The thread for those who don't know the trinity.

[mstachitus]

Well, in each of my posts in your thread, I have tried my best to explain it the best I could.  I included the link as well, that is excellent in explaining the trinity.  I tried to answer your question and I'm really sorry you don't consider my responses as a help (quote by you): "Thank you and i'll read it but the point of this thread is for churchgoers here to accurately explain it to both atheists(who i'm not) and believers who reject the trinity(which I am and believe me there's many).  I've watched many debates and read many pages about the trinity both for and against. I need one question answered at a time and not 20+ questions answered at once. Anyway the questions still stands."

Perhaps if you go back and really read what people are answering to you, including doing your own research, and even speaking with your pastor or reliable source, you will actually find what you are looking for. I spent quite a bit of time checking in the Bible, online, and study books, to make sure that I was answering what I thought you were wanting to know. Even then, I guess I didn't pass the test for you. I don't know how else to answer anymore on this because I already did the best I could. I truly hope and pray you will find the truth about the trinity and not just what you are wanting to see out of it for your own gain.

Well ... that's the thing isn't it?  No matter how much you study on the topic of the trinity, it will never make sense.  For one thing, it was never meant to make sense when they thought it up.  It was meant to make God a mystical, incomprehensible being, who no mortal could ever hope to understand or have anything in common with.

Interesting that we were meant to learn of God, to be perfect as he is perfect, and that we were created in His image.  He is literally our father, and the closer we come to him, the more we will learn of him and comprehend his true nature.  He wants us to know him.

"For this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

[jcribb16]

mstachitus: You are absolutely right.  When I responded with that last comment, I was reminded by a friend that ultimately we should be striving to bring others to know the Lord, and to be serving our Lord until He comes again.  I wholeheartedly agree with you that the trinity, as well as other issues having to do with God, are not meant for us to totally understand since God's mind is higher than our minds.  So, I thank you, too, for reminding me of that - all I was doing was trying to keep pushing against the fence with no way to knock it down!

[Annella]

Well, in each of my posts in your thread, I have tried my best to explain it the best I could.  I included the link as well, that is excellent in explaining the trinity.  I tried to answer your question and I'm really sorry you don't consider my responses as a help (quote by you): "Thank you and i'll read it but the point of this thread is for churchgoers here to accurately explain it to both atheists(who i'm not) and believers who reject the trinity(which I am and believe me there's many).  I've watched many debates and read many pages about the trinity both for and against. I need one question answered at a time and not 20+ questions answered at once. Anyway the questions still stands."

Perhaps if you go back and really read what people are answering to you, including doing your own research, and even speaking with your pastor or reliable source, you will actually find what you are looking for. I spent quite a bit of time checking in the Bible, online, and study books, to make sure that I was answering what I thought you were wanting to know. Even then, I guess I didn't pass the test for you. I don't know how else to answer anymore on this because I already did the best I could. I truly hope and pray you will find the truth about the trinity and not just what you are wanting to see out of it for your own gain.

Well ... that's the thing isn't it?  No matter how much you study on the topic of the trinity, it will never make sense.  For one thing, it was never meant to make sense when they thought it up.  It was meant to make God a mystical, incomprehensible being, who no mortal could ever hope to understand or have anything in common with.

Interesting that we were meant to learn of God, to be perfect as he is perfect, and that we were created in His image.  He is literally our father, and the closer we come to him, the more we will learn of him and comprehend his true nature.  He wants us to know him.

"For this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

It can't be said any better than this above.

The more you study,and draw closer to God, the more He reveals Himself to us.  The trinity doesn't make sense, and is confusing at best.

[mstachitus]

mstachitus: You are absolutely right.  When I responded with that last comment, I was reminded by a friend that ultimately we should be striving to bring others to know the Lord, and to be serving our Lord until He comes again.  I wholeheartedly agree with you that the trinity, as well as other issues having to do with God, are not meant for us to totally understand since God's mind is higher than our minds.  So, I thank you, too, for reminding me of that - all I was doing was trying to keep pushing against the fence with no way to knock it down!

