I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

[mattymatt79]

Pascal's wager comes to mind here.

Queenofnines, how can you without a shadow of a doubt using real true and fast evidence prove that God does not exist?

If you've risked everything and there is a heaven, you'll have lost everything.
If you've risked everything and there is not a heaven, you've gained nothing.
If you've believed in heaven, and there is a heaven, you've gained everything.
If you've believed in heaven, and there is no heaven, you've lost nothing.

I'll take my chances and believe since people like you continue to think you're correct, yet can't actually prove anything.

[SCarter984]

So if we are not supposed to die, then what happens to heaven and hell?

They disappear into the realms of mythology as so many other belief systems have in the past. It's only a matter of time till today's beliefs are replaced by others or they evolve or adopt into something completely different. Hell, christians today don't even know much about the bible. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of different sects following the same ancient text. Each with their own take on it.
[/quote]

And as time passes so do our ideas and ideals.  I agree.  There are actually more than five hundred different religions and the vast majority of them use the King James Bible version which was handed down from the catholic religion.  Yet they condemn and demonize the catholic religion but live by the King James Bible.  Once again I agree with you.  Most will read the bible for content but not for understanding and most will allow their church leader(s) to tell them how to live their lives.  What I see is that too many people have given up their "free will" (if you will) and have allowed anyone who say's "I am your leader", and like so many sheep, blindly follow.  Religion is for people who are afraid to step out and live their own lives.  They need someone to tell them how to think and act.  And to the subject of this thread "I don't believe in the Devil or Hell", by all means believe in what you wish.  After all you do have "FREE WILL".

[Falconer02]

Not really, it just means that people, not deities, are making all the decisions in this realm.

SAURON FOR PRESIDENT! Very nice post, Kez.

And what star is the brightest or more powerful then the sun?

...omg dood...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Planet-star-sizes-01.jpg

The star "Deneb", for instance, is 60,000 times brighter than our own sun.

God is not a superstitious creation.

The idea of a metaphysical being is semi-superstitious but that's more of a deep philosophical question rather than religious. Since we're talking religious-assertions here, your god was the result of many myths. I think I've already proved that plenty of times with very basic reasonings. But since you adamantly remain ignorant to the massive problems and conundrums that are constantly presented in d+d pertaining to this one specific god, of course you aren't going to acknowlege it. Speaking of which...

I do agree that they influence different cultures.  However, you only took part of my comment and left out what I meant in how God is part of so many aspects of the United States.  Zues and Aphrodite are not on our money, in our court systems, and they or their bibles are not used to swear in officials.  They, and any other god, for example, are not included in the quotes and commentaries, etc. of our founding fathers. God, the Father, and His Word (the Bible) are. Whether or not you want to believe it or choose not to acknowledge it, our moral principles are based on Godly morals and principles.

You really need to get up to date on these things. No offense, but I gotta end the debate here because the argument you present has a completely hollow base. Your argument, at best, is just for promoting inspiration through a specific religion. Not proving a deity's existence.

I'll take my chances and believe since people like you continue to think you're correct, yet can't actually prove anything

I hope you understand you're taking a gamble with an infinite amount of possibilites. Try to understand what your reasonings amount to-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuzFzwbi-Uw

SCarter's post

Cool. Glad another person here can see it for what it grows into.

After all you do have "FREE WILL".

Or so they THINK! But not with the Christian god...mwahahahahaaaa!

[jcribb16]

jcribb16.  I have really enjoyed reading your comments.  It is clear to see that you have the love of God in your heart.  Keep up the remarks.

Thank you very much, constance.  I do love my Lord.  Nothing some of these people say are going to change what I know and believe.  I appreciate your comment! 

[jcribb16]

It proves my point that certain people that hate any idea of God can't stand to see the truth put before them.

It does not prove your point because I don't hate any idea of god.  I hate when my fellow woman runs away with ideas that have absolutely zero real backing. 

