Do you believe in the afterlife?

[jcribb16]

I'm beginning to see a pattern of what some nonbelievers think about Christians.  Queenofnines, it does appear more and more that you are boxing ALL Christians into one box only without regards to morals, personalities, thoughts, claims, beliefs, etc.  Not every Christian reacts the same to certain ways of others.  There are some who forbid their children to read Harry Potter, this is true.  There are just as many, if not more, that do allow them to read Harry Potter.  Harry Potter can be symbolized by some as good vs. evil, just as in real life.  That, in itself, can be a great family discussion. 

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they go out and THROW it up in people's faces, or go to funerals and do those protests lead by some weird and crazy "preachers" or "leaders."  They are taking judgment in their own hands and that is not what we as Christians are supposed to do.  Ultimately, God is our judge.  "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," says the Lord.  It's people like those weirdos who totally make the genuine Christians look crazy and stupid and pushy, etc. 

I don't push my God on anyone.  If someone asks, I'm glad to share.  If I feel led and it's a right time, then I'll go from there.  You can have conversations with people and never know if they are a Christian or not.  It won't take long, however, for one or the other, or both,  to eventually sense or know where each other stands spiritually/not spiritually.  I'm just saying to please not box Christians in one box - that is judgmental and not looking at individuals for who they are and what they represent. 

[SurveyMack10]

It is so arrogant to sit around and say "all Christians bring up their religion and throw it in everyone's face." 1st of all, you haven't met all Christians. 2nd of all, living a certain way isn't throwing your religion in someone's face. And 3rd, if someone DOES bring up their religion, and does it in the right way, they they aren't throwing it in your face- but are instead just sharing their way of life and faith with others

No, obviously not all of them do this. But a lot of them do and that's what we're talking about.

Something very different then hanging out on a forum all day saying "God is not real,

Perhaps you're not familiar with the usual pattern of events with your claim. Most of the time there is a christian thread that is full of contradictions and naivety (example = end of the world threads), and we just comment and debate such claims mainly asking for proof and showing our proof of why it's wrong.

Seems like the atheists around here are the ones throwing their beliefs or lack thereof in someone's face, so PLEASE try to think about how hypocritical you may sound before you speak.

Count how many atheist threads there are that throw beliefs in peoples faces. Now count how many christian threads there are that do the same thing.

"and we just comment and debate such claims mainly asking for proof and showing our proof of why it's wrong"
When have you ever showed proof that God is not real?

And if a Christian posts a thread about Christianity, they probably want to discuss their religion. If you disagree with it, why not just go on to the next thread and leave them be? You want Christians to leave everyone else to their beliefs, but when you are faced with the choice to pass by a thread where Christians are gathered you always choose to jump in and tell them how wrong they are. Also, if someone posts a thread about their beliefs why is that considered "throwing it in people's face?" This doesn't make sense to me considering when you see that the title of a thread is about Christianity all you have to do is not click it...

[SurveyMack10]

I'm beginning to see a pattern of what some nonbelievers think about Christians.  Queenofnines, it does appear more and more that you are boxing ALL Christians into one box only without regards to morals, personalities, thoughts, claims, beliefs, etc.  Not every Christian reacts the same to certain ways of others.  There are some who forbid their children to read Harry Potter, this is true.  There are just as many, if not more, that do allow them to read Harry Potter.  Harry Potter can be symbolized by some as good vs. evil, just as in real life.  That, in itself, can be a great family discussion. 

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they go out and THROW it up in people's faces, or go to funerals and do those protests lead by some weird and crazy "preachers" or "leaders."  They are taking judgment in their own hands and that is not what we as Christians are supposed to do.  Ultimately, God is our judge.  "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," says the Lord.  It's people like those weirdos who totally make the genuine Christians look crazy and stupid and pushy, etc. 

I don't push my God on anyone.  If someone asks, I'm glad to share.  If I feel led and it's a right time, then I'll go from there.  You can have conversations with people and never know if they are a Christian or not.  It won't take long, however, for one or the other, or both,  to eventually sense or know where each other stands spiritually/not spiritually.  I'm just saying to please not box Christians in one box - that is judgmental and not looking at individuals for who they are and what they represent. 

Great post! This is a lot of what I have been trying to say  but you put it in a much more effective way!!

[Abrupt]

I will try to answer this without a religious position just for sake of clarity.