I'm sorry if I seem confrontational.  It is not my intent to put down the beliefs of others.  I hope you take my posts in the way they were intended, which is merely my view on things.

In the end, it is every persons right to worship in the manner that so pleases them, or even to not worship at all.  I still believe that there is one true doctrine of Christ, and that His church organization exists in its fullness, but the agency of man is of supreme importance, so we should never try to impose our beliefs onto others.  Loving persuasion and meekness will go so much farther than arrogant, forceful decrees.

If you choose to believe in the Trinity, you have a right to continue, and I support you in your agency.  I choose not to, and I expect my own beliefs to be respected as well.

[teflonfanatic]

Well, in each of my posts in your thread, I have tried my best to explain it the best I could.  I included the link as well, that is excellent in explaining the trinity.  I tried to answer your question and I'm really sorry you don't consider my responses as a help (quote by you): "Thank you and i'll read it but the point of this thread is for churchgoers here to accurately explain it to both atheists(who i'm not) and believers who reject the trinity(which I am and believe me there's many).  I've watched many debates and read many pages about the trinity both for and against. I need one question answered at a time and not 20+ questions answered at once. Anyway the questions still stands."

Perhaps if you go back and really read what people are answering to you, including doing your own research, and even speaking with your pastor or reliable source, you will actually find what you are looking for. I spent quite a bit of time checking in the Bible, online, and study books, to make sure that I was answering what I thought you were wanting to know. Even then, I guess I didn't pass the test for you. I don't know how else to answer anymore on this because I already did the best I could. I truly hope and pray you will find the truth about the trinity and not just what you are wanting to see out of it for your own gain.

I am reading peoples comments and doing my own research hence the watching apostate videos and watching trinitarian debates and looking up the "proof texts" etc. 

"I truly hope and pray you will find the truth about the trinity and not just what you are wanting to see out of it for your own gain."

No offense but your defeating your own prayer, God uses us to promote the truth about him, by closing the door on an interested one(me) your giving up on an interested one. You could have also took time off few weeks/months I don't care to research the question and come back no one knows everything. If I wanted to make a trinity bashing topic I would've made it but instead I humbled myself and not made one remark towards the doctrine I just asked questions based off what I heard and read was it's teachings.

 "Even then, I guess I didn't pass the test for you. I don't know how else to answer anymore on this because I already did the best I could."

It's true questions are a test but this isn't an exam or anything this is simply getting to the heart of the matter.

[jcribb16]

mstachitus: You are absolutely right.  When I responded with that last comment, I was reminded by a friend that ultimately we should be striving to bring others to know the Lord, and to be serving our Lord until He comes again.  I wholeheartedly agree with you that the trinity, as well as other issues having to do with God, are not meant for us to totally understand since God's mind is higher than our minds.  So, I thank you, too, for reminding me of that - all I was doing was trying to keep pushing against the fence with no way to knock it down!

I'm sorry if I seem confrontational.  It is not my intent to put down the beliefs of others.  I hope you take my posts in the way they were intended, which is merely my view on things.

In the end, it is every persons right to worship in the manner that so pleases them, or even to not worship at all.  I still believe that there is one true doctrine of Christ, and that His church organization exists in its fullness, but the agency of man is of supreme importance, so we should never try to impose our beliefs onto others.  Loving persuasion and meekness will go so much farther than arrogant, forceful decrees.

If you choose to believe in the Trinity, you have a right to continue, and I support you in your agency.  I choose not to, and I expect my own beliefs to be respected as well.

Believe me, I didn't take you as confrontational!!  I was agreeing with you.  I wasn't getting anywhere with my comments with the other poster. You just helped to put my perspective back in place.  I really appreciate what you have to offer.  I look forward to getting to know you! 

