Emergency Numbers

[ULuvCeCe]

@charmaine56 and tuyetmai you are very welcome, I hope you have a Happy CHRISTmas! 

[Falconer02]

If you think the bible is a fairytale that is fine.

I'd say your bible is more mythology than fairy tale.

You'll meet your maker one day and until then may God bless your (and Falconer's) soul

Thank you. I anxiously await my death so I may hang out with all of the gods one by one and see who's the coolest and who has the best deals. That should take a lot of time seeing how there are millions! Customer satisfaction does not seem to be your gods policy, but I'll take a note of this post and hang out with yours, grab a drink, and let him know you're an okay person! Awww yeahhhh

[jcribb16]

 
ULuvCeCe:  Thanks for sharing that.  Apparently whoever wrote it has delved deep into the Bible and gained comfort or answers from whatever he/she has experienced.  I notice that the majority of the responses in here support your post.  I don't worry about the other couple of responders and what they have to say, except for their own personal soul/choice, which they have already made pretty clear their choice.  I hope you have a Merry Christmas! 

[Falconer02]

I don't worry about the other couple of responders and what they have to say, except for their own personal soul/choice, which they have already made pretty clear their choice.

I dunno...it wasn't really a choice when we sat down and educated ourselves and found out it was just old myth and borrowed stories from other cultures (yes, it really is.). It's like believing in Santa Clause- once you rationally figure out he cannot exist, it's ridiculous to "make the choice" of still believing in him and the magic he performs. Any reasonable person won't be able to do it. And saying it was our choice to educate ourselves is more of a compliment than an argumentative attack. But satan works in mysterious deceitiful ways, doesn't he?  

And posting these types of threads in D+D, folding your arms, and not expecting to get in an argument is a poor choice anyway. Off-Topic ftw. Take yo holy jibba-jabba elsewhere!

Where is this soul you speak of?

Well philosophically we cannot assert anything, but when you allow for the impossible/irrational/delusional in reasoning, anything is possible and can be real to the individual. But obviously you've known that for some time as I have.

I hope you have a Merry Christmas

And a happy (originally pagan) christmas holiday to you too!
(lololol I'm just playin')

[ULuvCeCe]

And posting these types of threads in D+D, folding your arms, and not expecting to get in an argument is a poor choice anyway. Off-Topic ftw.

For the record it is posted in D&D because it is  "A place to have political, religious, and other divisive discussions."

I get so annoyed when people post in the wrong threads and had I posted it in off-topic I'm sure you and others would have continued w/your opinions anyway so here is how it came to be

@marieelissa and jgribb thanks!

[Falconer02]

For the record it is posted in D&D because it is  "A place to have political, religious, and other divisive discussions."

Debate and Discuss. "Enter at your own risk!"

I get so annoyed when people post in the wrong threads and had I posted it in off-topic I'm sure you and others would have continued w/your opinions anyway so here is how it came to be

Us freethinkers don't hang out in Off-Topic much, so this wouldn't be the case. We had D+D made for this very reason-- too many la-dee-da threads like this one with the major argumentative ones.

Even in the typical childhood fairytales the wicked eventually have to face justice (sometimes their demise) before the "good" can live "happily ever after"...

But it's still fiction.

WAUGH

[Falconer02]

I think the difference is non-believers are hoping when they reach the end of their final chapter that is reads "THE END"

Nope. We're just not ones to blurt out how we think the movie's going to end and what is supposed to happen. We don't ruin it for the rest of the audience that is watching the movie. It's rude to assert the end of the film when you yourself don't even know it (you just think you do!). It's better to let the individuals come to their own conclusions before the movie ends than to tell them what you think you know will happen and guilt trip the naive.

Because Jesus SAID so.  Either He was what He said He was...or He was the greatest fraud to ever live.

I believe seeing how most of his story-qualities come from other stories that existed before this apparent protagonist, and that there are decade-long gaps during his life and after his death where barely anything was written, and that when they actually started writing stuff about him it was full of inconsistencies, it's easy to conclude that if he even did exist, the people who wrote that stuff in (he's a god/son of a god, performs magic/miracles, etc.) changed him into a fraud to make him a more powerful martyr.

Considering the average human lies a minimum of four times a day

Not all lies are bad though! But this is a philosophical conundrum and if we're going to be talking religious black+whites here, I dunno if we should go into it.

Noone could find any fault with Him---has anyone EVER known anyone that they couldn't find any fault with?  Really?

Here's one- it's fiction.

Noone has changed as many people's lives as Jesus has.  STILL TODAY, NOONE changes lives like Jesus can!

Norman Borlaug, Edward Jenner, Joseph Lister, Louis Pasteur are all > Jesus. Jesus just gives off an emotional high that is hard to give up because it makes you feel good. Maybe christians should dive a little deeper into their beliefs and see how many people murdered others in the name of them.

[queenofnines]

 
Even in the typical childhood fairytales the wicked eventually have to face justice (sometimes their demise) before the "good" can live "happily ever after"...

