Another god-related topic

[502mania]

Marie, i'm trying to get at answers, the are lots of religious people here, i thought you guys could help.

[502mania]

you know what is funny, is I can see the devil in these words...he is so predictable (the devil that is)

what words? the words of the bible?

[Annella]

for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?

I'm going to address this as simple as I can.  The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace".  We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law.

But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.

Can I ask what the hell you are getting at?

for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?

I'm going to address this as simple as I can.  The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace".  We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law.

But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.

Your taking the scripture out of context instead of the "whole".  Are you reading my answering posts at all?  In the Old Testament, the Lawgiver was God.  There was NO Savior or remission of sins.  Law and Judgement were ON EARTH.  Read my last post on the dispensation of Grace TODAY.

Now....I was going to address the women speaking in church....do you want me to answer that question or do you want to still shoot out questions like bullets without giving me a chance to answer them?

Here's a question....do you even believe the Bible?  If not, why should I give you any Biblical answers out of the WORD to which your referring?

[502mania]

I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?

[Annella]

I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?

Did you read my post before or not?  doesn't sound like you did, or you wouldn't be asking how your taking scripture out of context.  Your talking OT ONLY.....get it?

If you don't believe the Bible, why should I give you chapter and verse to give answers to your questions?  Also, your asking separate questions found in different testaments.  Also, you called God a hypocrite which I take great offense to.  If you really want to know something, I'll be happy to tell you, but not to idle disputations. I've already answered one of your questions.  

[Annella]

I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?

Maybe because you need to read the entire book...from start to finish. Not just pick out parts of it.

It would go something like this if you did...

In the beginning, I am the alpha omega, amen.

Thank you Marie.  How do you get the "location" from everyone on FC?  Kinda cool how your doing it.

[Annella]

I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?

Maybe because you need to read the entire book...from start to finish. Not just pick out parts of it.

It would go something like this if you did...

In the beginning, I am the alpha omega, amen.

Thank you Marie.  How do you get the "location" from everyone on FC?  Kinda cool how your doing it.

http://revolvermaps.com/

HaHa  Fooled you sweetie!  My laptop may be connected to the IP of where I live, but not where I am right now! Try to find me now.  Just having fun with ya sugar!  I'll be there by Tuesday, then you'll be right.

You are so smart with the computer girl!

[502mania]

I never called god a hypocrite. i said IF he says not to kill but says you SHOULD kill people who do not follow his word, that's hypocritical.

[amyrouse]

I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?

Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me.  We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love?  I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them   ).  That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return.  My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation.  Why isn't that enough?

I'm done babbling now...  

I don't know where you got the Apostle Paul had no place in Heaven.  He said "I've fought the good fight, and there is a crown laid up for me".  

We choose to love God, not for a reward.  I myself could care less about the mansions, etc.  I want to see the one who died for me that I might have life.  That's why I love HIM, because he died for me, and is as real to me everyday as my own family and friends.  I love HIM more everyday.  It's a personal relationship with God, not a passing hi or bye on Sunday because I'm scared of hell, or there is a reward. 

Like I said, I may be wrong.  I probably misheard or remembered it incorrectly...but someone once told me that Paul, before he was Paul, was Saul and he actually talked all kinds of crap (sorry for the vernacular...but I'm remembering something from my teenage years), but when he met or conversed with Jesus he realized he was wrong, and felt that he had no place in heaven because of it...but all throughout the rest of his days he was in some kind of imprisonment and wrote letters about the glory of Jesus...see...I'm probably butchering this because its Christian scripture and not something in my normal daily study... (I wish there was a blushing emoticon up there...LOL) 

[Annella]

I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?

Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me.  We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love?  I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them   ).  That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return.  My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation.  Why isn't that enough?

I'm done babbling now...  

I don't know where you got the Apostle Paul had no place in Heaven.  He said "I've fought the good fight, and there is a crown laid up for me".  

We choose to love God, not for a reward.  I myself could care less about the mansions, etc.  I want to see the one who died for me that I might have life.  That's why I love HIM, because he died for me, and is as real to me everyday as my own family and friends.  I love HIM more everyday.  It's a personal relationship with God, not a passing hi or bye on Sunday because I'm scared of hell, or there is a reward.  

Like I said, I may be wrong.  I probably misheard or remembered it incorrectly...but someone once told me that Paul, before he was Paul, was Saul and he actually talked all kinds of crap (sorry for the vernacular...but I'm remembering something from my teenage years), but when he met or conversed with Jesus he realized he was wrong, and felt that he had no place in heaven because of it...but all throughout the rest of his days he was in some kind of imprisonment and wrote letters about the glory of Jesus...see...I'm probably butchering this because its Christian scripture and not something in my normal daily study... (I wish there was a blushing emoticon up there...LOL)  

Uh yeah, you got it mixed up.  He was imprisoned and wrote Epistles to the churches that were formed (in NT), AFTER he traveled preaching and teaching.  Apostle Paul traveled all over founding churches before he was put in prison.  

