dosen't the story of jesus sound like hercules??

[jcribb16]

  Quote from queenofnines:
<<Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were the historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

   That is just an opinion. The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.  Maybe to you, in your heart of hearts, but not our heart of hearts.

[shernajwine]

  Quote from queenofnines:
<<Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were the historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

   That is just an opinion. The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.  Maybe to you, in your heart of hearts, but not our heart of hearts.

The fact that there are atheists is also meaningless lol.

[Falconer02]

that last post was to when you said the jesus stuff. but im saying, everything came from something, the big bang theory has so many holes as do religions, niether can be proved by science, and right now there is no proof of either.

The big bang has been proven though with overwhelming evidence that can be seen with technology. It's absolutely amazing how they figured it out in the last 80 or so years. I cannot begin to explain it in depth as it would render this post huge but, if you're interested, this video explains it very well- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqJ2eEzD3o I know it's 11 minutes, but I highly implore you to watch it if you have the time. It's very cool stuff and I guarentee you'll learn a lot.

Let me also say that I'm glad you're asking these types of questions. Good for you. I hope we're helping and being clear.

That is just an opinion. The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.  Maybe to you, in your heart of hearts, but not our heart of hearts.

Emotionally no, it is not meaningless. I totally agree that people can find comfort in your beliefs and it can help them which is totally fine (unless it is out of fear). But you can do this without religion too. When applying it to anything out of that emotional context, it is meaningless and sparks many irrelevent debates that always fall to the claims of artificial stories.

the "gaps" are increasing as more evidence is uncovered

This happens with many things though. As usual, this does not mean your defined god exists-- if anything it would seem to push the focus away from a defined god. I admit it leaves space for an undefined metaphysical entity that is beyond a universal/naturalistic view, but putting faith in one man-made god and folding my arms at the other infinite possiblities is absolutely ludicrous. It would seem more wise to 'twiddle my beard' at the thought during the search and not throw all of my chips on one number because I have an emotional focus on it. I'd like to hear Queens thoughts on this too as I might be missing something major here.

[jcribb16]

That is just an opinion. The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.  Maybe to you, in your heart of hearts, but not our heart of hearts.

Emotionally no, it is not meaningless. I totally agree that people can find comfort in your beliefs and it can help them which is totally fine (unless it is out of fear). But you can do this without religion too. When applying it to anything out of that emotional context, it is meaningless and sparks many irrelevent debates that always fall to the claims of artificial stories.

We are both entitled to agree to disagree here.  I have a problem when people speak for others with their own opinions instead of fact.  I don't bash anyone's faith, but a few on here simply refuse to acknowledge that there is a difference between opinion and fact.  To call my faith meaningless is ridiculous. I don't call someone's belief in atheism meaningless to their "face."  I don't believe that way but I accept their choice to believe that way.  They should my accept my choice to believe my way, as well, even though they don't believe my way.  Either way, we need to be extremely careful what we say and do, because one day each and every person will be accountable for their words (regarding religion/faith/etc.)

[queenofnines]

The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.

The point is, strength in numbers isn't a "proof" for god.  And I would advise you all to really consider all of the ancient gods that are now dead.  Those people believed just as strongly as you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pmZupCM8q8 --> non-offensive vid that points out how a lot of the dead gods now show up in our products (lol)

I don't call someone's belief in atheism meaningless to their "face."

Everything is ultimately meaningless...I'll own that. 

[shernajwine]

I'd like to hear Queens thoughts on this too as I might be missing something major here.

What you are missing is what every field of science is missing....a natural explanation for the "gaps". Because there isn't one. And queen has already said she isn't a scientist, but it appears that since you can't effectively argue against what I said you are seeking help from someone else who can.

But queen, we are waiting.....how does evolution create information to effectively fill the gaps that God is forbidden to take residence in, and falsify Intelligent Design?

[jcribb16]

The fact that I and millions of people worship our Lord, is not meaningless to us.

The point is, strength in numbers isn't a "proof" for god.  And I would advise you all to really consider all of the ancient gods that are now dead.  Those people believed just as strongly as you do.