Our nation running on beliefs that are ultimately false?  Can you not understand how scary that is?

The beliefs are NOT false.  Think what you want.  You don't have any proof that He really isn't here. You know, you say you don't hate any idea of God.  It sure doesn't come across that way.  It also comes across with some of your hateful comments to others who refuse to let go of God that maybe you just plain do not like them because they won't cave in to what you say we should think.

P.S.  The Bible (God's Word) is one proof that you refuse to accept because it doesn't fit your idea of what proof it should be. 

[jcribb16]

Pascal's wager comes to mind here.

Queenofnines, how can you without a shadow of a doubt using real true and fast evidence prove that God does not exist?

If you've risked everything and there is a heaven, you'll have lost everything.
If you've risked everything and there is not a heaven, you've gained nothing.
If you've believed in heaven, and there is a heaven, you've gained everything.
If you've believed in heaven, and there is no heaven, you've lost nothing.

I'll take my chances and believe since people like you continue to think you're correct, yet can't actually prove anything.

Good point, mattymatt!

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
God is not a superstitious creation.

Quote from Falconer:
The idea of a metaphysical being is semi-superstitious but that's more of a deep philosophical question rather than religious. Since we're talking religious-assertions here, your god was the result of many myths. I think I've already proved that plenty of times with very basic reasonings. But since you adamantly remain ignorant to the massive problems and conundrums that are constantly presented in d+d pertaining to this one specific god, of course you aren't going to acknowlege it. Speaking of which...


Quote from jcribb:
I do agree that they influence different cultures.  However, you only took part of my comment and left out what I meant in how God is part of so many aspects of the United States.  Zues and Aphrodite are not on our money, in our court systems, and they or their bibles are not used to swear in officials.  They, and any other god, for example, are not included in the quotes and commentaries, etc. of our founding fathers. God, the Father, and His Word (the Bible) are. Whether or not you want to believe it or choose not to acknowledge it, our moral principles are based on Godly morals and principles.

Quote from Falconer:
You really need to get up to date on these things. No offense, but I gotta end the debate here because the argument you present has a completely hollow base. Your argument, at best, is just for promoting inspiration through a specific religion. Not proving a deity's existence.

Falconer, is that the best you can come up with for your answer?  Obviously, you are not seeing the deeper picture of what I'm trying to show about this nation and God's moral influence from the beginning. As I mentioned to queenofnines above, God's Word (the Bible) is one proof of God, but you choose to ignore that. The proof you want is for God to show Himself in person. God does not have to do that - that would certainly make it too easy for you to accept Him. Remember "Doubting Thomas" in the Bible?  He wasn't going to believe Jesus rose again until he could see Jesus for himself and see his nail-scarred hands. Faith is the answer in today's world - trusting in what you cannot literally see. But, apparently, this is something you won't be a part of. That's your choice.  At least I feel I have done what I could to present Him to you and others, with other great Christians in here doing the same.  What you do is your choice and your eternity.

[Falconer02]

God's Word (the Bible) is one proof of God, but you choose to ignore that.

I don't ignore it. I've just never seen any proof aside from claims with silly myths as a backbone. Proof plz.

The proof you want is for God to show Himself in person. God does not have to do that - that would certainly make it too easy for you to accept Him.

Seriously, you actually think this? You see no problem with this? I'll just pretend like I do for a moment and say this-

What a joke.

Remember "Doubting Thomas" in the Bible?  He wasn't going to believe Jesus rose again until he could see Jesus for himself and see his nail-scarred hands.

Jesus, as told in the bible, never existed. That much I can prove. And quite easily too. I can also prove that your god has faults. But you'll never listen to reason, so...

But, apparently, this is something you won't be a part of. That's your choice.  At least I feel I have done what I could to present Him to you and others, with other great Christians in here doing the same.  What you do is your choice and your eternity.

Enjoy your fairy tales. Get back to me with some decent proof. Good luck.