[jcribb16]

Teflonfanatic,  All I was meaning is that everything I wrote to you, it was as if my answers weren't what you were either looking for or wanting as answers.  I am not going to push anything on anyone and I felt you were finished with what I had to offer.

(quote by you): "Thank you and i'll read it but the point of this thread is for churchgoers here to accurately explain it to both atheists(who i'm not) and believers who reject the trinity(which I am and believe me there's many).  I've watched many debates and read many pages about the trinity both for and against. I need one question answered at a time and not 20+ questions answered at once. Anyway the questions still stands."

**You want it accurately explained - I thought I was trying to answer as accurately as I could.
**You need one question answered at a time - I was answering one question and it was about the trinity concept.  I did not try and answer 20+ questions because you only asked one and I was answering one.

So, to stop getting in your way, I backed off.  In no way would I drop anyone seeking for anwers, but I will not upset people by pushing and I won't keep on when it seems like my anwers don't count.

[teflonfanatic]

Teflonfanatic,  All I was meaning is that everything I wrote to you, it was as if my answers weren't what you were either looking for or wanting as answers.  I am not going to push anything on anyone and I felt you were finished with what I had to offer.

(quote by you): "Thank you and i'll read it but the point of this thread is for churchgoers here to accurately explain it to both atheists(who i'm not) and believers who reject the trinity(which I am and believe me there's many).  I've watched many debates and read many pages about the trinity both for and against. I need one question answered at a time and not 20+ questions answered at once. Anyway the questions still stands."

**You want it accurately explained - I thought I was trying to answer as accurately as I could.
**You need one question answered at a time - I was answering one question and it was about the trinity concept.  I did not try and answer 20+ questions because you only asked one and I was answering one.

No you were answering satisfactory and you weren't pushing or making me upset come back, my fail communication  no seriously come back.
So, to stop getting in your way, I backed off.  In no way would I drop anyone seeking for anwers, but I will not upset people by pushing and I won't keep on when it seems like my anwers don't count.

[Willie353]

I believe in the trinity. Of course I have run into people who dont believe in it they say the word trinity is not in the bible.Well that is true however you will find that in the book of Gen that God said let US make man in OUR own image. Man was nade a trinity. Im not going to argue this point but I believe in the trinity whole heartedly!

[jcribb16]

Quote from teflonfanatic:
No you were answering satisfactory and you weren't pushing or making me upset come back, my fail communication  no seriously come back.


Ok.  Thank you!

[angelhome]

I'll represent both believers and atheists who want to get an accurate description of the trinity if possible. I'll make a statement or two then i'll ask a question, i'll respond to the one who gives the first sufficient answer meaning it's not just a bunch of stitched scriptures or one word statements but explaining WHY

Anyway my first question is about the Athanasian creed is there statement 100% accurate of todays trinity?

 "there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, nonr greater or less then another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God."

Continue to send the WORD. GOD says those who spread the good news have beautiful feet!!! FYI: HIS MOTHER NAMED HIM YESHUA - AMERICAN CALLS HIM JESUS... There are no "J"s in the Hebrew language... I pray we all agree HE was Jewish... thanks again for beginning this string.

[cubarican210]

Well for they the father, the son, and the holy spirit are totally separate. They cooperate but they are not one in the same. When Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove. Separate from Jesus. The Father is one Person, The Son is another separate Person, and the Holy Spirit is just that a Spirit which is the way you can feel God's presence because we can not see God. If we were to see God we would surely die. Jacob was the only fortunate man to have wrestled with God and live. God made him limp for the rest of his life because he spared him.

This is my opinion. This is how I view it. I don't want anyone putting me down because I think like this. I'm not putting anyone else down on this thread. Please respect my opinion. Thank You.