I have to believe in the afterlife or I would go insane (possibly a few of you may think I already am and maybe that is true).  The reason I say this is based on how I tend to think -- I stretch things out and look at them outward-in from start to end, even before and after.  View your life sometime as a spectator watching your casket being planted within a grave or your urn discarded among some refuse to get a better understanding of what I mean.  As the spectator, who has no memory of the deceased, what relevance are they to you or anything.  In a hundred years, none of those that might have even attended the grave site will be there.  Now such a tale is all too sad for me and I am not a mushy sympathetic type either. 

Perhaps it is my vanity or my weakness but I simply cannot accept such an end to all my struggles and all of my endeavors.  That nothing at all matters in my case means it doesn't matter at all in any and all cases (yes I meant to say that and am quite positive about it).  It would be just as well to not be at all then to be in this fashion.  A shadow, a ghost of a dream, an echo of a distant and accidental sound.  One would be no more than the number zero added infinitely with a simple cry to only be allowed to reach one, yet lacking even the ability to vocalize the utterance of hope or misery.

No, I cannot accept such a fate and therefore I must choose the only choice that allows me to live now and that is a choice that allows me to live in the afterlife as well.

[ghunter]

I guess it depends on what you really mean, there is no life after death.  When you die, you die and go to heaven or hell, so if you mean life after death, no.

[Falconer02]

When have you ever showed proof that God is not real?

Which one? Yours? I can't disprove the existence of any god in the same respect I can't disprove the invisible green fire-breathing dragon in my neighbors basement. I can't disprove irrational beliefs. When you allow for the impossible in an argument, you can literally get away with anything. Disproving any god when talking on realistic terms is quite easy and I've done so plenty of times in the past.

And if a Christian posts a thread about Christianity, they probably want to discuss their religion. If you disagree with it, why not just go on to the next thread and leave them be? You want Christians to leave everyone else to their beliefs, but when you are faced with the choice to pass by a thread where Christians are gathered you always choose to jump in and tell them how wrong they are.

1.) This is debate and discuss. I'm here to debate and discuss.
2.) There's always biased or misinformed ideas presented in these threads and I'm just here to explain either the other side or show what's wrong with their argument. It's fair game here and, with all due respect, I think you're taking it a bit too personally.

Also, if someone posts a thread about their beliefs why is that considered "throwing it in people's face?" This doesn't make sense to me considering when you see that the title of a thread is about Christianity all you have to do is not click it...

Because many of these threads are "I believe this and if you dont, you'll burn for eternity! Sorry!". The religious need to understand that that's not a proper way to introduce the topic of their beliefs and that's a major point we argue for.

[queenofnines]

I have to believe in the afterlife or I would go insane

Would you not similarly go insane never being able to die?  Having to be conscious for all eternity would become painfully boring after a few hundred/thousand years.  Unless you assume heaven will be this endless Disneyland crafted specifically for your deepest desires...which is a really naive way to think, because the Bible speaks very little of what heaven will offer.  So people assume it will be better than death, and fail completely to think about the important issues:

* When I get to heaven and notice quite a few people missing, how will I forget about/cope with all of my loved ones burning in hell?
* How can I realistically expect to be happy for ALL ETERNITY when my brain is wired to get bored with things fairly quickly?  
* How will god prevent people from even THINKING about a sin...will I risk getting kicked out?  My personality will have to be modified BIG TIME to get rid of all the "sinful" parts of me...including many things I enjoy/find central to who I am.

So as you can see, god will have to give everyone routine lobotomies in order for heaven to run smoothly.  There is no other way.  Don't ask me how people get lobotomies without physical brains (because you'll be dead)...it's magic!

I stretch things out and look at them outward-in from start to end, even before and after.

And this is a common problem among people.  We are wired to find purpose/patterns in pretty much everything.  As my husband likes to say, this is how people think (subconsciously): "I put on my shoes so I can protect my feet, which carry me to work, I work to receive a paycheck, so I can feed my family and take care of my home, which provides shelter from the elements.  This cycle keeps refreshing itself each day, until the end when I...die?  What the hell was the point then?!"

Not like heaven really solves this problem, IMO.  What will be the point of existing forever in heaven?  To worship god for all eternity?  Why does god need worship?!

In a hundred years, none of those that might have even attended the grave site will be there.  Now such a tale is all too sad for me and I am not a mushy sympathetic type either.

Yep.  Unless you do something really, really important that changes humanity for the better (or worse), there's a very high likelihood that you will be forgotten soon after you die.  But this is the case for most people.

