dosen't the story of jesus sound like hercules??

[queenofnines]

This debating has got me to think and brought me back to how I feel deep down inside. When I really think about it, I find that the bible is false, Jesus is false, prophets are false, religion is false and basically everything you ever thought was false.

I do however believe there is a creator, a higher power, something larger but we don't know who that is...if I were to try to define this power, this intelligence...I would believe that it created everything and when we die, we are not destroyed but change into an energy and live in another realm/dimension.

I don't think there is a hell (that is made up) and I don't think the creator has anything to do with us while we are alive...we have free will and we fend for ourselves and when we die then we go to our creator...that is what I believe, I will in no way contradict this because it is my real belief...that is why I am no religion, because I think they are all false anyways.

This is a step in the right direction.   

[queenofnines]

it is the largest seller of ALL books published.

Just because it's been bought doesn't mean it's been read.     Think of how many Bibles have been wasted on hotel rooms...you people inflate your numbers, no fair!

Why would God have people writing things in a language that didn't exist 1500 years ago?? That's an illogical argument.

So why didn't god inspire people in this day-and-age to come up with an updated version?  Psh, because we would think these "prophets" were crazy, of course!  Yes, it's much better to rely on ancient, anonymous, pre-scientific texts that can't be verified to get our "truth"...har har.

If you bothered to read the article I posted from you

Girl, I was right there with you when I was Christian.  Those silly Catholics.  Praying to Mary and saints, eating wafers, going to confession...don't they know non-denominational, white supremacist Christianity is the ONLY true religion?!  Someone needs to send a memo to like, 2/3 of all the Jesus believers...they're doing it wrong!!  And they will BURN!

/ sarcasm

[jcribb16]

Please, oh competent one, explain how God would have a book written in a language that would be understood by the biblical age people and us, the people of the 21st century, and people of how many other future centuries there are ahead of us?

So you're admitting he's not all-powerful?  He's god -- can't he do anything?!  Does he not write sequels?  lol

God is all-powerful, we, however, are not perfect. Certain cultures and dialects have, through the years, have been hard to understand at face value.  There are translations that help us to understand more.  Just as a student has to study and research in school, we have to study and research from and about our Master Teacher. Otherwise, we were be perfect like God, and then there would be no reason to study God's Word, because we would know it all.  We are to study and develop our spiritual lives with His Word.  Please don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[jcribb16]

This debating has got me to think and brought me back to how I feel deep down inside. When I really think about it, I find that the bible is false, Jesus is false, prophets are false, religion is false and basically everything you ever thought was false.

I do however believe there is a creator, a higher power, something larger but we don't know who that is...if I were to try to define this power, this intelligence...I would believe that it created everything and when we die, we are not destroyed but change into an energy and live in another realm/dimension.

I don't think there is a hell (that is made up) and I don't think the creator has anything to do with us while we are alive...we have free will and we fend for ourselves and when we die then we go to our creator...that is what I believe, I will in no way contradict this because it is my real belief...that is why I am no religion, because I think they are all false anyways.

Marie, please stop yo-yoing about "Yes, I'm a Christian,"; "no, I'm not."  You are making me carsick.  One minute you back the Christians, and the next you are saying the opposite.  That doesn't help your credibility one way or the other.

[jcribb16]

Please, oh competent one, explain how God would have a book written in a language that would be understood by the biblical age people and us, the people of the 21st century, and people of how many other future centuries there are ahead of us?

So you're admitting he's not all-powerful?  He's god -- can't he do anything?!  Does he not write sequels?  lol

I'm saying God did just fine with the bible we have. With such a diverse amount of language and culture in the world it has been translated in part or in whole into over 2000 languages and dialects. And it is the largest seller of ALL books published.

God can do anything. We today have the ability to interpret languages that once existed based on history. We do just fine. Why would God have people writing things in a language that didn't exist 1500 years ago?? That's an illogical argument.

Note to Sherna -- the Catholics ARE the original Christians!

No they are not. The churches in the NT were the original Christians and they didn't worship the virgin or saints, or wear beads or any other such nonsense in the Catholic church. If you bothered to read the article I posted from you would see how the Catholic church came into being and how it veered off the original apostolic churches of the NT.

Sherna is correct. They were the Christians of Antioch.