You think me and Falc are wicked?  Really?  Just for knowing things that you don't when it comes to that dogma of yours?

Christians sure are self-righteous...if you could only take a step back and get your head out of the imaginary heaven clouds you'd realize how horrible it is to promote this concept that YOU deserve a reward while I deserve to be burned FOREVER.  Thankfully I know there is not an ounce of truth to these ridiculous threats, but the scary thing is, YOU think they are reality!

How frightening that your mind most remain in a delusional state in order to believe in god.

[Falconer02]

You're talking movies?  I thought we were discussing books (fairytales, the Bible & such...).  I know how the book ends...you do too, whether you've read it or not.  

My point was you assert irrational things and it annoys everyone who does not believe what you do. Either way, blurting out what you think will happen at the end of a book or movie is ultimately rude. Yeah, we die. But you assert that it's happily ever after. For the free-thinkers, I suppose it's more "To be continued?".

NOBODY dies deaths like that for a fraud

Suicide bombers?
Jim Jones' followers?
Jesu--oh wait.

Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities----Truth isn't.

But, like I said, the truth of the matter is your protagonist resides on manipulations of other tales that happened before him. His story is fictitious, and the truth is it's from other tales.

Yes. let's.  All the more easier for someone that knew Jesus to catch Him in a fib!!

Hmmmm...okay I'm just curious to what your answer would be in this situation. Let's say you're a cop and you get a call in to check out some drunk man that's getting violent in a bar. You get there and you take him outside after he started a dangerous brawl and he starts getting pushy and punches you. You handcuff him and just when you're about to read him his rights, he goes nuts and starts attacking again. You subdue him and take him to prison.

Now during his court date, you find out he has a really well-credited lawyer and that any loophole will for certain get the majority of the charges dropped. You also find out that this man is a bit unstable and will probably end up doing something similar (if not something worse) again in the future. The judge asks you "Did you read him his rights?". Do you lie knowing that this is perfect punishment for this man and you did a good deed keeping him off of the streets for the protection of many others, or do you tell the truth and, through his lawyer, he ultimately abuses the system and is let loose again?

so how does what I wrote above apply to you & Falc?

Unless I'm mistaken, a while back you were beating around the bush of saying "They will end up in hell" because of our 'choices'. It's primitive cursing and is still offensive even if you hint at it. I know when we say the stories in your bible can be compared to fairy tales it is a bit rude, but we didn't make this thread promoting christian myth. No matter what other way you look at it aside from the christian bubble, that's what they are.

[jcribb16]

   Way to go, marie!
Sheryl, you have really made some great points in this thread. They are well thought out and to the point.

Merry Christmas!! 

[Falconer02]

Fairytales offer a  "to be continued" option?  I never knew that.

I think we're getting too splattered with this example. We don't believe that fairy tales happened. You made the example of us thinking it's "happily ever after" with you and it's "THE END" with us. I'm just floating around in your example and trying to correct what needs to be for it to make sense to both parties.

Suicide Bombers & Jim Jones followers died slow, agonizing deaths similiar to the apostles' deaths?

My point was that people are willing to die for frauds even if it is painful.

No beating around the bush, the Bible states people will be judged, justice will prevail and if people don't have Jesus in their lives before they die---Jesus makes no provision for them to be with Him in an afterlife. (Doesn't common sense there say why should he?)

This is evil though. And your beliefs promote this! It's rude to say everyone who does not have your protagonist in their lives will suffer. Unless you're making room for every other concept of an afterlife from the other various belief systems?
"Jesus saves! And redeems at your local superstore for cash value! You don't like my brand? Well ta hell with ya! Go get some other brand then!"

Apologies for any non-intended primitive cursing and offensiveness but like I said before, you KNOW what the book says and how it ends without me saying a word

lol I think all of the freethinkers are getting used to it nowadays so don't think we're deeply and dramatically offended by it. It just gets annoying to constantly hear it. Especially outside of this forum.

I say a word or two because to do otherwise is to hand satan your soul on a silver platter.

But we don't believe in Hades, Ament, Chu Jung, Duolai, Baron Samedi, etc. and especially the good ol' local Satan. I've got a lot of underworld antagonists to sort through here!

but if you know what the thread is about and you know you are going to find it offensive then why show up...to get offended?

Because we don't really have a melting pot of beliefs in this forum. It gets kind of annoying to see a dozen christian threads before one actual philosophical one with different POV's being opened (I think we know of a certain someone who's to blame for most of it...). So yeah, I admit I was kinda trolling the thread originally just to joke around. Why? The OP was pretty corny.  

It's been a year since I first "found" you guys on FC...looking forward to another year "d&d-ing" with ya!!    

And have a lovely and merry Christmas yourself! Have a good one with your family and dogs!!! It's snowing here. Aww yyyeeaahhh

[ULuvCeCe]

Wow, this thread sure has grown! I am only able to skim right not but some very great points and arguments. I do hope that everyone has a great christmas, be safe! 

