I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

[Falconer02]

Your going on the idea he exercises it all the time.

If he does not, he is imperfect. If you know bad things are going to happen and you could stop it easily, but instead you choose to ignore your foresight, you're either extremely evil or mentally incapable of reasoning. Either way, christians are playing for a dealer with a stacked deck.

Angels couldn't even stand in a court with God if he was always exercising his power if he's ALWAYS all-powerful.

Also the fact that God asks questions alone disproves that he always uses his foresight.

Then this alone proves that your god is not all-powerful and not all-knowing. The attributes discussed here are fallible by basic reasoning.

[ppv2]

Both the Devil and Hell are real.

[c2deryke2]

For all of you who dont understand us atheists, here is a quote for you:) (Please dont be offended!!!)

"If you live in America, the chances are good that your next door neighbours believe the following: the Inventor of the laws of physics and Programmer of the DNA code decided to enter the uterus of a Jewish virgin, got himself born, then deliberately had himself tortured and executed because he couldn't think of a better way to forgive the theft of an apple, committed at the instigation of a talking snake. As creator of the majestically expanding universe, he not only understands relativistic gravity and quantum mechanics but actually designed them. Yet what he really cares about is "sin," abortin, how often you go to church, and whether gay people should marry."--Richard Dawkins, F.R.S, Oxford.

Once again, not trying to be offensive, but if you can divorce yourself from your own emotion and take a purely rational viewpoint, can you at least get where we are coming from?

[dell9031]

Your belief or disbelief in the very existence of someone or someplace does not make a very strong argument.
Many people believe in the tooth fairy.......the very fact the tooth fairy doesn't exist...does not mean those that believe won't get a coin under their pillow the next day......I think those that want to perpetuate the belief in something will do what they must to create that illusion.....perhaps it is us that are our own devil and we create our own hell....

[Falconer02]

I think dell and c2deryke2 deserve medals. I took great interest in both of your posts. And with my history on this forum, that's difficult to do. Thanks.

[c2deryke2]

Your belief or disbelief in the very existence of someone or someplace does not make a very strong argument.

Not trying to make an argument. I dont have to believe that something doesn't exist if there is not proof of it's existence. "Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence." Christians are telling me that all of this about the snake and the apple is true, but have presented not one whit of actual proof. I am just expected to believe this. My point is, why shouldn't I believe in the tooth fairy? It is no more ridiculous than saying a man is living on a cloud, listening to all the words and thoughts of every human. Just saying...

[teflonfanatic]

Your going on the idea he exercises it all the time.

If he does not, he is imperfect. If you know bad things are going to happen and you could stop it easily, but instead you choose to ignore your foresight, you're either extremely evil or mentally incapable of reasoning. Either way, christians are playing for a dealer with a stacked deck.

Angels couldn't even stand in a court with God if he was always exercising his power if he's ALWAYS all-powerful.

Also the fact that God asks questions alone disproves that he always uses his foresight.

Then this alone proves that your god is not all-powerful and not all-knowing. The attributes discussed here are fallible by basic reasoning.

The sun is the most powerful star in the universe is it always shining? Is it still the most powerful star in the universe when it's not shining. I personally believe the all titles means he's the most high in those areas. For example Almighty means he's the mightiest of the mighty.

[teflonfanatic]

Your going on the idea he exercises it all the time.

If he does not, he is imperfect. If you know bad things are going to happen and you could stop it easily, but instead you choose to ignore your foresight, you're either extremely evil or mentally incapable of reasoning. Either way, christians are playing for a dealer with a stacked deck.

Angels couldn't even stand in a court with God if he was always exercising his power if he's ALWAYS all-powerful.

Also the fact that God asks questions alone disproves that he always uses his foresight.

Then this alone proves that your god is not all-powerful and not all-knowing. The attributes discussed here are fallible by basic reasoning.

The sun is the most powerful star in the universe is it always shining? Is it still the most powerful star in the universe when it's not shining. I personally believe the all titles means he's the most high in those areas. For example Almighty means he's the mightiest of the mighty.

