Do you believe in the afterlife?

[jcribb16]

if someone chooses to be unhealthy it does not affect you in any way. Also, not everyone who eats at at McDonalds is unhealthy.

Seriously? 'Now, the reason obese people are a burden to society, and the medical industry in paticular, is that they are more susceptible to heart attacks, cancer, and diabetes than people who are not overweight. Over sixty-eight BILLION dollars a year are spent on doctor's fees and missed time at work. They are the third largest segment of the population impacting the total cost of health care.'

I want to remind you that not all obese people are that way because they don't care and/or let themselves get that way on their own.  There are a lot of obese or heavier people who have pre-existing health issues; develop a health issue; etc., and in return, by not being able to do what they were used to doing, or by certain medications and/or disabilites they have, are affected with the extra gaining of weight. 

Flipping the coin, there are just as many anorexic-looking people who cannot gain weight, and have issues as well.  My point?  This country is not and will never be made up of "perfect" sized people.  And you must be one of the "perfect" sized people to make such a comment as to obese people being a burden to society.  That is an insult to them: you don't know them personally and you do not know their health issues. 

[jcribb16]

Quote from SurveyMack:
Christians on this forum are NOT "unintelligent, delusional, or irrational  by definition" and if you look back through these posts often, but not always, atheists do call them dumb whe it is totally uncalled for

Quote from: Falconer02 on September 16, 2011, 10:43:05 pm
Like I stated before, not all of them display these traits. But many of them have. We've had such posters arguing that faith healing cures AIDS, constant end-of-the-world promoters, one saying hell is physical and lies at the center of the earth, fearmongering jerks that bash other beliefs and say 'they're taking over slowly!'. Heck, one person told me I was going to hell because I caught him in a philosophical conundrum. Another said I was posessed by a demon because I was being skeptical of her claim. If you don't think these examples fit within the "unintelligent, delusional, or irrational" group, then...umm....I really don't know what to say except 'just another day in D+D'.

Quote from Falcon9:
The following parable was not written by me however, it exemplifies an apropo parallel in this context {edited PG version}:

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber:


This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians.

[falcon9]

I want to remind you that not all obese people are that way because they don't care and/or let themselves get that way on their own.  There are a lot of obese or heavier people who have pre-existing health issues; develop a health issue; etc., and in return, by not being able to do what they were used to doing, or by certain medications and/or disabilites they have, are affected with the extra gaining of weight. 

Flipping the coin, there are just as many anorexic-looking people who cannot gain weight, and have issues as well.  My point?  This country is not and will never be made up of "perfect" sized people.  And you must be one of the "perfect" sized people to make such a comment as to obese people being a burden to society.  That is an insult to them: you don't know them personally and you do not know their health issues. 

I actually agree with the above points and didn't state or, imply otherwise.  What the statement made did indicate is that, for those who do make the choice to eat in an more unhealthy manner, (or smoke, or drink, or lay out exposed in the sun, or drive drunk, etc.), these choices add to the overall heathcare cost burden for everyone else who uses healthcare.  The others with pre-existing health issues aren't choosing to have them, (by and large), and that segment of the population wasn't being addressed with my statement.  Some people do their best to eat in a healthy way and still get sick; this wasn't the point.  The point was made about those who deliberately choose to eat in a mainly unhealthy manner and then end up with subsequent health problems directly related to their choices.

[falcon9]

if someone chooses to be unhealthy it does not affect you in any way. Also, not everyone who eats at at McDonalds is unhealthy.

Seriously? 'Now, the reason obese people are a burden to society, and the medical industry in paticular, is that they are more susceptible to heart attacks, cancer, and diabetes than people who are not overweight. Over sixty-eight BILLION dollars a year are spent on doctor's fees and missed time at work. They are the third largest segment of the population impacting the total cost of health care.'

I am going to continue to have an intelligent conversation with falconer and opt out of the word games you like to play on every forum- ALSO, if someone wants to spend their money on healthcare instead of dieting that is their free will. Your lifestyle choices do not reflect those of everyone else, and as long as you want that to happen you are going to live a very unsatisfactory life. Great thing about America is that we have freedom. Once again, NOT EVERYONE WHO EATS AT MCDONALDS IS UNHEALTHY.

Your ad hominem aside, I contend that it is your choice to respond or not to forum remarks in the hostile manner envinced by your snide comments.  It's almost as if you were choosing to be irrational ...

