I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

[jcribb16]

So does my rebuttal.

Well your rebuttal fails because I did not saying I was stoic in general.

I know you didn't; I'm referring to you thinking you are stoic to Annella's comments.  I've already clarified this to you once.

[jcribb16]

So does my rebuttal.

Well your rebuttal fails because I did not saying I was stoic in general.

Yes, you are right in that. I am saying you are not being stoic in your reactions to Annella (which is what you indicated), or anyone who contradicts you in this type of thread.

This shows a classic side to your character qon.....keep on arguing with a school teacher.

Annella: Yes, I'm starting to feel I'm in the middle of the "Who's on third?" scenario!  I can't seem to get through to her that she was not being "stoic" to your remarks.  She may be to some people in other type threads, but she cannot be stoic in these religious threads with her sarcastic remarks.  That is not stoic and is exactly what I am commenting to her on.

[Annella]

So does my rebuttal.

Well your rebuttal fails because I did not saying I was stoic in general.

Yes, you are right in that. I am saying you are not being stoic in your reactions to Annella (which is what you indicated), or anyone who contradicts you in this type of thread.

This shows a classic side to your character qon.....keep on arguing with a school teacher.

Annella: Yes, I'm starting to feel I'm in the middle of the "Who's on third?" scenario!  I can't seem to get through to her that she was not being "stoic" to your remarks.  She may be to some people in other type threads, but she cannot be stoic in these religious threads with her sarcastic remarks.  That is not stoic and is exactly what I am commenting to her on.

Who's on third?  LOL  Good one! 

[marvia]

Wow so well I'm a newbie and I'm gonna say something positive about God... QON hi nice to meet you and thanks for the input in advance (according to the post - you'll have something to say  )...  Annella well I am a Christian who believes that my savior is Jesus Christ who died on the cross and rose again and that is ALL that will get you into Heaven (sorry angelhome.... but it sorta sounds like you think you can earn your way? - prepare??  we can't prepare because we are human and will never be perfect thus never deserve to go to heaven... )  I must apologize I have not read ALL the post in this forum (jordandog)... but I skimmed over enough to get the jist of things... and well... I missed the popcorn but that's okay because I prefer kettle corn... and I much enjoy a good debate... especially one that is about my Lord and Savior...

Annella (and anyone else who would like to participate) - I would like you to do an experiment for me...   Find two-three people and have them describe a coin for you (I ususally use a quarter)... Let me know the results...

Jordandog - you sound very educated on the Bible and God but a non believer in the afterlife? Is that correct?  or are you just stirring the pot to push buttons?

Marieelissa - back to your statement I don't believe in the Devil or Hell... So, do you believe in God, angels and Heaven?

I recently joined a Bible study where we are reading the book Radical by David Platt... I encourage any and all of you to read this book so we can discuss... it talks about American Christians forgetting how Jesus says we are to actually live... how we have manipulated the gospel to fit our cultural preferences... it is very interesting and I think could/would spark more debate and conversation...

Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.

Until tommorrow...

Marvia, first of all a warm welcome to FC!  It's a great site to earn cash, try new things, and get to know people in the forum! It's great to have you join in this thread.  It will be interesting to hear what you add in here!  It's always wonderful to meet another new forum friend and a blessing to meet another Christian!!  "See" you soon!  Have a great day!   

Thanks Jcribb for the warm welcome... I have been trying new things... seems that since my kids are grown and already out on their own I don't qualify for most of the survey... oh well...

[marvia]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

So are you a Jehovah's Witness?

[cnoel]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

So are you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

I am not Jehovah Witness, but many have asked me this.  I wonder if it is because they study the bible more in depth then other religiins or jsut because other religions speak so little of the 144 thousand?

[from King james}
Twice in this book, mention is made of a group consisting of 144,000. In chapter 7:1ff John heard of 144,000 (12,000 each from twelve different Israelite tribes) servants of God who had been sealed on their foreheads. They were thus obviously redeemed people. Also, the apostle saw a “great multitude, which no man can number” out of every nation. These too were redeemed individuals who had been made white in the Lamb’s blood (v. 14). They had victoriously triumphed over tribulation, and they served God continuously in his temple. Some feel that these two groups are really the same people —just from different angles.

Again, in Revelation 14:1ff, John saw the Lamb on Mount Zion. With him were 144,000, sealed with the Father’s name upon their foreheads. This great multitude had been “purchased out of the earth,” and they were said to be the “firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.”
{end from king james]

[sflynt]

Thanks, sflynt, lol You are one of the Mean Girls (+Falconer, of course;)) on here now too. I caught that when I was reading through lots of posts after being out of the Forum for weeks.