Being forgotten is not what saddens me in the slightest...what saddens me is that currently, we all only get 70 to 80 years on average of we're lucky, and I would like to live a few hundred years beyond the usual life expectancy, because I like life.  It would be entirely possible for humanity to achieve this IF people could stop wasting their potential away on religious efforts...and this is what makes me sad most of all.

Perhaps it is my vanity or my weakness but I simply cannot accept such an end to all my struggles and all of my endeavors.

How does wishful thinking solve anything, though?  You know what would be better...fill your life with rich experiences so you don't regret what you did with the time you were given when you're old and about to die.  That's what I aim to do.

That nothing at all matters in my case means it doesn't matter at all in any and all cases (yes I meant to say that and am quite positive about it).

You are correct that ultimately, none of what it going on right now matters.  However...the limited time you get to be alive can be quite wonderful; you can create your own "purposes" and goals...and yes, while it will be all for naught in another 100 years, it matters NOW.  Enjoy the ride and try not to worry that the sun will one day engulf the earth...because there's nothing you can do to change this.

No, I cannot accept such a fate and therefore I must choose the only choice that allows me to live now and that is a choice that allows me to live in the afterlife as well.

I don't see how fooling yourself makes things any better.  You still have to finish out this life either way*, and living like you won't get to your "real" life until after you die is not advisable.  This is your one and only guaranteed life, right now.  Why not treat it as such?  You'll be much happier for it.


* Well, technically you don't, but I don't want to go off on a tangent about suicide.

[Abrupt]

Would you not similarly go insane never being able to die?  Having to be conscious for all eternity would become painfully boring after a few hundred/thousand years.  Unless you assume heaven will be this endless Disneyland crafted specifically for your deepest desires...which is a really naive way to think, because the Bible speaks very little of what heaven will offer.  

Remember in my previous post I wasn't speaking from a religious point of view in any way at all and I will try to continue that with my reply.  Regarding boredom though, I am the sort of person who is never bored.  Everything fascinates me but not in the way as a simpleton is fascinated (least I hope not anyways).

How does wishful thinking solve anything, though?  You know what would be better...fill your life with rich experiences so you don't regret what you did with the time you were given when you're old and about to die.  That's what I aim to do.

You are correct that ultimately, none of what it going on right now matters.  However...the limited time you get to be alive can be quite wonderful; you can create your own "purposes" and goals...and yes, while it will be all for naught in another 100 years, it matters NOW.  Enjoy the ride and try not to worry that the sun will one day engulf the earth...because there's nothing you can do to change this.

It isn't about wishful thinking.  I don't delude myself and imagine a "what I want" type scenario.  I accept and approach it as if it is a bargain where the only thing I can control is my end of it.  There are a lot of experiences I might like to indulge in, unfortunately they are mostly illegal though, but that isn't why I don't do them.

If one took the position to "enjoy the ride and try not to worry" then why wouldn't one carry that a little bit further and simply take from this earth every single thing you wanted with no care or regard for anyone or anything.  I have mentioned this in another topic but bring it up again as that is what I would be if I didn't believe in the afterlife.  I know that is how a sociopath would think but if one knew absolutely as true the claims you put forth then the only way to live is as a sociopath.  Any other choice and you are impeding your experience or you would allow yourself to be a slave to emotion instead of an owner of emotion.

I don't see how fooling yourself makes things any better.  You still have to finish out this life either way*, and living like you won't get to your "real" life until after you die is not advisable.  This is your one and only guaranteed life, right now.  Why not treat it as such?  You'll be much happier for it.

It isn't about fooling oneself, but I understand where you are coming from with that.  This is the accepted gamble (again in a non religious point of view or I would apply the word faith).  I generally am a happy individual and one of the sorts that even has a strange fascination with the worst of days one experiences.  I feel 'life' constantly, but especially during the challenging times.  I can't really quite explain it in a way that anyone who doesn't understand where I am coming from would understand.


I must say you do ask the right questions and quite a few of them are questions I myself have asked before but there are also some new ones in there (to me) as well.  I suppose this falls back to the point of view that I am one of those people who is better off in believing (for myself and for those around me).  You mentioned that before regarding some people and I would say that by your imaginations I most definitely qualify.  I think we would at least agree on that, assuming all we have stated is truth.

