Hell is an Unattended Stove

[shernajwine]

There isn't anything else to debate on this particular thread (for me anyway). I feel good about the points I brought out and if I made anyone stop even more a moment and think about what we discussed, then I am happy with that. There is no debate that will get anywhere discussing what atheism is, or isn't.

So hopefully Queen and I entertained some people and gave people food for thought. 

[walksalone11]

Sorry but your lie isn't very appealing next to the truth of Jesus Christ and him crucified.

I believe your "God" and my Creator, are one and the same but your Jesus, next to "my" truth, is far from appealing as well.

Just something to think about. Someone......has been mis-informed some where down the line.
For some reason, in my form of Spirituality, threats and mental abuse are not necessary to keep us in line. Not implying anything, just saying;0)

[shernajwine]

threats and mental abuse are not necessary to keep us in line

I don't feel threatened by God nor do I feel mentally abused. I don't believe I am going to hell, I don't fear death, I don't fear the wrath of God. I feel only His unconditional and all enveloping love for me, through the passionate act of Christ on the cross.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[walksalone11]

threats and mental abuse are not necessary to keep us in line

I don't feel threatened by God nor do I feel mentally abused. I don't believe I am going to hell, I don't fear death, I don't fear the wrath of God. I feel only His unconditional and all enveloping love for me, through the passionate act of Christ on the cross.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And you have never met anyone who was completely frantic because they had questions and believed the lie that they were damned for having them, right?

[shernajwine]

Of course I have, but that fear was coming from a lie they believed by the devil. I used to have that fear, that fear didn't come from God, it came from confusion about how God sees me. I am not going to lie and say that there aren't entire church organizations that use the pulpit to instill the fear of hell into people. I have been to those churches, but those preachers will answer for the harm they are doing. Just because a man claims to be speaking the Word of God doesn't mean that he is. Hell is real, and people will go there, that's a fact but that's not the message of the gospel.

If people understood how much God loved them, they would in turn want to love other people. There would be no fear of hell because if people followed the greatest commandment, to love God with all the heart soul and strength, that is all there is to do. Loving God promotes loving each other, when you love each other....there is no "killing in the name of religion" there is no crusades. There is only a desire to love God, love others and love serving.

I know I'm probably over using the word love, but that is the most important message a Christian can spread. More importantly it is the most important way a Christian should act.

[walksalone11]

Of course I have, but that fear was coming from a lie they believed by the devil. I used to have that fear, that fear didn't come from God, it came from confusion about how God sees me. I am not going to lie and say that there aren't entire church organizations that use the pulpit to instill the fear of hell into people. I have been to those churches, but those preachers will answer for the harm they are doing. Just because a man claims to be speaking the Word of God doesn't mean that he is. Hell is real, and people will go there, that's a fact but that's not the message of the gospel.

If people understood how much God loved them, they would in turn want to love other people. There would be no fear of hell because if people followed the greatest commandment, to love God with all the heart soul and strength, that is all there is to do. Loving God promotes loving each other, when you love each other....there is no "killing in the name of religion" there is no crusades. There is only a desire to love God, love others and love serving.

I know I'm probably over using the word love, but that is the most important message a Christian can spread. More importantly it is the most important way a Christian should act.

OHHHHH....see I knew you were a different kind of Christian :0) every other Christian that I have talked to you says that the bible says if you don't believe in jesus and accept him as your saviour, you go to hell,PERIOD. So, it was the devil that said that, eh? I see........

[AmyTrivitt]

"Atheism is not reality it is a lie. Atheism is a religion."

WHAT???
Everyone is in fact born an atheist because everyone is born lacking beliefs in the existence of any gods. As a state or condition, rather than a belief system or ideology, atheism doesnt need to be "invented" or be "come up with" any more than being apolitical needs to be invented. It's simply the state that some people happen to be in, though for many religious believers it seems important to portray atheism as MUCH MORE.

[loulizlee]

To the original poster - have you studied Calvinism?  Its origins and its originators?  And what makes you think the Calvinists are correct?  I have noticed in my 68 years that most people who advance theories as yours have not studied and do not know what they are talking about.  The theories are an excuse to convince themselves there is no God.  And most people who do this are trying to combat the teachings of hard-line preachers and evangelists who don't know what they are talking about either, but who are mostly in the field of religion for the money.  Those people have done more to hurt the people who they say they are trying to help.  If you get down to studying the Bible, you will find it is really simple and you don't have to believe outrageous theories.