QON, what a good summation of what I was saying about the "reading into of posts" and "focusing on one minute, derogatory thing" = misplaced feelings. I was stating that only as far as Annella and my posts to each other though since I seem to be able to pretty much get along with everyone else, strange eh?

lol mean girls.. thats funny!


Why is everyone off on definitions and telling people that they DO NOT get along with everyone else? Really? Are we in kindergarten? Jcribb, I think we all need time outs.. what do you think? lol  I'm only teasing. (since you're a teacher, right?)

(Please(everyone) don't take offense to this and try to find some hidden meaning or message in my post. There is no hidden meaning.)

[sflynt]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

If we never doubt god, how do we ever learn/grow? I've found that by taking myself out of the whole religous thing and looking at everything from a nonbiased perspective, I can see things so much clearer. I have so much room to grow and learn. I can see things completely differently than I did before. I can actually see both sides now.
When all the religion did was cloud my mind. Made me get all defensive when someone disagreed with me, when the only reason I got so defensive was because in the back of my mind I knew they were right.
also, it Made me feel guilty for being.... natural. Does that make sense?

I don't agree that god created balance in the universe. (even if I believed in god, I wouldn't agree to that.)

Also your last statement about when lucifer fell from grace, 1/3rd of heaven followed... yeah, that just proves my point that the bad people get to heaven then, when saved of course. (rapists, murderers, molesters/and the like) Why would anyone want to be apart of that?

[mattymatt79]

Right, Sfylnt is a mean girl.

Funny, honestly, I haven't ran into anyone on here that's actually mean. Some people maybe very objected and very hard nosed, but I wouldn't call anyone on here actually mean.

[sflynt]

Right, Sfylnt is a mean girl.

Funny, honestly, I haven't ran into anyone on here that's actually mean. Some people maybe very objected and very hard nosed, but I wouldn't call anyone on here actually mean.

LOL! I agree, I don't think anyone on here is mean either.

Its just how you read the posts. You really can't tell how the person would be saying it, so it can be taken out of context, if you're reading the post with an.. attitude per say..

Can't we all just get along!?! lol

[marvia]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

If we never doubt god, how do we ever learn/grow? I've found that by taking myself out of the whole religous thing and looking at everything from a nonbiased perspective, I can see things so much clearer. I have so much room to grow and learn. I can see things completely differently than I did before. I can actually see both sides now.
When all the religion did was cloud my mind. Made me get all defensive when someone disagreed with me, when the only reason I got so defensive was because in the back of my mind I knew they were right.
also, it Made me feel guilty for being.... natural. Does that make sense?

I don't agree that god created balance in the universe. (even if I believed in god, I wouldn't agree to that.)

Also your last statement about when lucifer fell from grace, 1/3rd of heaven followed... yeah, that just proves my point that the bad people get to heaven then, when saved of course. (rapists, murderers, molesters/and the like) Why would anyone want to be apart of that?

I agree with most of your other post... I do think that when you type it the expression (thus meaning) may not be how it is taken... 

but I don't agree with everything in this post... the 1/3rd that followed where never human... they where angels who decided to follow Lucifer... although you are correct in stating that rapist, murderers, molesters/and the like can go to Heaven...  but only if they sincerely believe in Jesus death and resurrection for their sins...  While I don't understand it or agree with it... it is not for me to decide... That is where faith comes in... I let God make those kinds of decisions... I try to think of as worrying about my own biz...

You point of doubting God... while understandable... I have had times that I questioned or didn't understand why?? but that is the devil trying to come between God and you because the only person who can separate you from God is you...  So, the devil just keeps nagging at you until you walk away from God and then the Devil wins... and 1st off I don't trust that man... 2nd off I don't want to live my life without God... and I dang sure don't want to live in Hell for eternity...

To be natural is human and we will always be human... NO ONE will ever be perfect...  The thing is in God's eyes all our sins are equal... yea that is crazy... to think that my smoking is equal to a child molester... but it is so in God's eyes... While I don't have all the answers (only God does) I can say that he has always been there for me... like no other... I put my trust and faith in him... I seek him with all my heart and beg him to keep me from leaving his way... Yea I feel guilty when I do stay from his commands, but I know that is the Holy Spirit... sorta like when you parents scolded you for breaking the rules... Did they love you any less?  Did they put you out?  I know I know... some people did have parents that put them out... but for the majority it is a good anology of the kind of Love God has for his children... Like I said I don't have all the answers... but I do know that turning my back on God because of some guilt over something I did wrong is not an option for me personally...