How it started was he was blinded on the road to Damascus, with a light from Heaven, and Jesus revealed himself to him, and told him he was persecuting the Christians wrongfully.  He realized that Jesus was the Messiah.  He had before put the new Christians to death thinking he was doing God's work as a Jew.  Because Jews don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.....as you know.

However, he said in prison when his death was at hand:

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith:  Henceforth, there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the LORD, the Righteous Judge, shall give me at that day:  And not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing.  II Timothy 4:7-8

Not exactly words from a man with nothing to look forward to.  It doesn't matter what Apostle Paul did before his conversion, because his sins were remitted, and under the blood of Jesus, he was forgiven.

However, it is in the NT. which I know you don't believe, but it's where you were referring.

[502mania]

so, anella, i'm taking the killing out of context? or the slavery?

[Annella]

so, anella, i'm taking the killing out of context? or the slavery?

I answered this earlier (killing) in 2 previous posts....GO READ THEM!!!  You may not be understanding it because you don't understand Salvation, and what it actually wipes out or atones for, and it's absence in the Old Testament.  We are in the "Grace" period, not the LAW as those in the OLD Testament.  Is the Law done away with?  No, it is handled differently in the dispensation we are living in (GRACE).  God will still judge everyone on the Day of Judgement.  Take note:  The Bible is the Law we will be judged on, but we can escape it by opting for Salvation (now....Grace).  Things changed when Jesus died on the cross.  This is the pivotal point.

Slaves were mostly taken from other races of people that were conquered in battle.  Sometimes, it was just a lucrative occupation for someone to "hire" themselves out to someone as a slave to keep from starving.  Slaves were a way of life back then.  Back then, slaves were part of the inheritance that were passed from generation to generation.  It was forbidden to make slaves of your own race.  Most slaves came from tribes of idol worshippers who were not put to death after a war.  There were laws regarding the treatment of slaves.  Some Jews would have children by their slaves, and sometimes share in the inheritance and blessing as heirs.  In some third world countries, slavery still goes on.  We no longer own human beings as property (NT).  Again, after Jesus came, a lot of this was changed how people were treated called slaves.  Also, plural marriages were discounted by the LORD also.  It was the hardness of man's heart a lot of what was implemented in the Old Testament, and had nothing to do with God implementing it.

Today, we do not buy or sell slaves, but we still hire other people to do other jobs for us.  Childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc.  What is the difference?  We don't OWN them.  There are Filipinos and other races that hire themselves out all over the world as domestic workers.  They live with the family and perform "services" for the families that hired them.  They get paid a wage, but they are actually hired workers.

You have to take both the Old and New Testaments, and remember that the Old was "types and shadows", and fulfilling in the NEW.  While our living situations have changed, the Law has not.  It just has been dealt with differently than in the Old Testament when there was no Judgement but God ON EARTH.  The killing of offenders was Judged by GOD.  Even in the Old Testament, if someone killed someone randomly, it was displeasing to God, and judged accordingly.

That's about as far as I can go into this.  I could write reams and reams about why and wherefore, but this will give you a good idea.

[queenofnines]

We all go through trial and tests in this world (It rains on the Just and unjust the same).

"It rains on the just and the unjust the same"...hmm...kinda like it would if there was no god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m12mZiiaWuw

It was Truth, and to the point.

If you only knew how ironic it is for you to claim ownership of the word "truth" (with a capital T!)...

[queenofnines]

I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.

jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME.  It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place.  Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)

Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument.  So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof.  YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS.  There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.

[queenofnines]

for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?

Get ready for the excuses!!:

...THAT WAS THE OLD TESTAMENT!  Even though the Ten Commandments are in there, and much of the gay stuff, and I thought god doesn't change, and oh...Jesus said in the NT that he WASN'T there to take away ANY of the law.  So any Christian who uses this excuse is a hypocrite!
...PSH, CONTEXT!  Like somehow it's okay for daughters to rape their dad, slaves to be beaten, god/man to murder people...as long as you read it in the right CONTEXT!!!
...THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS!  You've just got to read it like, a whole.  So when the different gospels effed up the date on which Jesus was resurrected, etc...just come up with a slick excuse and say that the different accounts are in harmony!  And when in doubt, go with the one that jives with what's societally accepted today!