[falcon9]

Quote from: Falconer02 on September 16, 2011, 10:43:05 pm
Like I stated before, not all of them display these traits. But many of them have. We've had such posters arguing that faith healing cures AIDS, constant end-of-the-world promoters, one saying hell is physical and lies at the center of the earth, fearmongering jerks that bash other beliefs and say 'they're taking over slowly!'. Heck, one person told me I was going to hell because I caught him in a philosophical conundrum. Another said I was posessed by a demon because I was being skeptical of her claim. If you don't think these examples fit within the "unintelligent, delusional, or irrational" group, then...umm....I really don't know what to say except 'just another day in D+D'.

Quote from Falcon9:
The following parable was not written by me however, it exemplifies an apropo parallel in this context {edited PG version}:

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber:


This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians.

No, this is a parody of evangelical xtians written by a Reverand Jim Huber.

[geraldp1953]

Yes if I believe in God and I believe there is life after this one. That’s heaven or hell. 

[Falconer02]

do agree that those extremists are not exemplifying what Christianity is supposed to be about, and they often give the whole group of Christians a bad name. Which is one reason many of us join in these debates to explain that not all Christians are that way. On the same note, I have encountered many atheists- even here on D&D- that dont give atheists a very good name either, and I don't loop them all into one category because of it.

I do agree that my examples of users are furthest from exemplary, but it's extremely uncommon to see anyone in the atheist group needlessly start a thread to highlight beliefs involving an irrational argument that gets everyone frustrated. I imagine 98% of the time the rudeness comes as a response to someones claim. You may lose a bit of respect for me here, but I vaguely recall myself just getting fed up with someone who said I'd burn in hell for eternity if I didn't subscribe to their beliefs-- they were needlessly pompous, pessimistic, and just childish to the point of just cursing me out. In return I called them a *bleep* (to illustrate that my durragatory term and what they said were not that different) and suddenly the entire christian group was just overly horrified that I could say such an awful thing! Nevermind that I was just cursed into oblvion and to be tormented for all eternity-- nobody highlighted that at all. Someone got called a *bleep* for being a *bleep* and therefore I'm the evildoer.  

(Pardon my french btw)

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber

Thanks for sharing. I vaguely recall reading this years ago, but I totally forgot about it. Added to my "debate" bookmarks! lol

This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians

All the author did was take biblical names and replace them with everyday things. Sometimes aligning aspects from a belief system with other things can make someone understand (on either side of the spectrum) what others think of those beliefs.

[falcon9]

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber

Thanks for sharing. I vaguely recall reading this years ago, but I totally forgot about it. Added to my "debate" bookmarks! lol

This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians

All the author did was take biblical names and replace them with everyday things. Sometimes aligning aspects from a belief system with other things can make someone understand (on either side of the spectrum) what others think of those beliefs.

Yep, that little parable had gathered dust for ten years until I remembered it from a usenet debate, rescued from the archives and reposted it here.  If it really were a "sarcastic example of belittling god and xtians" then, so is xtianity. 

[jcribb16]

Quote from: Falconer02 on September 16, 2011, 10:43:05 pm
Like I stated before, not all of them display these traits. But many of them have. We've had such posters arguing that faith healing cures AIDS, constant end-of-the-world promoters, one saying hell is physical and lies at the center of the earth, fearmongering jerks that bash other beliefs and say 'they're taking over slowly!'. Heck, one person told me I was going to hell because I caught him in a philosophical conundrum. Another said I was posessed by a demon because I was being skeptical of her claim. If you don't think these examples fit within the "unintelligent, delusional, or irrational" group, then...umm....I really don't know what to say except 'just another day in D+D'.

Quote from Falcon9:
The following parable was not written by me however, it exemplifies an apropo parallel in this context {edited PG version}:

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber:


This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians.

No, this is a parody of evangelical xtians written by a Reverand Jim Huber.

And this was just a PG version?  Also, this Jim Huber is a humanist/athiest.  I maintain my comment.

[falcon9]

Also, this Jim Huber is a humanist/athiest.  I maintain my comment.

Being either a humanist or an atheist does not make the parody any less apropo than if a xtian, muslim or AI program wrote it.  Your comment is merely your unsupported opinion of preference, rather than an objective dissent.

[ricky981]

Exactly like before you were born.

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
Mark Twain

Y'all are kidding yourselves if you think the only 2 options are heaven or hell.

  who knows what to become of what? are when. unless you witness it yourself and then who going to believe you when you explain it.

[SurveyMack10]

I want to remind you that not all obese people are that way because they don't care and/or let themselves get that way on their own.  There are a lot of obese or heavier people who have pre-existing health issues; develop a health issue; etc., and in return, by not being able to do what they were used to doing, or by certain medications and/or disabilites they have, are affected with the extra gaining of weight. 