[jcribb16]

I'm beginning to see a pattern of what some nonbelievers think about Christians.  Queenofnines, it does appear more and more that you are boxing ALL Christians into one box only without regards to morals, personalities, thoughts, claims, beliefs, etc.  Not every Christian reacts the same to certain ways of others.  There are some who forbid their children to read Harry Potter, this is true.  There are just as many, if not more, that do allow them to read Harry Potter.  Harry Potter can be symbolized by some as good vs. evil, just as in real life.  That, in itself, can be a great family discussion. 

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they go out and THROW it up in people's faces, or go to funerals and do those protests lead by some weird and crazy "preachers" or "leaders."  They are taking judgment in their own hands and that is not what we as Christians are supposed to do.  Ultimately, God is our judge.  "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," says the Lord.  It's people like those weirdos who totally make the genuine Christians look crazy and stupid and pushy, etc. 

I don't push my God on anyone.  If someone asks, I'm glad to share.  If I feel led and it's a right time, then I'll go from there.  You can have conversations with people and never know if they are a Christian or not.  It won't take long, however, for one or the other, or both,  to eventually sense or know where each other stands spiritually/not spiritually.  I'm just saying to please not box Christians in one box - that is judgmental and not looking at individuals for who they are and what they represent. 

Great post! This is a lot of what I have been trying to say  but you put it in a much more effective way!!

Thank you.  I still can't seem to say what I'm really wanting to, but the main thing here is that all Christians and sects are not the same and shouldn't be stereotyped, so to speak.  It's great to "see" you again.  I hope school is going well for you!

[mardukblood2009]

No, when you die you die. Everything else on Earth just dies, so why should people be any different.

[queenofnines]

If one took the position to "enjoy the ride and try not to worry" then why wouldn't one carry that a little bit further and simply take from this earth every single thing you wanted with no care or regard for anyone or anything.  I have mentioned this in another topic but bring it up again as that is what I would be if I didn't believe in the afterlife.  I know that is how a sociopath would think but if one knew absolutely as true the claims you put forth then the only way to live is as a sociopath.  Any other choice and you are impeding your experience or you would allow yourself to be a slave to emotion instead of an owner of emotion.

I didn't say there were no limits.  Obviously you can't do EVERYTHING that comes to your mind...because like I said before, if there weren't basic guidelines in place, society would be in chaos.  But that's just one reason not to be completely selfish...I, for one, don't have natural desires to go around "taking every single thing I want with no care or regard for anyone or anything".  And I don't think most people do either, fortunately.  Call it the Golden Rule or whatever, but I also think it runs much deeper than that why it's important not to screw people over.

There's a lot more of a balance to a finite existence (not believing in an afterlife) than you think.  There's a middle ground between being a sociopath like you claim is inevitable, and being a complete sheep to the status quo du jour.  What I mean is, you can be more free in the middle ground to make your own choices than you would be following the cookie cutter guidelines of an average person's life (so long as you don't hurt anyone).  You're not burned by "shoulds" and b.s. expectations as much in the middle ground.  In other words, you can make a life for yourself that's far different than the usual: graduate college, get a respectable career, get a nice car, get a nice house, watch TV in the little free time you have, get married, have kids, go on vacation to the same tired beach year after year, retire, blah blah...

[Abrupt]

I didn't say there were no limits.  Obviously you can't do EVERYTHING that comes to your mind...because like I said before, if there weren't basic guidelines in place, society would be in chaos.  But that's just one reason not to be completely selfish...I, for one, don't have natural desires to go around "taking every single thing I want with no care or regard for anyone or anything".  And I don't think most people do either, fortunately.  Call it the Golden Rule or whatever, but I also think it runs much deeper than that why it's important not to screw people over.

I didn't mean to imply that you meant there were no limits.  That is just the way I would be if I believed the position you put forth.  For me to be any less just wouldn't make sense.  That could come from a gender point of view or even a cultural trait.  I know in many places in the past and even now it is quite acceptable to bash someones skull in and allow your family to participate and call the act 'good' in the eyes of those committing the act.  I actually believe the 'golden rule' tendencies are entirely the result of religious influence and not native to the species at all.  Having freedom from religious devotion should surely be a stepping stone to a freedom from societal obligations as well.  Remember, from the position you put to me, that this is my life and the only life I will have, why would I intentionally worsen my life for these husks around me that don't really exist (If I were to end them they would no longer exist and thus their existence depends entirely upon me).