[cnoel]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

If we never doubt god, how do we ever learn/grow? I've found that by taking myself out of the whole religous thing and looking at everything from a nonbiased perspective, I can see things so much clearer. I have so much room to grow and learn. I can see things completely differently than I did before. I can actually see both sides now.
When all the religion did was cloud my mind. Made me get all defensive when someone disagreed with me, when the only reason I got so defensive was because in the back of my mind I knew they were right.
also, it Made me feel guilty for being.... natural. Does that make sense?

I don't agree that god created balance in the universe. (even if I believed in god, I wouldn't agree to that.)

Also your last statement about when lucifer fell from grace, 1/3rd of heaven followed... yeah, that just proves my point that the bad people get to heaven then, when saved of course. (rapists, murderers, molesters/and the like) Why would anyone want to be apart of that?

I agree with most of your other post... I do think that when you type it the expression (thus meaning) may not be how it is taken... 

but I don't agree with everything in this post... the 1/3rd that followed where never human... they where angels who decided to follow Lucifer... although you are correct in stating that rapist, murderers, molesters/and the like can go to Heaven...  but only if they sincerely believe in Jesus death and resurrection for their sins...  While I don't understand it or agree with it... it is not for me to decide... That is where faith comes in... I let God make those kinds of decisions... I try to think of as worrying about my own biz...

You point of doubting God... while understandable... I have had times that I questioned or didn't understand why?? but that is the devil trying to come between God and you because the only person who can separate you from God is you...  So, the devil just keeps nagging at you until you walk away from God and then the Devil wins... and 1st off I don't trust that man... 2nd off I don't want to live my life without God... and I dang sure don't want to live in Hell for eternity...

To be natural is human and we will always be human... NO ONE will ever be perfect...  The thing is in God's eyes all our sins are equal... yea that is crazy... to think that my smoking is equal to a child molester... but it is so in God's eyes... While I don't have all the answers (only God does) I can say that he has always been there for me... like no other... I put my trust and faith in him... I seek him with all my heart and beg him to keep me from leaving his way... Yea I feel guilty when I do stay from his commands, but I know that is the Holy Spirit... sorta like when you parents scolded you for breaking the rules... Did they love you any less?  Did they put you out?  I know I know... some people did have parents that put them out... but for the majority it is a good anology of the kind of Love God has for his children... Like I said I don't have all the answers... but I do know that turning my back on God because of some guilt over something I did wrong is not an option for me personally...

All is the right of freewill. To think as we feel born from the influence around us. Just as the Angels fell from grace after Jacob Ladder closed and Lucifer tempted them. They had tasted humankind and wanted to be of flesh and that is what Lucifer offered, but it was not his to give and so they fell to the pit with him and never walked the fields of grass again.

Then again, it is all in what we feel.  And in this  age of man we will be angry because most live with sin and to Love God would be calling the kettle black or tear at our sanity knowing we should not smoke or we should not lie, cheat, and all those other awful things.

I do not believe a rapist or murderer will be saved if his only reason for repentance is to be saved and not because he believes in God's grace and has it in the soul.

[marvia]

Never doubt God - that is what Lucifer wants you to do.
God created balance in the universe
Good and Evil
Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge
The Dove and The Snake
God shall sleep a thousand of HIS YEARS to allow Lucifer to reign over man to prove to Lucifer that at least one shall keep faith in God and if so, then God shall smit Lucifer, if not then mankind shall be forever ruled by Hell
The last day of Lucifer's reign will be when the last of the 144 thousand has entered Heaven.
Remember when Lucifer fell from Grace one third of Heaven followed - that makes for a lot of bad from the get-go

So are you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

I am not Jehovah Witness, but many have asked me this.  I wonder if it is because they study the bible more in depth then other religiins or jsut because other religions speak so little of the 144 thousand?

[from King james}
Twice in this book, mention is made of a group consisting of 144,000. In chapter 7:1ff John heard of 144,000 (12,000 each from twelve different Israelite tribes) servants of God who had been sealed on their foreheads. They were thus obviously redeemed people. Also, the apostle saw a “great multitude, which no man can number” out of every nation. These too were redeemed individuals who had been made white in the Lamb’s blood (v. 14). They had victoriously triumphed over tribulation, and they served God continuously in his temple. Some feel that these two groups are really the same people —just from different angles.