[teflonfanatic]

Well for they the father, the son, and the holy spirit are totally separate. They cooperate but they are not one in the same. When Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove. Separate from Jesus. The Father is one Person, The Son is another separate Person, and the Holy Spirit is just that a Spirit which is the way you can feel God's presence because we can not see God. If we were to see God we would surely die. Jacob was the only fortunate man to have wrestled with God and live. God made him limp for the rest of his life because he spared him.

This is my opinion. This is how I view it. I don't want anyone putting me down because I think like this. I'm not putting anyone else down on this thread. Please respect my opinion. Thank You.

It was later revealed that Jacob wrestled with an angel. Sounds like God is a community instead of a singular spirit.

My next question since the other one is near impossible to answer is why is there no visions of the holy spirit in the bible? There's not one vision in the whole bible of seeing the holy spirit yet people saw God and Jesus in visions.

[jcribb16]

Well for they the father, the son, and the holy spirit are totally separate. They cooperate but they are not one in the same. When Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove. Separate from Jesus. The Father is one Person, The Son is another separate Person, and the Holy Spirit is just that a Spirit which is the way you can feel God's presence because we can not see God. If we were to see God we would surely die. Jacob was the only fortunate man to have wrestled with God and live. God made him limp for the rest of his life because he spared him.

This is my opinion. This is how I view it. I don't want anyone putting me down because I think like this. I'm not putting anyone else down on this thread. Please respect my opinion. Thank You.

It was later revealed that Jacob wrestled with an angel. Sounds like God is a community instead of a singular spirit.

My next question since the other one is near impossible to answer is why is there no visions of the holy spirit in the bible? There's not one vision in the whole bible of seeing the holy spirit yet people saw God and Jesus in visions.

Teflonfanatic, that's because when Jesus rose again and later appeared, he told his disciples that He, himself would not be seen now - it was now His job to be with His Father.  But that He would have the Holy Spirit to comfort us until He returns again.  And as you know, a "spirit" or "ghost" is not actually seen, although some people say they have seen ghosts.

 Ephesians 1:13, 14 says, "In whom (Jesus) ye also trusted (by the people in the New Testament before his death, burial, and resurrection), after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that (his resurrection and going to be with His Father), ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption (when He comes again) of the purchased possession (the saved in Christ), unto the praise of his glory."

I hope this helps, even if just a little.

[teflonfanatic]

Well for they the father, the son, and the holy spirit are totally separate. They cooperate but they are not one in the same. When Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove. Separate from Jesus. The Father is one Person, The Son is another separate Person, and the Holy Spirit is just that a Spirit which is the way you can feel God's presence because we can not see God. If we were to see God we would surely die. Jacob was the only fortunate man to have wrestled with God and live. God made him limp for the rest of his life because he spared him.

This is my opinion. This is how I view it. I don't want anyone putting me down because I think like this. I'm not putting anyone else down on this thread. Please respect my opinion. Thank You.

It was later revealed that Jacob wrestled with an angel. Sounds like God is a community instead of a singular spirit.

My next question since the other one is near impossible to answer is why is there no visions of the holy spirit in the bible? There's not one vision in the whole bible of seeing the holy spirit yet people saw God and Jesus in visions.

Teflonfanatic, that's because when Jesus rose again and later appeared, he told his disciples that He, himself would not be seen now - it was now His job to be with His Father.  But that He would have the Holy Spirit to comfort us until He returns again.  And as you know, a "spirit" or "ghost" is not actually seen, although some people say they have seen ghosts.

 Ephesians 1:13, 14 says, "In whom (Jesus) ye also trusted (by the people in the New Testament before his death, burial, and resurrection), after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that (his resurrection and going to be with His Father), ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption (when He comes again) of the purchased possession (the saved in Christ), unto the praise of his glory."

I hope this helps, even if just a little.

Actually spirits can be seen if God allows you to, well back then anyway(Numbers 22:31)(Daniel 7:13,14) is some examples. In the New covenant you have(Acts 7:55-56). These are just some examples of seeing spirits by visions.

Anyway The question still stands and you helped a little.