The beliefs are NOT false.  Think what you want.  You don't have any proof that He really isn't here.

Ahh religious logic rears it's ugly and silly head once again!  



Remember, it's not our job to disprove the existence of your god. We've got nothing here to prove its existence. And there's plenty of proof that it's a man-made deity, and that's what we see through educating ourselves. You, on the other hand, have nothing except an ancient book full of myths. Again, good luck proving it.

Edit: ...and an infinite amount of appealing to emotions.

You know, you say you don't hate any idea of God.  It sure doesn't come across that way.  It also comes across with some of your hateful comments to others who refuse to let go of God that maybe you just plain do not like them because they won't cave in to what you say we should think.

The reason we speak up, as I've stated dozens of times before, is because you assert it to others as truth, when you have absolutely nothing substantial aside from ancient myths when it comes to proof. As far as "debate-ammunition" goes, that's the equivalent of blanks. You of course have every right to believe what you want, but if you don't have any meat on those frail frail bones of arguments, don't bother debating people who don't live in your mythological fantasy world. I'll requote a user from a few pages back-

"If you live in America, the chances are good that your next door neighbours believe the following: the Inventor of the laws of physics and Programmer of the DNA code decided to enter the uterus of a Jewish virgin, got himself born, then deliberately had himself tortured and executed because he couldn't think of a better way to forgive the theft of an apple, committed at the instigation of a talking snake. As creator of the majestically expanding universe, he not only understands relativistic gravity and quantum mechanics but actually designed them. Yet what he really cares about is "sin," abortiin, how often you go to church, and whether gay people should marry."    

[Twisstedhart]

if you get into all of the conspiracy theories and stuff you might as well believe in the devil and god. most of them like the free masons and such all route back to god and how the government is hiding stuff due to religious reasons.

[jcribb16]

Falconer, you know good and well you can NOT prove there is no God.  If it makes you feel better to think you can, go right ahead. If you want to continue to think of it as a joke, go ahead. All I can say is that what you and some others do and/or say against what Christians believe WILL definitely haunt you later.  I will continue worshipping and praising my God and studying His Word and have peace in my life. You apparently do not accept God's Word as literal, and that's your choice.  But, I will say this, that if you honestly studied the Bible, read prophecies that have happened, are happening, and will happen, and learn about the rich heritage of Bible history, you would have your eyes opened to a lot of things that you refuse to accept.  There again, you ultimately will choose your destiny, as I have chosen mine.  It's your business to cast it aside, but it's a Christian's business to also contradict things you say against God. We may always be opposite in our views.  I really like what mattymatt has to say in a previous post about eternity.

[Annella]

God's Word (the Bible) is one proof of God, but you choose to ignore that.

I don't ignore it. I've just never seen any proof aside from claims with silly myths as a backbone. Proof plz.

The proof you want is for God to show Himself in person. God does not have to do that - that would certainly make it too easy for you to accept Him.

Seriously, you actually think this? You see no problem with this? I'll just pretend like I do for a moment and say this-

What a joke.

Remember "Doubting Thomas" in the Bible?  He wasn't going to believe Jesus rose again until he could see Jesus for himself and see his nail-scarred hands.

Jesus, as told in the bible, never existed. That much I can prove. And quite easily too. I can also prove that your god has faults. But you'll never listen to reason, so...

But, apparently, this is something you won't be a part of. That's your choice.  At least I feel I have done what I could to present Him to you and others, with other great Christians in here doing the same.  What you do is your choice and your eternity.

Enjoy your fairy tales. Get back to me with some decent proof. Good luck.

The beliefs are NOT false.  Think what you want.  You don't have any proof that He really isn't here.

Ahh religious logic rears it's ugly and silly head once again!  



Remember, it's not our job to disprove the existence of your god. We've got nothing here to prove its existence. And there's plenty of proof that it's a man-made deity, and that's what we see through educating ourselves. You, on the other hand, have nothing except an ancient book full of myths. Again, good luck proving it.

