do.

None the less, I just don't understand people like that.  

[travislang]

well, then since we looking at the facts lets look at the bible. if you read the bible im sure you would have to agree that it says no where that gay or lesbian is a sin, yet christians say it is...also it does mention that incest is ok only when it suites gods purpose, that is a bit to faced dont you think not to mention wrong....it also states jesus forgiving a prostitute, but so many today look down on them and talk badly about them. it also states that we are to love each other but why are so many christian leaders supporting war and making war in gods name....why is it that the christian kill so many people, and stole land from any one that wasnt christian.

i am sorry but history proves and the bible proves that christianity is what is wrong with this world, look at the facts again...

[shernajwine]

i am sorry but history proves and the bible proves that christianity is what is wrong with this world, look at the facts again...

I don't think you have looked at the facts sir. The bible does say homosexuality is a sin (although some argue the interpretation of the words, a man laying with a man as with a woman is unnatural) but those words are in the bible. Incest is not okay, and Jesus did forgive a prostitute, he forgives every kind of sin. War is unfortunate but necessary in some cases. When evil men with evil plans attempt to oppress people in their lust for power, it is necessary that surrounding nations aid the oppressed in gaining back their freedom. Initially there are pleas for peace but when parties refuse, war ensues.

You seem to have limited knowledge of the bible and an unrealistic view of world peace, on top of the fact that you are willfully ignorant in your opinion of Christianity because I posted statistics and posted links to my statistics showing the effect of religious related conflicts in the 20th century and you apparently didn't feel the need to bother with it and stuck to you opinion. That my friend is rather closed minded I must say.

And on a personal note, Jesus is the best thing that ever happened to me. And I'm not alone in the world to say so. So a great deal many other people within the 2.1 billion Christians on the planet currently, would disagree with your statement.

So unless you want to debate fairly by actually reading peoples' posts and sources then I'm politely declining to respond to you on these matters further. 

[travislang]

i have to say i did, and yes incest is ok even in bible terms....if not ok then how did we all get here, if there is no record of god creating anyone but adam and eve. for us to be here today adam and eve would have to commit incest which was ok because it suited god at the time.....now again when god destroyed his children with the flood, only noahs and his family was left, so again for us to be here they would have to commit incest which is ok again because it suites gods porpose, so again anything that is a sin is wrong to do unless god says its ok.....

[shernajwine]

i have to say i did, and yes incest is ok even in bible terms....if not ok then how did we all get here, if there is no record of god creating anyone but adam and eve. for us to be here today adam and eve would have to commit incest which was ok because it suited god at the time.....now again when god destroyed his children with the flood, only noahs and his family was left, so again for us to be here they would have to commit incest which is ok again because it suites gods porpose, so again anything that is a sin is wrong to do unless god says its ok.....

Ok well I apologize if you did read my sources and posts. Then it appears you hold your opinion despite evidence to the contrary. That's also closed minded but you have a right to your opinion. So I won't argue that point.

As for incest. It is important to distinguish between incestuous relationships prior to God commanding against them (Leviticus 18:6-18), and incest that occurred after God’s commands had been revealed. Until God commanded against it, it was not incest. It was just marrying a close relative.It is undeniable that God allowed incest in the early centuries of humanity. If Adam and Eve were indeed the only two human beings God created, their sons and daughters would have had no other choice but to marry and reproduce with their siblings and close relatives. The second generation would have had to marry their cousins, just as after the flood the grandchildren of Noah would have had to intermarry amongst their cousins. The reason incest is so strongly discouraged in the world today is the understanding that reproduction between closely related individuals has a much higher risk of causing genetic abnormalities. In the early days of humanity, though, this was not a risk due to the fact that the human genetic code was relatively free of defects. http://www.gotquestions.org/incest-in-the-Bible.html

[travislang]

and yes i do hold my opinions dear.....just as you do....but understand please i am not bashing youfor believeing what you do believe. i am glad you found comfort in christianity. but i do ask in return to see the points of others as well....it is known history fact that christianity also hunted down and killed people of my religion and also to this day preach against my religion, i am pagan and yes a witch as well.   i know this to be true for i was at one time a christian and a minister. but cold not any longer preach such lies out of good faith due to my personal opinions and research....and yes i also do think that the research you have done and provided is good but also it is biased toward the christian way of thinking.

[dokkbudd]

The funny thing is.... out of EVERYONE who would take a "position" on this... if asked..... could not VERIFY ANYTHING..... but "their own" PERSONAL EXPERIENCES n BELIEFS!!! KNOW THIS FOLKS...... anything you cannot verify is FICTION to anyone else...... there is absolutely NO REASON to get "upset" or "worked up" about anyones FICTIONAL OPINIONS!!!