[Falconer02]

ONLY because it had been repeatedly stated in other posts (by qon, I'm not sure if also posted by you) that once one is dead, they are dead...so "end of story".  Believers believe in everlasting life...in Heaven with Jesus (aka "living happily ever after").  I wasn't trying to antagonize anyone, I was just using what had already been said in previous threads as an example USING what BOTH sides had posted that they believed

Ah.

Peter walked on the water with Him.  And NOONE could find any fault with Him?

Yep. This story and all its characters are, without any skepticism needed, completely legit!  I have difficulty grasping why people say stuff like this can happen and then hold it without question. Look at what you typed here. It's fantasy. If I asserted that Muhummad went to heaven on a flying horse and was up there for years, or that Jesus touched a fragment of a UFO to gain his powers (scientology!), you'd understand how I feel right now.

you wouldn't pursue legal action because justice is "evil"?  You don't think people should have to be accountable at all for their actions?

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
-Epicurus

I would pursue it because I can actually see and interact with the legal action. I can bring strong and conventional proof to anyone who needs to know this. I can display different sides. No religious faith, cheap magic, ancient questionable texts, or would-be miracles are needed to justify anything in the actions.

He's a fair God

I'll leave this one for QoN if she wants because this deity is furthest from fair.

1.) this thread was started by posting various verses from the Bible---making this obviously a Bible-based thread

And that's why I came in! Mwahahaha!

2.) Our Bible tells we are serving the ONE and ONLY God.  No other "religions" makes room for every other concept of an afterlife from other various belief systems so why should Christianity have to?

You make a decent point, but since I'm stricken with the free-thinking disease that gives me the perk of acknowledging everything, I must say that there's more than 1 god in the eyes of the world.

As far as "making room for other belief systems" goes with christianity, many of your beliefs come from other previous/various other belief systems. Even christmas having pagan roots is an example of that.

don't believe in winter, yet it always arrives.  You might say that is a poor example since common sense says of course winter arrives---however, I still don't believe in it.

I don't think this example works very well because you're mixing conventional logic with religious logic. I can show you proof of winter. I can show you how the worlds weather works and why it comes each year. I can show you physical evidence. You can see, touch, breathe in, and taste the snow. You can even develop systems to acknowledge and deal with it like snow plowing or salting. But with religion...ehh...I'm sure you've seen this one before-

Then they just quit posting in D&D altogether.  I agree it would be great to have many more others in D&D, I'm just not sure how to help that happen

*sigh* I miss Liljp and Walksalone  

[Falconer02]

They got witnesses for the above?

As far as Muhummad goes, I'm certain any ancient witnesses to this account rival your own ancient witnesses. Unfortunately I do not have a backed up answer because I'm not as well versed in islams history (I'm n' uh-merr-ikayn!), but considering the masses of christians and muslims out there, I'm sure I'd get the same treatment if you were a muslim talking about jesus' legitimacy.

As far as scientology goes- I honestly hate scientology so I'm just going to end it here with that crooked business.

As far as aliens go, yes. People from different places claim to have seen the exact same things as others they have never talked to before. But bah humbug! Those people are nutjobs, aren't they?

A written historical account?

Muhummad = Quran.
Aliens = N/A

I found a site that has a little info on it that looks similiar to some of the things I was taught in high school

"Campus Crusade for Christ"? Hot dog! Where do I sign up?

[queenofnines]

 Just to clarify:  

"You made the example of us thinking it's "happily ever after" with you and it's "THE END" with us".  

ONLY because it had been repeatedly stated in other posts (by qon, I'm not sure if also posted by you) that once one is dead, they are dead...so "end of story".

And that is the difference between an atheist (me) and an agnostic (Falconer).  I don't leave room for unprovable possibilities that sound like pure fantasy (no offense, Falc).  I go with the facts: all evidence points to the very big fact that I was dead for billions of years before I was born.  Why?  I didn't have a brain that made me conscious.  When I die, my brain will stop working and decompose.  Thus, I will have nothing to be conscious with. 

Why the hell would I think that I magically get an immortal soul during the biological process of my mom's pregnancy, so that when I die, I won't actually be dead like I was before I was born?  There is no evidence of this except for a Bronze Era book written by primitive ancestors that says god knitted me in my mother's womb and that god knew me before I was born, but erased my memory and sent me to earth as a test that apparently I'm failing because I'm on the track to hell by Christianity's standards.  Does this sound nuts to anyone else?!  We don't take those goat herders' word when it comes to science, medicine, technology, ANYTHING else...but we trust that an omnipotent being revealed the secrets of the universe to people who didn't even know what electricity was?!

Believers believe in everlasting life...in Heaven with Jesus (aka "living happily ever after").

No, most of you don't actually believe in it...you just HOPE for it.  If you really believed in it, you would not exercise regularly, watch your weight, take vitamins, seek medical attention ASAP during an emergency, get insurance policies, grieve over dead loved ones, do ANYTHING to prolong this crappy human life...

The Muslims of 9/11?  They BELIEVED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaK6k4oZ20