[shernajwine]

Girl, I was right there with you when I was Christian.  Those silly Catholics.  Praying to Mary and saints, eating wafers, going to confession...don't they know non-denominational, white supremacist Christianity is the ONLY true religion?!  Someone needs to send a memo to like, 2/3 of all the Jesus believers...they're doing it wrong!!  And they will BURN!

/ sarcasm

There is no one TRUE religion. There is only truth according to the bible.

But go ahead with your sarcasm  It is only a tactic to poke fun and isn't a legitimate argument. 

[jcribb16]

In reference to Asimov's quote, how can anyone say another person's opinion "is not true"?! That's taking it ('it' being anything that is seen as non-bible/christian support) way too far in my opinion.

Thanks jordandog!

Hey queen, waaay late on this one, but you're welcome.

Fact is something that is true.  His opinion is based on ideas that do not match with God's creation and the Bible.  And like you said, it's your opinion that what I'm saying is taking it way too far.  All I can really say is one day people will know the truth and will find out that God is real.  I agree it's hard to believe in something other than how something can or cannot be proved through science.  But that is where "faith" comes in and believes in something (in this case, God) who is real, but cannot be seen (yet.)

[jcribb16]

God's Word (Bible) is perfect.  It is not as you say it is.

No offense, but people who say this either haven't read the whole Bible, or are kidding themselves.

Care to take a crack at some of the inconsistencies if you think it's "perfect", then?  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

Atrocities: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

Vulgarities: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/vulgar.html

Also, that quote of Asimov's is not true and defies the Lord God openly.

It's true for me and many other atheists I know of!  It was a big part of the puzzle in my waking up from religion.  You know, when I actually started to sit down and read it straight through like a good Christian should.  

First of all, I read through this, but this is what makes the writer opinionated.  Here's his beginning quote:
"NOTE: These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation. Some of the selections may be resolvable on certain interpretations--after all, almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations--but it is the reader's obligation to test this possibility and to decide whether it really makes appropriate sense to do this. To help readers in this task, these lists are aimed at presenting examples where problems may exist given certain allowable (but not always obligatory) assumptions. It should be kept in mind that a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired. It should also be kept in mind that what is and is not an inconsistency or contradiction is to some extent a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree with the author that these are, in fact, inconsistencies or contradictions."
   He says "possible problems" and he also says "test this possibility and to decide...," and "...where problems may exist."  He is not even sure himself of these "possible" problems. God's Word is perfect meaning there are no possible problems to decide on.

[shernajwine]

 

He says "possible problems" and he also says "test this possibility and to decide...," and "...where problems may exist."  He is not even sure himself of these "possible" problems. God's Word is perfect meaning there are no possible problems to decide on.

Excellent jcrib! 

Queen, I hope you don't take offense to this but you seem nearly as obsessed with hell as marie!

Message ID: 234150 they're doing it wrong!!  And they will BURN!
Message ID: 233800 because he feared you would burn forever for being inherently "bad"
Message ID: 232132  It would have been a sacrifice if Jesus was left to burn in hell forever
Message ID: 231914 he will send you to hell for all eternity
Message ID: 232132 you'll scream and burn and cry and moan and feel pain and be tortured, forever and ever!
Message ID: 225661 you're sinful and will burn in hell if you don't devote your life to Jesus)
Message ID: 224476 Wow, don't you know you would have gone straight to hell and suffered forever by ending your own life?
Message ID: 224476 you might STILL not pass the test and end up in hell rather than the good place
Message ID: 223556 They're still going to burn in agony, for ever and ever!
Message ID: 221678 no longer have to fear the awful invention called hell.
Message ID: 221678  I was involved in several church groups, went to revivals, had a MySpace and book started about Jesus, and even wrote on dollar bills directing people to a site about hell. 
Message ID: 221333  Worship me or burn

And this is only within the last month. Granted some of these were taken from the thread Hell is an Unattended Stove...but you started a thread about hell! Did you go to a church where hell was used to scare people? I'm not trying to pick on you but I'm curious as to why it always goes back to the hell issue when you are debating. Also the statement I bolded seems to imply that that is how you yourself witnessed to people....using the reality of hell as a scare tactic. Ironically, it seems you're now using the unreality of hell to veer people away from Christianity?

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
He says "possible problems" and he also says "test this possibility and to decide...," and "...where problems may exist."  He is not even sure himself of these "possible" problems. God's Word is perfect meaning there are no possible problems to decide on.

quote from Sherna:
Excellent jcrib! 