When a group of people have spent the last 500 plus years trying to force their "fiction" onto your people and the same "fictional" beliefs are directly responsible for the deaths of in excess of 10 million of your Relations, then tell me there is nothing to get worked up about. Until then you do you, let everyone else do themselves and try to limit your "opinion" about issues you have absolutely no clue of.

Before I end up making any..... well.... ASSUMPTIONS.... I'd try to VERIFY even your seemingly emotional STATEMENTS.... with a few mere questions of course!!!!

Are you suggesting that the actual attempt to "force" fiction on a group of people... is "RESPONSIBLE" for anyone's death...?

Are you suggesting that any of my OWN opinions.... do NOT "let everyone do themselves".... or that they somehow pass any judgements...?

What "issue"...  are you suggesting I have "no clue of" to begin with...?

Are you suggesting that creating a "limit" for my OPINIONS... will in some way create some type of REMEDY.....??
If so..... What are the DAMAGES caused by a "limitless" opinion... that would need such a remedy...?


Whatever your answers are.... wouldn't it seem quite "insane" for me to JUDGE your standing... place a LABEL(right/wrong) on it... and decide to cause you DAMAGES behind it...?

Why exactly is it NOT ok for ANYONE to have these same opinions of RELIGION....?

Do even their opinions cause any DAMAGES to anyone.... by just being DIFFERENT???


Is it possible that it's NOT the belief/opinion itself that "damages" someone... but the ACTIONS taken "in the name" of these beliefs/opinions...??

What is the IMPORTANCE in trying to convince someone else of your beliefs...??

Is it possible that the VIOLENCE that may occur due to a "difference of opinion".... may have an original MOTIVE based on CONTROL....??

Is it possible that NITHER opinion or belief system or any RELIGION is NECESSARY for having an original motive for CONTROL....?

Is it possible that many people have placed BLAME(judgement) on different opinions... for many UNDESIREABLE EVENTS and MOTIVES.... that needed only human will....?



-jussathought-

[shernajwine]

and yes i do hold my opinions dear.....just as you do....but understand please i am not bashing youfor believeing what you do believe. i am glad you found comfort in christianity. but i do ask in return to see the points of others as well....it is known history fact that christianity also hunted down and killed people of my religion and also to this day preach against my religion, i am pagan and yes a witch as well.   i know this to be true for i was at one time a christian and a minister. but cold not any longer preach such lies out of good faith due to my personal opinions and research....and yes i also do think that the research you have done and provided is good but also it is biased toward the christian way of thinking.

I do see the points of others, just because I can listen to and understand others religious or non religious beliefs does not mean I accept them or agree with them.

Yes Christianity preaches against witchcraft because it is against our faith to practice it. There are groups of Christians who took it too far and took it upon themselves to go witch hunting, that does not represent every other Christian nor even necessarily the majority.

I read materials and view media from every point of view. A statistic is based on numbers not opinions. My research on the statistics of religious conflicts are not biased it is simply a number.

Your mistake along with many others is taking all the bad things Christians have done, along with your own personal negative experience and lumping all Christianity together. That is dishonest and unfair. You are entitled to your opinion but when you make statements so broad as to say that Christianity is the worst thing that ever happened to the world you put me, a person you have never met, and have no place to judge,  in that statement.

You may say, "Hey don't take it personally" But what if I said all people who practice witchcraft worship the devil and sacrifice children. You give me statistics and sources saying it isn't the case and I say your statistic and source is biased and therefore I assume that because you practice witchcraft you worship the devil and sacrifice children.

Despite not having met you, knowing practically nothing about you, I make a judgment about you and your faith and then extend my biased opinion of your faith to every single person like you.

I'm sorry sir but when you make statements like you did, you are bashing my religion. And since my faith is personal to me, you are bashing what I believe. Maybe it was not your intention but that is exactly what you did.

[walksalone11]

The funny thing is.... out of EVERYONE who would take a "position" on this... if asked..... could not VERIFY ANYTHING..... but "their own" PERSONAL EXPERIENCES n BELIEFS!!! KNOW THIS FOLKS...... anything you cannot verify is FICTION to anyone else...... there is absolutely NO REASON to get "upset" or "worked up" about anyones FICTIONAL OPINIONS!!!