Flipping the coin, there are just as many anorexic-looking people who cannot gain weight, and have issues as well.  My point?  This country is not and will never be made up of "perfect" sized people.  And you must be one of the "perfect" sized people to make such a comment as to obese people being a burden to society.  That is an insult to them: you don't know them personally and you do not know their health issues. 

I actually agree with the above points and didn't state or, imply otherwise.  What the statement made did indicate is that, for those who do make the choice to eat in an more unhealthy manner, (or smoke, or drink, or lay out exposed in the sun, or drive drunk, etc.), these choices add to the overall heathcare cost burden for everyone else who uses healthcare.  The others with pre-existing health issues aren't choosing to have them, (by and large), and that segment of the population wasn't being addressed with my statement.  Some people do their best to eat in a healthy way and still get sick; this wasn't the point.  The point was made about those who deliberately choose to eat in a mainly unhealthy manner and then end up with subsequent health problems directly related to their choices.

So if I get skin cancer because you think I lay out too much, and I pay for all my treatments, that affects you how?

[SurveyMack10]

if someone chooses to be unhealthy it does not affect you in any way. Also, not everyone who eats at at McDonalds is unhealthy.

Seriously? 'Now, the reason obese people are a burden to society, and the medical industry in paticular, is that they are more susceptible to heart attacks, cancer, and diabetes than people who are not overweight. Over sixty-eight BILLION dollars a year are spent on doctor's fees and missed time at work. They are the third largest segment of the population impacting the total cost of health care.'

I am going to continue to have an intelligent conversation with falconer and opt out of the word games you like to play on every forum- ALSO, if someone wants to spend their money on healthcare instead of dieting that is their free will. Your lifestyle choices do not reflect those of everyone else, and as long as you want that to happen you are going to live a very unsatisfactory life. Great thing about America is that we have freedom. Once again, NOT EVERYONE WHO EATS AT MCDONALDS IS UNHEALTHY.

Your ad hominem aside, I contend that it is your choice to respond or not to forum remarks in the hostile manner envinced by your snide comments.  It's almost as if you were choosing to be irrational ...

Haha your hypocrisy is almost unbearable to read.

[SurveyMack10]

do agree that those extremists are not exemplifying what Christianity is supposed to be about, and they often give the whole group of Christians a bad name. Which is one reason many of us join in these debates to explain that not all Christians are that way. On the same note, I have encountered many atheists- even here on D&D- that dont give atheists a very good name either, and I don't loop them all into one category because of it.

I do agree that my examples of users are furthest from exemplary, but it's extremely uncommon to see anyone in the atheist group needlessly start a thread to highlight beliefs involving an irrational argument that gets everyone frustrated. I imagine 98% of the time the rudeness comes as a response to someones claim. You may lose a bit of respect for me here, but I vaguely recall myself just getting fed up with someone who said I'd burn in hell for eternity if I didn't subscribe to their beliefs-- they were needlessly pompous, pessimistic, and just childish to the point of just cursing me out. In return I called them a *bleep* (to illustrate that my durragatory term and what they said were not that different) and suddenly the entire christian group was just overly horrified that I could say such an awful thing! Nevermind that I was just cursed into oblvion and to be tormented for all eternity-- nobody highlighted that at all. Someone got called a *bleep* for being a *bleep* and therefore I'm the evildoer.  

(Pardon my french btw)

"Kissing Hank's Butt*;
A parable by Rev. Jim Huber

Thanks for sharing. I vaguely recall reading this years ago, but I totally forgot about it. Added to my "debate" bookmarks! lol

This is a sarcastic example of belittling God and Christians

All the author did was take biblical names and replace them with everyday things. Sometimes aligning aspects from a belief system with other things can make someone understand (on either side of the spectrum) what others think of those beliefs.

Well I am not one to sit here and judge you for calling someone a *bleep*, we are all sinners and I cannot say I have never said anything bad about someone or cursed at someone in my life. I agree that damning someone to hell on a forum is not at all the way to go about spreading the Christian word- especially as the Bible clearly tells us that we do not have the authority to judge others. However, I absolutely do not think that ever Christian who starts a thread about Christianity is trying to force their religion on you- many are probably just looking for other Christians to have a religious conversation with- but the same group of people always jump on those threads and insult any believers...This is the part I do not understand- if a Christian posts a Christian thread why can no one leave it be?

[falcon9]

So if I get skin cancer because you think I lay out too much, and I pay for all my treatments, that affects you how?

Your poor decision which resulted in acquiring skin cancer raises the general healthcare costs for everyone else because you aren't likely to pay for all your treatments and instead, are more likely to use either a healthcare plan, (or, "free clinics", which pass the costs on to other patients).  The scenario where you are paying _all_ costs, (not only any deductables or, co-pays), is possible but, dubious.