Thank you Sherna!

[queenofnines]

I don't understand how you can say that, sherna. I saw in a post (don't ask me what thread it was, too many to keep track of right now ) you stated Jehovah's Witnesses were a 'false religion'. Who are you, or anyone, to say that just because they deviate from the exact premises set out in the bible? I'm fairly sure they would say the same thing about your's, that it was a 'false' belief/religion, and I would question that also. It is like you all want to think that you have the corner on what god wants.

All sects of Christianity think everyone else is wrong and they're the only ones who are right.  The funny thing is, they're all wrong! 

What does it say about god when there are tens of thousands of different ideas about him?  Hmm, maybe that he doesn't exist?

[queenofnines]

Queen, I hope you don't take offense to this but you seem nearly as obsessed with hell as marie!

How can I be obsessed about something that doesn't exist?

Did you go to a church where hell was used to scare people?

No.  Churches don't like to talk about the parts of their religion/Bible that are uncomfortable or bad, you know.  I think more churches SHOULD talk about it, though.  Then maybe some more people would come to their senses...

I'm not trying to pick on you but I'm curious as to why it always goes back to the hell issue when you are debating.

Because it's pretty horrible for your religion to go around telling people that they're going to be burned and tortured and punished FOREVER if they don't become a slave to an invisible, inaudible deity.  You really don't know how much harm that's doing, do you?

it seems you're now using the unreality of hell to veer people away from Christianity?

Yes, because it's a major way to reason with people.  Consider these points, folks:

#1 - First of all, how exactly are you going to be able to feel pain in hell without any nerve endings?  Your physical body will be dead, remember.

#2 - The concept of free will is a lie because if you don't believe in and sacrifice your only life to Jesus, you're sentenced to hell.  That's blackmail, people.  Good video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wSjJAsrAk

#3 - The Xtians can blow smoke all they want, making excuses about "ultimate justice", but it is NOT justice to punish people INFINITELY for FINITE crimes.  That is not logical, that is not perfect, that is not just.  Hitler could only cause a limited amount of suffering in his lifetime; therefore, there's no point and it is beyond cruel to have him tortured FOREVER.

#4 - Again, Xtians like to proclaim how "god is love", but it is most certainly NOT love to inflict cruel and unusal punishment on one's children for billions upon billions of years (and then billions more) for ANY reason.  THINK ABOUT THAT.

#5 - So a serial killer rapist is allowed into heaven if he says, "Oops, my bad!  I believe in you, Jesus!" but a sweet old lady scientist who donated to charity and lived a good life (but just so happened to be a skeptic) deserves to burn?  Again, THINK ABOUT THAT.

#6 - The concept of a "good" place and a "bad" place after you die just sounds like a total fairytale.  Like something our primitive ancestors who didn't understand how the world works came up with.

** Hell is a vile human invention meant to control, oppress, and garner obedience. **

[502mania]

thanks for bringing that to light queenofnines, i was starting to think i was the only one who didn't buy the whole hell thing/...

[shernajwine]

There is definitely a misconception about hell and it's purpose.

People who wind up in hell, get there for one reason and one reason only. They chose to reject God. It's not a place you suffer for being bad. People who have been presented with the gospel, understand the message, and reject it have made a choice.

We went over this before queen. To force people to be with God forever against their will isn't loving. The atheist Kelly from the RRS, when asked...."what if you're wrong" said she would rather go to hell than spend eternity with a megalomaniacal god. She has clearly made a choice. God does love her, and He loves you. But you have made a choice to reject Him, and the place that is set aside for the people who don't want God is called hell.

Why should hell be preached in churches when these people who go to church are there because they are choosing God? Hell doesn't wait for them, it's not even something they need to concern themselves with, because they made a choice to accept Him. Hell is not for sinners, it is for the people who don't want God. There is no amount of performance of good or bad that will take you to either place, it's a simple choice.....do you want to spend eternity with God or away from Him?

In trying to witness to people about Christ and His sacrifice, the message is that of good news. The good news is that sin no longer has to be a burden, you don't have to be slave to it anymore. Once people understand the love of God, there should no longer be fear of hell. There is no place in hell for the people who love God.

[502mania]

either heaven or hell would be eternal life. and i really don't think there is a heaven or hell. there has to be something more complex. and even satan BELIEVES in god, what im trying to say is, its important to make the most out of life and love ALL other forms of life and respect everyones thoughts and views.