You know, you say you don't hate any idea of God.  It sure doesn't come across that way.  It also comes across with some of your hateful comments to others who refuse to let go of God that maybe you just plain do not like them because they won't cave in to what you say we should think.

The reason we speak up, as I've stated dozens of times before, is because you assert it to others as truth, when you have absolutely nothing substantial aside from ancient myths when it comes to proof. As far as "debate-ammunition" goes, that's the equivalent of blanks. You of course have every right to believe what you want, but if you don't have any meat on those frail frail bones of arguments, don't bother debating people who don't live in your mythological fantasy world. I'll requote a user from a few pages back-

"If you live in America, the chances are good that your next door neighbours believe the following: the Inventor of the laws of physics and Programmer of the DNA code decided to enter the uterus of a Jewish virgin, got himself born, then deliberately had himself tortured and executed because he couldn't think of a better way to forgive the theft of an apple, committed at the instigation of a talking snake. As creator of the majestically expanding universe, he not only understands relativistic gravity and quantum mechanics but actually designed them. Yet what he really cares about is "sin," abortiin, how often you go to church, and whether gay people should marry."    

Okay, that's enough Falconer.  It's not our job to prove to you that God exists either.  We are to present the good news, and then it's up to the individual as the recipient of that good news to either accept it or reject it. Debating is one thing, but you are being downright nasty.  Jcribb's postings are as clear and concise as anybody can make them.  Thing is, you want iron clad proof for something that is only obtainable by Faith.  Something you don't have.....and willingly reject.  

Without Faith it is impossible to please God (Bible).  Something we cannot give or prove to you.  It has to be your own choice to take that step of Faith.  No?  Okay....that's your own free will choice.  However, the Just shall live by Faith.

So her debate ammunition is blanks is it?  And since she doesn't have any meat on her frail bones of arguments, then she shouldn't bother debating anyone who isn't a Christian?  That's basically what you said right?  How arrogant can you get, and how dare you talk to her like an idiot, and then top it off with relegating her to a fantasy world?  

[Falconer02]

Falconer, you know good and well you can NOT prove there is no God.

Yeah. That's why I'm agnostic. But your god and your ideals are just one of an infinite amount of possibilities. OMGGGG YOU CAN'T PROVE ME WWWRRRONG!!!

say against what Christians believe WILL definitely haunt you later

I immediately thought of spooky ghosts. But no, they won't. Speaking against christian assertions has made me a better person and more understanding and accepting of other beliefs out there. And it has helped me understand myself better. I've met some very kickass people in the last few years from their discussions on topics like this with me. I've learned a lot from them and myself. If your one deity is against broadening individual horizons and punishing those who are willing to educate themselves, what a narrow-minded nonprogressive low life he truly is.

that if you honestly studied the Bible, read prophecies that have happened, are happening, and will happen, and learn about the rich heritage of Bible history, you would have your eyes opened to a lot of things that you refuse to accept

Ahh memories. You have to remember I used to believe this. But then after some (long) time I realized it was just mythical hogwash. It took many years, but I finally shed myself of that ugly cramped shell. Accepting myths as truth is delusional thinking. And ignorance is bliss. I'm glad I learned to stop that because I learned I'm brave enough to deal with reality.

There again, you ultimately will choose your destiny, as I have chosen mine.

I can choose my destiny. You cannot. Your god is all-knowing and eternal, therefore it has already been chosen for you. Unless your god is imperfect, your freewill is a completely sugar-coated illusion. Mine is up for philosophical debate  

I really like what mattymatt has to say in a previous post about eternity.

I can see your pov, but I don't gamble with magical thinking and mythical places. That's the major difference here.

[Falconer02]

We are to present the good news, and then it's up to the individual as the recipient of that good news to either accept it or reject it. Debating is one thing, but you are being downright nasty.