Which sun are you speaking of? The one in the Milky way galaxy? The sun also never stops shining, but it will blow up and become a white dwarf star and will still shine, just very faint.

I was referring to shining on our planet.

[Falconer02]

The sun is the most powerful star in the universe is it always shining? Is it still the most powerful star in the universe when it's not shining. I personally believe the all titles means he's the most high in those areas. For example Almighty means he's the mightiest of the mighty.

You're beating around the bush of my point. Don't blur it with odd metaphors.

[amyrouse]

The sun is the most powerful star in the universe is it always shining? Is it still the most powerful star in the universe when it's not shining. I personally believe the all titles means he's the most high in those areas. For example Almighty means he's the mightiest of the mighty.

You're beating around the bush of my point. Don't blur it with odd metaphors.

Might make it a better metaphor if the sun really was the most powerful star in the universe.   

[jcribb16]

For those people who constantly contradict that our God and His Word (Bible) aren't real, think about this. Have you ever thought that if there is no God and no Bible, then why is so much of our country's buildings, monuments, courts, etc. based on that very God you deny?  There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc. I know a lot of people don't agree with all of this and want to change it or take it out.  But the fact is, it is there, and yet people still argue about no God.

[c2deryke2]

For those people who constantly contradict that our God and His Word (Bible) aren't real, think about this. Have you ever thought that if there is no God and no Bible, then why is so much of our country's buildings, monuments, courts, etc. based on that very God you deny?  There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc. I know a lot of people don't agree with all of this and want to change it or take it out.  But the fact is, it is there, and yet people still argue about no God.

So this is supposed to be proof of a God? This proves that a God exists, that Jesus is the savior, and that the bible is the truth? Because men choose to believe it, just like men choose to believe that female circumcision, genocide, and other henous crimes are ok?

Belief is not enough. Just because someone chose to repeat a falacy doesn't make it any more correct. Oh, and btw, the "In God We Trust" you refer to was added in the 1950s. If we want to know what the US was founded on, let's look at the founding fathers

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.  This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." -Thomas Jefferson

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there  were no religion in it." -John Adams

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."-Benjamin Fraklin

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -Thomas Payne

...Just to name a few...

[jcribb16]

c2deryke2:  Exactly my point.  People still deny God even though it's intermingled within many aspects of the United States.  You just proved my point.

[jcribb16]

c2deryke2:  Now, I would like to address your quotes, starting with the one:
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there  were no religion in it." -John Adams
Quotes are great words for us to heed when it comes from our founding fathers.  However, the whole quote needs to be included as to reveal the whole thought of what these people were trying to get across:

"Those hoping to prove the irreligiousness of the Founders have no trouble finding ammunition from Adams. The liberal magazine The Nation and the website www.deism.org both homed in on this comment from Adams: 'Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.' But in typical culture-war behavior, neither the Nation or deism.org included the rest of the quote, in which Adams explained that the negative sentiment soon passed and was replaced by his realization 'Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean Hell.'"
(Founding Faith: Providence, Politics, and the Birth of Religious Freedom in America by Waldman)

[jcribb16]

In regards to this quote:
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.  This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." -Thomas Jefferson

Here is another quote related to what he was referring to in the above quote:
"Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." – Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, (1815. ME 14:283)

To put it in today's language, it was Jefferson's conviction that by nature, people are depraved, immoral and lacking self-control. He therefore believed that the only way that the American style of government could be maintained was to instruct everyone in right and wrong from birth, and train them toward good habits and virtue through disciplinary consequences. Political self-government, he said, requires that citizens be raised to despise dishonesty and embrace personal integrity through instruction and repeated admonitions. Religion and reason, he said, form the basis for our nation's foundations. Thomas Jefferson and the other founders built our nation upon Christian principles and ethics, and warned that America would morally disintegrate if it forsook its "religious" roots. Although such a foundation could not make our nation "Christian," we would be wise to listen to our predecessors and embrace our Creator and the Bible that communicates how to walk in morality and virtue.
SOURCE: America has never been a Christian nation