I don't need to consider all of the ancient gods.  I consider only God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (3-in-one; Trinity.) I believe the Bible is God's Word, written by men that God chose to put His words into written form for us that become His.  There is so much evidence, especially in Israel, Egypt, Greece, etc. that even today have places preserved and marked where people from the Bible actually walked, preached, worked, killed, etc.

[Falconer02]

What you are missing is what every field of science is missing....a natural explanation for the "gaps". Because there isn't one.

Every field of science is missing? That's quite a statement. Ugh...again...if there are gaps, it does not mean your defined Yahweh exists. It just means a viable explanation hasn't presented itself yet due to current limitations. This seems even too defined to label as ID as it states " one which purposefully avoids specifying the nature or identity of the designer" in it's definition. Simply put- what I take as you saying is a rainbows end is where leprechauns hide their pot of gold. Since we don't have decent technology to study a rainbow light spectrum, leprechaun gold is a logical conclusion and should be given scientific scrutiny.

And queen has already said she isn't a scientist, but it appears that since you can't effectively argue against what I said you are seeking help from someone else who can.

No...? I just wanted to hear her opinion. I admit I'm not a scientist either, but I consider looking at things rationally as being a step up from following unoriginal mythology as an explanation of the universe. I'll get back to you later on the evolution question-- it's a nice day out here!

[502mania]

you have a point there falconer....

[Falconer02]

About it being a nice day? I know!

[shernajwine]

4) When Jesus died, he was resurrected 3 days later and then abruptly left, telling his disciples he’d be back within their lifetimes (an obvious lie)....

4. Jesus died, was ressurrected 3 days later, visited his disciples and foretold that some of them would witness his transfiguration.

And there is no solid proof for this whatsoever.  Such a shame to waste one's only life being hung up on the myths of our superstitious, 2000-year-old ancestors!

Funny how you glossed over the fact that you, yet again, misinterpreted scripture. You accused Jesus of lying, but turns out he wasn't. Nice try though.

3. Jesus died for your sins.

I didn't ask him to.

I hope if I am ever about to be run over by a car, I won't have to ask bystanders to save me. I hope that my husband loves me enough that if my life were in danger I won't have to ask him to save me, that he will save me without even thinking of his own life because he loves me that much.

[502mania]

great point sherna....

[queenofnines]

Funny how you glossed over the fact that you, yet again, misinterpreted scripture. You accused Jesus of lying, but turns out he wasn't. Nice try though.

<<Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 16:28

The language is clear.  Jesus told his disciples that some of them would not die before he returned, but that's obviously not how things went down, now is it?

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matthew 10:22-23

The cities of Israel were not so numerous that it would have taken a fleeing man 2000 years to go over or through them.  No man could live that long.  Christ said before a fleeing man could go through all the cities, he would come.  Again, Christ was speaking of his return in that generation.

What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short.  From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them.  For this world in its present form is passing away.
(1 Corinthians 7:29-31 - NIV)

Paul tells the Corinthians that time is short and that the world in its present form is passing away.  His words have a strong sense of urgency, rather than being a mere suggestion.  Paul believes the world is presently passing away.  He is not speaking of some event which could take place 2000 years in the future.

Source: http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/comingagain.html >>


But I suppose you're just going to reply something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o

I hope if I am ever about to be run over by a car, I won't have to ask bystanders to save me. I hope that my husband loves me enough that if my life were in danger I won't have to ask him to save me, that he will save me without even thinking of his own life because he loves me that much.

Let me get this straight -- you're comparing your husband to Jesus?  That isn't a proper analogy because you can prove your husband exists; you can prove your husband isn't invisible; you can prove your husband loves you without it being all in your head.

Also, your hubby's sacrifice would be PERMANENT whereas Jesus's wasn't.

[502mania]

wow, i'm totally starting to see the other side of this argument. queenofnines you sure did bring things to light.  to you

[jcribb16]

queenofnines:  If you do not believe in God, and the Scriptures, then how can you quote (above post) from it just to try and prove points?