Let us assume though that the societal structure is so strong as to enforce compliance from me.  Given a choice, I would chose anything over being a slave to society and forced to comply to the will and whims and imaginations and ridiculous and confining rules of a collective.  The failings of all democracies lies in them ultimately turning into an oligarchy, with a few ruling the many and being well aware of that I would not be such a subject.

Again I am not saying that all that don't believe in an afterlife would be sociopaths. I am simply saying that being a sociopath is the optimum way to live such a life with everything else being self deception and conformance to some sort of illusion that is undeniably meaningless and only as real as the fragments of a dream fading from memory.

[workin4alivin]

i do believe in an afterlife, not sure what it looks like, but i believe we come back to finish what the big guy (or gal) has put us on earth to accomplish ...

[SurveyMack10]

When have you ever showed proof that God is not real?

Which one? Yours? I can't disprove the existence of any god in the same respect I can't disprove the invisible green fire-breathing dragon in my neighbors basement. I can't disprove irrational beliefs. When you allow for the impossible in an argument, you can literally get away with anything. Disproving any god when talking on realistic terms is quite easy and I've done so plenty of times in the past.

And if a Christian posts a thread about Christianity, they probably want to discuss their religion. If you disagree with it, why not just go on to the next thread and leave them be? You want Christians to leave everyone else to their beliefs, but when you are faced with the choice to pass by a thread where Christians are gathered you always choose to jump in and tell them how wrong they are.

1.) This is debate and discuss. I'm here to debate and discuss.
2.) There's always biased or misinformed ideas presented in these threads and I'm just here to explain either the other side or show what's wrong with their argument. It's fair game here and, with all due respect, I think you're taking it a bit too personally.

Also, if someone posts a thread about their beliefs why is that considered "throwing it in people's face?" This doesn't make sense to me considering when you see that the title of a thread is about Christianity all you have to do is not click it...

Because many of these threads are "I believe this and if you dont, you'll burn for eternity! Sorry!". The religious need to understand that that's not a proper way to introduce the topic of their beliefs and that's a major point we argue for.

I am not at all taking it too personally, just telling you that it makes no sense to say that Christians are throwing their religion in your face in this forum when you are the one clicking the thread. I am not saying you do not have the right to debate and discuss, but you do not have the right to accuse Christians of throwing their religion in your face when you voluntarily clicked a Christian thread. Also, there is rarely threads titles with extreme titles like the one you referred too, if at all. And usually when there are titles like that they are from marielisa or however you spell it, which hardly counts as a Christian throwing their religion in your face, as sometimes she claims to be a million other religions. Overall, Christians usually post on this thread to talk about their religion, and it ALWAYS turns into a "debate". Lately though it can not really be called a debate because it is just a small group of atheists insulting the intelligence of Christians.

[SurveyMack10]

I'm beginning to see a pattern of what some nonbelievers think about Christians.  Queenofnines, it does appear more and more that you are boxing ALL Christians into one box only without regards to morals, personalities, thoughts, claims, beliefs, etc.  Not every Christian reacts the same to certain ways of others.  There are some who forbid their children to read Harry Potter, this is true.  There are just as many, if not more, that do allow them to read Harry Potter.  Harry Potter can be symbolized by some as good vs. evil, just as in real life.  That, in itself, can be a great family discussion. 

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they go out and THROW it up in people's faces, or go to funerals and do those protests lead by some weird and crazy "preachers" or "leaders."  They are taking judgment in their own hands and that is not what we as Christians are supposed to do.  Ultimately, God is our judge.  "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," says the Lord.  It's people like those weirdos who totally make the genuine Christians look crazy and stupid and pushy, etc. 

I don't push my God on anyone.  If someone asks, I'm glad to share.  If I feel led and it's a right time, then I'll go from there.  You can have conversations with people and never know if they are a Christian or not.  It won't take long, however, for one or the other, or both,  to eventually sense or know where each other stands spiritually/not spiritually.  I'm just saying to please not box Christians in one box - that is judgmental and not looking at individuals for who they are and what they represent. 

Great post! This is a lot of what I have been trying to say  but you put it in a much more effective way!!

Thank you.  I still can't seem to say what I'm really wanting to, but the main thing here is that all Christians and sects are not the same and shouldn't be stereotyped, so to speak.  It's great to "see" you again.  I hope school is going well for you!

I definitely agree with that! No one can group all Christians into one category!! And thanks so much, school is going great, keeping me very busy!