The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers

[queenofnines]

What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.

I'd much rather have people think this way than exclaim, "You were never a true Christian!!!"  I was also a vegetarian for 3.5 years and now I'm not; does that mean I was never a true vegetarian??

you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.

[jordandog]

To jordondog:  We've been over this Islam/Muslim conversation over and over.  I've studied it...you've studied it. We come out with 2 different opinions.....so what?  No 2 people agree on everything in the world.  You and I disagree on just about 99.99% of just about everything written on this forum.  Since we are both entitled to our own opinion.......well.........  However, That small percentage of resting and eating ice cream is one thing I agree with you about....lol

Well, I will say you did what I expected you to do. You took the one thing I asked you to regard as an example and instead made it your focus. Go ahead and justify your own criticism of religions and beliefs outside your chosen few that make the grade. Go ahead and disregard the superiority you give to Christian beliefs and the Bible. If you got honest, you would see what that entire post I made was saying, and NOT pick and choose the one piece you wanted to look at. I am willing to bet their are others who DID see what I was saying, but they are too afraid to go against you and speak up about it. It's a no-no for someone to bring up atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, because those are 'flukes'. It is perfectly okay though to label another's as 'what they all do and believe'. What a joke.

[Annella]

To jordondog:  We've been over this Islam/Muslim conversation over and over.  I've studied it...you've studied it. We come out with 2 different opinions.....so what?  No 2 people agree on everything in the world.  You and I disagree on just about 99.99% of just about everything written on this forum.  Since we are both entitled to our own opinion.......well.........  However, That small percentage of resting and eating ice cream is one thing I agree with you about....lol

Well, I will say you did what I expected you to do. You took the one thing I asked you to regard as an example and instead made it your focus. Go ahead and justify your own criticism of religions and beliefs outside your chosen few that make the grade. Go ahead and disregard the superiority you give to Christian beliefs and the Bible. If you got honest, you would see what that entire post I made was saying, and NOT pick and choose the one piece you wanted to look at. I am willing to bet their are others who DID see what I was saying, but they are too afraid to go against you and speak up about it. It's a no-no for someone to bring up atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, because those are 'flukes'. It is perfectly okay though to label another's as 'what they all do and believe'. What a joke.

Your entitled to your opinion.....

[teflonfanatic]

What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.

I'd much rather have people think this way than exclaim, "You were never a true Christian!!!"  I was also a vegetarian for 3.5 years and now I'm not; does that mean I was never a true vegetarian??

you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.

Though i'm not atheist, i'll have to agree with the atheistic avril look-alike here. It's true due to the faults hey'll be leadership issues. However if you were with the original 12 tribes of Israel in bible times, would you leave them because the king failed to lead his tribe?  Before you make that decision know that you will b turning your back on God's arrangement.

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

Quote from queenofnines:
So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.

I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Here are a couple of questions, or statements that are examples (that have been asked of me or put to me) that would qualify "seeds of critical thinking":
  1.  The Bible is full of contradictions. (List the problems you see and I will try to answer and show why it is not a contradiction.  I use 1 Peter 3:15-16 to help remind me of my defense mode.): "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear, Having a good conscience, that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation (manner of life) in Christ."

  2.  Why do you think the Bible is the Word of God? Prove it.  (Part of my answer involves the fulfilled prophecies that have already come to pass, are happening, and will happen.)

  3. I was a Christian and changed my mind. (Well, first off, were you saved because you went to church, or were you saved as you accepted Jesus in your heart as your personal Savior?  If the first, then you were probably not saved in the first place, because works don't save you. Jesus does, when you acknowledge Him as Savior.  If you were really saved, then you are still saved, and in a manner of God's time and works, He will eventually deal with you in such a way as to bring you back into fellowship with Him.)  Usually this leads to further debate regarding this.
 
I could add more, but by asking questions instead of name-calling our beliefs, you will find people are much more willing to debate because their input to them (or me) is as valuable to me as yours is to you.  It makes a big difference in how we are both affected.

[tammyrwa]

First of all, for those who feel as if the message is not penetrating the minds and hearts of people- it is, working because we are having this discussion with non- believers of Jesus.m To the girl who was raped, i feel sorry for you- were too young to have a boyfriend anyway- I hope you prosecuted him- wrer you warned not to be with him?- did you have a feeling that you weren't supposed to be with him- don't blame god for the actions of a person who knew right from wrong. What's wrong with keeping yourself celibate?what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?. Don't use names like retard- keep the discussion on a mature level. I read the bible front to back. I am  reading the whole thing again-I don't have a problem with it  at all- it sure beats some of the other silly stupid stuff people are reading under the guise of intellectualism- I would read a book called the bible- if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told. it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal- if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both. How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense. I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved- it has to be a heart experience, not a head experience. you can criticize Christianity all you want,just check it out with real evidence what you think. Vegetarianism and Chistianity aren't the same- you can't compare the two- vegtarianism has to do with the natural, and Christianity has to do with the spiritual- if you decide you don't want to be vegetarian anymore, you just change your eating habits- Christianity is different- you don't just walk away- it's not that simple- you might falter,where you break fellowship with God but, you walk away from him, but he  doesn't walk away from you- you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.