[walksalone11]

UHH OHH here we go again........if ya need me I'll be under my desk.

[shernajwine]

if you don't believe in jesus and accept him as your saviour, you go to hell,PERIOD.

Every man will be judged according to what he knows, and is capable of understanding. The mental abuse is when someone is told if they are bad they go to hell. Well, it's not possible for anyone to be good by a standard of perfection (God) and then a person begins to see God as some Big Judge with a strap just waiting for you to get out of line. That's not how it is. That's not MY Christianity, that IS Christianity. There are just people in the past and present who misrepresent what the Word of God actually says.

So, it was the devil that said that, eh? I see........

I hope I am mistaken when I hear sarcasm in these words.

[walksalone11]

if you don't believe in jesus and accept him as your saviour, you go to hell,PERIOD.

Every man will be judged according to what he knows, and is capable of understanding. The mental abuse is when someone is told if they are bad they go to hell. Well, it's not possible for anyone to be good by a standard of perfection (God) and then a person begins to see God as some Big Judge with a strap just waiting for you to get out of line. That's not how it is. That's not MY Christianity, that IS Christianity. There are just people in the past and present who misrepresent what the Word of God actually says.

So, it was the devil that said that, eh? I see........

I hope I am mistaken when I hear sarcasm in these words.

So you agree that in most Christian institutions there is mental abuse happening?

And no Ma'am,you are not mistaking.

[jcribb16]

"Atheism is not reality it is a lie. Atheism is a religion."

WHAT???
Everyone is in fact born an atheist because everyone is born lacking beliefs in the existence of any gods. As a state or condition, rather than a belief system or ideology, atheism doesnt need to be "invented" or be "come up with" any more than being apolitical needs to be invented. It's simply the state that some people happen to be in, though for many religious believers it seems important to portray atheism as MUCH MORE.

I disagree that everyone is born an atheist.  "Atheism takes the position that it is rational to believe that gods don't exist, based on logic and lack of evidence. Agnosticism, on the other hand, states that the lack of knowledge cannot inform the belief at all.": by Rational/Wiki.  I had to question that misconception.  Now, on the other hand, babies born wouldn't be any of these because they know nothing other than the comforts they need at the time.  Until they reach an age of understanding, they shouldn't be labled.  Only then, can they delve into knowledge and believe in what/who ever they choose to believe in, whether theism, atheism, etc.

[shernajwine]

Well, I'm sorry walks but I don't want to continue the conversation if you're going to be sarcastic. I'm not a doormat and I'm not going to allow you or anyone else to goad me into a conversation just so you can wipe your feet on me with snide, sarcastic and back handed comments.

[AmyTrivitt]

"Atheism is not reality it is a lie. Atheism is a religion."

WHAT???
Everyone is in fact born an atheist because everyone is born lacking beliefs in the existence of any gods. As a state or condition, rather than a belief system or ideology, atheism doesnt need to be "invented" or be "come up with" any more than being apolitical needs to be invented. It's simply the state that some people happen to be in, though for many religious believers it seems important to portray atheism as MUCH MORE.

I disagree that everyone is born an atheist.  "Atheism takes the position that it is rational to believe that gods don't exist, based on logic and lack of evidence. Agnosticism, on the other hand, states that the lack of knowledge cannot inform the belief at all.": by Rational/Wiki.  I had to question that misconception.  Now, on the other hand, babies born wouldn't be any of these because they know nothing other than the comforts they need at the time.  Until they reach an age of understanding, they shouldn't be labled.  Only then, can they delve into knowledge and believe in what/who ever they choose to believe in, whether theism, atheism, etc.

NO one should be labled,, but yes we are ALL born not knowing!!!!!

[walksalone11]

Well, I'm sorry walks but I don't want to continue the conversation if you're going to be sarcastic. I'm not a doormat and I'm not going to allow you or anyone else to goad me into a conversation just so you can wipe your feet on me with snide, sarcastic and back handed comments.

That is your right,however I think you misinterpreted my intention just a bit. Have a wonderful evening Mrs. Shernajwine.