When a group of people have spent the last 500 plus years trying to force their "fiction" onto your people and the same "fictional" beliefs are directly responsible for the deaths of in excess of 10 million of your Relations, then tell me there is nothing to get worked up about. Until then you do you, let everyone else do themselves and try to limit your "opinion" about issues you have absolutely no clue of.

Before I end up making any..... well.... ASSUMPTIONS.... I'd try to VERIFY even your seemingly emotional STATEMENTS.... with a few mere questions of course!!!!

Are you suggesting that the actual attempt to "force" fiction on a group of people... is "RESPONSIBLE" for anyone's death...?

Are you suggesting that any of my OWN opinions.... do NOT "let everyone do themselves".... or that they somehow pass any judgements...?

What "issue"...  are you suggesting I have "no clue of" to begin with...?

Are you suggesting that creating a "limit" for my OPINIONS... will in some way create some type of REMEDY.....??
If so..... What are the DAMAGES caused by a "limitless" opinion... that would need such a remedy...?


Whatever your answers are.... wouldn't it seem quite "insane" for me to JUDGE your standing... place a LABEL(right/wrong) on it... and decide to cause you DAMAGES behind it...?

Why exactly is it NOT ok for ANYONE to have these same opinions of RELIGION....?

Do even their opinions cause any DAMAGES to anyone.... by just being DIFFERENT???


Is it possible that it's NOT the belief/opinion itself that "damages" someone... but the ACTIONS taken "in the name" of these beliefs/opinions...??

What is the IMPORTANCE in trying to convince someone else of your beliefs...??

Is it possible that the VIOLENCE that may occur due to a "difference of opinion".... may have an original MOTIVE based on CONTROL....??

Is it possible that NITHER opinion or belief system or any RELIGION is NECESSARY for having an original motive for CONTROL....?

Is it possible that many people have placed BLAME(judgement) on different opinions... for many UNDESIREABLE EVENTS and MOTIVES.... that needed only human will....?



-jussathought-

Ok Dorkbudd, that made my head hurt trying to understand what you were asking in some of them questions, but I will answer a few but briefly for now as I had oral surgery today and really don't feel up to lengthy debate at this time.

yes
yes
genocide
no and n/a

the rest will have to wait for another time

[JuletLindo]

A common question.

That's a topic for 'one's works'. And believe it or not, the Bible mentions it! It's one thing to ask a question, but let's be sure we aren't answering it ourselves (forming an opinion before even researching the answer).

Scripture makes it clear that works alone will not 'reserve your spot in heaven'.

“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5)

There is nothing we can do to earn God's grace - He gives it us! How can we say 'But God, I just cured cancer. Doesn't that count?' Of course, if you were to ever do such a thing that would be amazing and wonderful, but changes nothing. There are many people who do amazing things everyday, but if we could 'earn' our way through the door..I think a LOT of people wouldn't come close. Understand His grace and how He wants to be apart of your life. Focus on that, is my suggestion. Because then, I believe, you'll do those works in His name.

I guess it all comes down to understanding the Lord. Without that, we'll ask a lot of questions that already has answers and think the wrong things that are not written and just turn against our Lord altogether simply because we did not understand.

"Wisdom is found on the lips of him who has understanding, but a rod is for the back of him who is devoid of understanding." (Proverb 10:13)

I strongly recommend you to look into this further, IF you really want to learn and are interested in ways of understanding the Lord and seeking heaven. However, if you only care to live your life in whatever fashion of your desire..Then there's no reason to speak of what you believe God wants when you don't even understand. (It's kind of like having an opinion of a research paper without actually doing the research!)


Hope that helps!

[tommygun2]

wow I have nothing to say

[walksalone11]

It makes totally zero sense to use the bible as a credible reference unless Christians are the only people debating a subject. Honestly, you might as well quote Dr. Suess.

[shernajwine]

It makes totally zero sense to use the bible as a credible reference unless Christians are the only people debating a subject. Honestly, you might as well quote Dr. Suess.

Well walks 502 addressed this thread to Christians and Christians use the bible. So in this instance quoting Dr. Suess would not have answered 502's question.

[SurveyMack10]

So your telling me... that anyone who does not accept christ will be doomed to eternal suffering???
ok.
so what if...... i cured cancer. ended world hunger and made sure every child in the world got and education?... but heres the catch. i was an outspoken athiest who mocked religion and denied it completely. would your god send me to suffer for eternity, despite the fact of all the good i had done?

The point isn't just to do good, but to also do God's will. To honor Him in everything you do and realize he is the one who blessed you and gave you the opportunity to do those things, and to try to spread that word in at least some small way.