[amyrouse]

First of all, for those who feel as if the message is not penetrating the minds and hearts of people- it is, working because we are having this discussion with non- believers of Jesus.m To the girl who was raped, i feel sorry for you- were too young to have a boyfriend anyway- I hope you prosecuted him- wrer you warned not to be with him?- did you have a feeling that you weren't supposed to be with him- don't blame god for the actions of a person who knew right from wrong. What's wrong with keeping yourself celibate?what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?. Don't use names like retard- keep the discussion on a mature level. I read the bible front to back. I am  reading the whole thing again-I don't have a problem with it  at all- it sure beats some of the other silly stupid stuff people are reading under the guise of intellectualism- I would read a book called the bible- if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told. it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal- if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both. How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense. I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved- it has to be a heart experience, not a head experience. you can criticize Christianity all you want,just check it out with real evidence what you think. Vegetarianism and Chistianity aren't the same- you can't compare the two- vegtarianism has to do with the natural, and Christianity has to do with the spiritual- if you decide you don't want to be vegetarian anymore, you just change your eating habits- Christianity is different- you don't just walk away- it's not that simple- you might falter,where you break fellowship with God but, you walk away from him, but he  doesn't walk away from you- you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.

It is much more difficult than you think to "change your eating habits" when a vegetarian.  I've been one for fifteen years...if I eat even a bite of anything that was cooked with meat, fried in the same oil, or stirred with the same spoon I get ill...whether or not I knew it was done.

I can see you are new to this forum.  I can also see that nothing will change your mind.  As for your comments on evolution...QON said it best.  Americans originally came from Europe...but why are there still Europeans?  The monkey argument is the most upheld and possibly one of the weakest arguments against evolution there is.  There is much discussion about it through these pages...it might do you some good to skim over them.

[shernajwine]

I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Excellent post jcribb. I have tried to say this same thing but haven't said it near as well, and without pent up frustration in my fingers lol. 

[jcribb16]

I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Excellent post jcribb. I have tried to say this same thing but haven't said it near as well, and without pent up frustration in my fingers lol. 

Thanks, Sherna.  Actually, regarding these later posts, I was more calm when writing them.  The others I spouted off in because of the feeling of not being listened to.  Then, queenofnines posted a response to someone and actually opened up about why she says some of the things she does, and admitted to a couple of things that were put to her.  That's when my "ire" calmed down. Also when she commented on the way she, Falconer, and I used to debate in a better way, and the part to you about your compliments to her, I changed my way of thinking about how to approach things on here.  Religion, whether it's combined with any other topic (ex. homosexuality, etc.) or not, is going to get heated. But things were getting way too heated and actually getting kind of ugly.  Hopefully, we can get back to a better debating conversation, with no-nonsense questions, answers, and rebuttals.

[freepcmoney]

Well, you might be a RETARD, IF you let what THEY SAY about your belief in God really bother you, OR afect your belief and service to God. CERTAINLY NOT A TRUE BELIEVER.

A BELIEF IS NOT MERELY AN IDEA THAT THE MIND POSSESSES; IT IS AN IDEA THAT POSSESSES THE MIND!!!

[queenofnines]

what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?.

So if you have sex outside of marriage at all you are a *bleep*?  Sorry, but that's kind of what you're making it sound like by using the term "promiscuous".  Kids don't save marriages; they wreck a lot of them.  STDs and preggers are not something one really has to worry about if they are responsible (modern contraception - it's a beautiful thing!).  Obviously a lot of people are not responsible...being married makes no difference.

if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told.

Hmm, I think Disney movies are far better fairy tales than the Bible because a least they don't promote slavery, rape, murder, incest, or eternal punishment.

it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal

Do you know what the characteristic of a mammal are?  You might want to look that up, because you are one.

if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both.

We did not come from apes.  We share a common ancestor - as does all life on Earth.  We split off into different species and evolved at different rates, adapting to our unique environments.  Does that make sense now??

How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense.

I think people are joking when they say stuff like this (no offense).  I guess it just goes to show the poor, poor state of our education system.

I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved

I know the reason you are saying this is because you simply **can't imagine** how millions have realized the B.S. and left your religion.  It's like when you have kids and the well-off couple with lots of freedom doesn't, you can't understand why they don't want to be in your club; why they don't like what you like.  The point is I know what your feelings are (how could anyone stop believing in god??), but the way many Christians present this feeling only makes them look like judgmental, condescending jerks.

Oh, you think you can speak for our past experience, can you?  You think you have the authority to judge and label what atheists went through without having been there yourself?  You think you know better than the ex-Christian knows themself?

Is it that hard to admit, "Atheists who used to believe came across realizations/knowledge that resulted in their departure from religion.  I'm not sure what those realizations were, but I'm all comfy and cozy with this idea of heaven, so it doesn't matter."  ??

you don't just walk away- it's not that simple

Normally it's more of a process...like a slow realization of things over time.

you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.

So many of the people you think are going to hell actually aren't.  

[queenofnines]

Hmm, I think Disney movies are far better fairy tales than the Bible because a least they don't promote slavery, rape, murder, incest, or eternal punishment.

Hell No, Living in heaven for eternity and seeing all your loved ones and friends and having everything you want wins hand down.

lol  You just kind of admitted that heaven is a fairy tale (or at least sounds like one).

[queenofnines]

And just a quick history lesson: Hammurabi's Code predates the Bible by at least 1,000 years and contains all three of those laws.  So no, you don't get to claim that the Bible has ANYTHING to do with our laws.

Atheist comic from my hubby that relates to this: 

[queenofnines]

You're scared of hell aren't you?

Not in the slightest.

Well you should be but why do you keep bringing hell up? Who are you trying to convince, Us or yourself?

Why do you all keep ignoring it?  It's a horrible aspect of your religion, and you know it!

[jordandog]

You're scared of hell aren't you?

Not in the slightest.

Well you should be but why do you keep bringing hell up? Who are you trying to convince, Us or yourself?

Why do you all keep ignoring it?  It's a horrible aspect of your religion, and you know it!

And going to jail is a horrible aspect of life...um, yeah so

Wow, that's a well thought out comeback!    At the very least we all know jails actually exist.