Again, in Revelation 14:1ff, John saw the Lamb on Mount Zion. With him were 144,000, sealed with the Father’s name upon their foreheads. This great multitude had been “purchased out of the earth,” and they were said to be the “firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.”
{end from king james]

Yes I'm sure many have... probably bc JW base the bulk of their religious beliefs on the book of Revelation... so when someone quotes those type of doctrines it is the first thing that comes to mind... I have always struggled with understanding the book of Revelation... and I much prefer the NIV over King James... all the thee and thous... although sometimes I do look stuff up in King James... to get clarification...

I always thought the 144 are the ones that either rise at the first Resurrection (Rev 21) or at the 2nd (I don't really remember why I thought the 2nd resurrection - but I did)... again... I don't really get Rev...   Sorta like in Rev 20:5&6 when the dead don't rise at the first Resurrection... so it makes me wonder... when a Christian dies now does he go to Heaven now?  I mean if the dead don't rise to heaven until the 2nd Resurrection??? but like I said Rev is a very complex book that I just don't really understand... I sorta figure - God gets it and maybe one day if he sees fit I'll get it too...

[mstachitus]

Yes I'm sure many have... probably bc JW base the bulk of their religious beliefs on the book of Revelation... so when someone quotes those type of doctrines it is the first thing that comes to mind... I have always struggled with understanding the book of Revelation... and I much prefer the NIV over King James... all the thee and thous... although sometimes I do look stuff up in King James... to get clarification...

I always thought the 144 are the ones that either rise at the first Resurrection (Rev 21) or at the 2nd (I don't really remember why I thought the 2nd resurrection - but I did)... again... I don't really get Rev...   Sorta like in Rev 20:5&6 when the dead don't rise at the first Resurrection... so it makes me wonder... when a Christian dies now does he go to Heaven now?  I mean if the dead don't rise to heaven until the 2nd Resurrection??? but like I said Rev is a very complex book that I just don't really understand... I sorta figure - God gets it and maybe one day if he sees fit I'll get it too...

Yeah I'm not sure why the whole '144,000 people in heaven' theory exists.  People talk about that number a lot, but they don't think about how Revelations describes them.  They are specifically out of the House of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe.  People claim to be a part of this group, but I'm sure many who claim have no connection with Israel whatsoever.  It never states in the Bible that only 144,000 people will get into heaven, but people choose to interpret it this way.

It's tough for churches that teach this, once they get more than 144,000 members, because then suddenly they have to change their doctrine to include the excess.  Hence the Jehovah's Witnesses indoctrinating a belief in new world of paradise that will be like heaven, but not quite, where people will live who are JWs, but not part of the elect 144,000.  Interesting that these types of doctrines never pop up until after their membership starts asking questions.

[Annella]

Yes I'm sure many have... probably bc JW base the bulk of their religious beliefs on the book of Revelation... so when someone quotes those type of doctrines it is the first thing that comes to mind... I have always struggled with understanding the book of Revelation... and I much prefer the NIV over King James... all the thee and thous... although sometimes I do look stuff up in King James... to get clarification...

I always thought the 144 are the ones that either rise at the first Resurrection (Rev 21) or at the 2nd (I don't really remember why I thought the 2nd resurrection - but I did)... again... I don't really get Rev...   Sorta like in Rev 20:5&6 when the dead don't rise at the first Resurrection... so it makes me wonder... when a Christian dies now does he go to Heaven now?  I mean if the dead don't rise to heaven until the 2nd Resurrection??? but like I said Rev is a very complex book that I just don't really understand... I sorta figure - God gets it and maybe one day if he sees fit I'll get it too...

Yeah I'm not sure why the whole '144,000 people in heaven' theory exists.  People talk about that number a lot, but they don't think about how Revelations describes them.  They are specifically out of the House of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe.  People claim to be a part of this group, but I'm sure many who claim have no connection with Israel whatsoever.  It never states in the Bible that only 144,000 people will get into heaven, but people choose to interpret it this way.

It's tough for churches that teach this, once they get more than 144,000 members, because then suddenly they have to change their doctrine to include the excess.  Hence the Jehovah's Witnesses indoctrinating a belief in new world of paradise that will be like heaven, but not quite, where people will live who are JWs, but not part of the elect 144,000.  Interesting that these types of doctrines never pop up until after their membership starts asking questions.

The 144,000 are Jews, as mstachitus says.  If you keep reading in the same chapter, it tells of a multitude which no man can number.  They who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb.  That is the redeemed (saved).

I haven't forgotten our other discussion mstachistus, I've been in and out today, but think I will have some time tomorrow.  From what I read, there is very little I interpret differently than you do.  We seem to agree on a lot.