I find your offensive "good news" rather nasty as well.

Jcribb's postings are as clear and concise as anybody can make them.  Thing is, you want iron clad proof for something that is only obtainable by Faith.  Something you don't have.....and willingly reject.

Yeah. Because your idea of using unseen things and lack of evidence as actual proof for things and having a strong hold on society nowadays is pretty backwards and creepy.

No?  Okay....that's your own free will choice.  However, the Just shall live by Faith.

The christian belief system is fallicious. The christian god, being perfect, has all our destinies already set in stone because of this trait. My beliefs allow for free will. Yours don't.

And since she doesn't have any meat on her frail bones of arguments, then she shouldn't bother debating anyone who isn't a Christian?  That's basically what you said right?  How arrogant can you get, and how dare you talk to her like an idiot, and then top it off with relegating her to a fantasy world?  

Hey, if you can't argue without constantly hitting blunt fallacies and relying on the impossible, don't bother. That's my point. Die-hard christians live in a fantasy world if they keep the myths and ancient quest patterns of the bible on the table during a debate. It's delusional. And don't call me an idiot.

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
Falconer, you know good and well you can NOT prove there is no God.

Quote from Falconer:
Yeah. That's why I'm agnostic. But your god and your ideals are just one of an infinite amount of possibilities. OMGGGG YOU CAN'T PROVE ME WWWRRRONG!!!

You can't prove me wrong either. And there's no need to shout at me - I read your words loud and clear.

Quote from jcribb:
say against what Christians believe WILL definitely haunt you later

Quote from Falconer:
I immediately thought of spooky ghosts. But no, they won't. Speaking against christian assertions has made me a better person and more understanding and accepting of other beliefs out there. And it has helped me understand myself better. I've met some very kickass people in the last few years from their discussions on topics like this with me. I've learned a lot from them and myself. If your one deity is against broadening individual horizons and punishing those who are willing to educate themselves, what a narrow-minded nonprogressive low life he truly is.

First of all, do you really mean a better person or maybe it's really a bitter person it's made you.  That's how it comes through your words.  Second, who in the world said the last sentence??  My God is NOT against broadening individual horizons and punishing those who are willing to educate themselves.  Please don't put words in my mouth - the readers know that's exactly what you are doing.

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
that if you honestly studied the Bible, read prophecies that have happened, are happening, and will happen, and learn about the rich heritage of Bible history, you would have your eyes opened to a lot of things that you refuse to accept

Quote from Falconer:
Ahh memories. You have to remember I used to believe this. But then after some (long) time I realized it was just mythical hogwash. It took many years, but I finally shed myself of that ugly cramped shell. Accepting myths as truth is delusional thinking. And ignorance is bliss. I'm glad I learned to stop that because I learned I'm brave enough to deal with reality.

Well, I think what you did is to mythical hogwash yourself.  Anyone who thinks that God's way is an ugly cramped shell isn't very happy inside of themselves to be so disrespectful in that kind of way to the Lord. God is not myth and to believe in God is NOT delusional thinking. Yes, ignorance is bliss because you don't want to face the reality of God. You aren't dealing as brave as you think except for trying to turn people away from Him. You will have that on your conscience at the end times whether you agree with me or not.

Quote from jcribb:
There again, you ultimately will choose your destiny, as I have chosen mine.

Quote from Falconer:
I can choose my destiny. You cannot. Your god is all-knowing and eternal, therefore it has already been chosen for you. Unless your god is imperfect, your freewill is a completely sugar-coated illusion. Mine is up for philosophical debate 

Wrong. I have chosen my destiny: God.  You have chosen yours: not God.  As far as predestination is concerned, no one knows who will or will not accept Him. We are the ones, as Christians, who present God to them. Only God knows who will and who will not.  Funny thing is, He actually knows (we don't) whether you will continue down the path you have chosen, or whether you will accept Him down the road.