Religion and Homosexuality

[shernajwine]

I guess this poor kid's sin of his sexuality was just as bad as the one committed by those who bullied him...

You know why God doesn't measure sin like we do? Because there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. There is no sin that could make God not love you.

The sins we commit differ in how they affect other people. Would I prefer to be lied to rather than shot? Of course! But we are not talking about measuring how BAD it is, we are talking about whether or not it is sin, and there is no scale of measurement with God. If someone who has committed murder, falls to their knees crying out to him, God reaches into that person and forgives the ugliness in their life. He will do the same thing for any person regardless of any sin. That's why sin is sin, because forgiveness is forgiveness.

[SurveyMack10]

So forget about whether a person is genetically determined to be a killer, it's not their fault they were born that way but, it doesn't matter because killing is wrong. But gays, they don't hurt anyone so they are allowed to be what they were born to be.

You guys are picking and choosing what gets to be defined as choice and what isn't. If homosexuality isn't a choice because it's in their genes, that fits in perfectly with your physicalist mindset! Great! But now you have to turn it on yourself and admit you don't have a choice either. You don't get to make choices about anything because your genes said so haha! 

That's my point!

[SurveyMack10]

I was born to be a Christian, You were born to be a Jew, nobody is wrong, nobody is right, we are just born the way we are born right? Nobody should be held accountable because we didn't choose to be this way. We were born this way.

Sounds like a bunch of rubbish to me but apparently, according to some of the "born gay" defenders here...it's all about genes! So where do you draw the line between what is a choice and what isn't? And who has the authority to draw that line?

very well put!!!

[Annella]

I guess this poor kid's sin of his sexuality was just as bad as the one committed by those who bullied him...

You know why God doesn't measure sin like we do? Because there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. There is no sin that could make God not love you.

The sins we commit differ in how they affect other people. Would I prefer to be lied to rather than shot? Of course! But we are not talking about measuring how BAD it is, we are talking about whether or not it is sin, and there is no scale of measurement with God. If someone who has committed murder, falls to their knees crying out to him, God reaches into that person and forgives the ugliness in their life. He will do the same thing for any person regardless of any sin. That's why sin is sin, because forgiveness is forgiveness.

YES!!!

[jcribb16]

I understand that you feel homosexuality is a sin that is on par with any other sin.  I, however, disagree with you.  Say its true that homosexuality is a sin (I don't believe it, but for sake of argument here), that sin does not seem to be on par with other sins.  Let's take a look at murder here.  Thou Shalt Not Kill.

You can disagree but, God does not measure sin from small to big. As a matter fact the bible says that hating your brother is murdering him! God puts hate and murder on the same level. You hating someone may never effect them!

Sin is sin, we don't get to decide which is the worst. Is homosexuality different than murder? Yes. But when we are talking about it in regards to sin, it isn't. My gossiping is just as much a sin as being a homosexual! Shame on me, thank God for His grace!

But you want to say, hey this isn't their choice, they were born this way. Okay, a murderer didn't have a choice, they were born to murder people, a rapist...they didn't make a choice to rape, their genes made them do it, they were born to rape somebody.

I was born to be a Christian, You were born to be a Jew, nobody is wrong, nobody is right, we are just born the way we are born right? Nobody should be held accountable because we didn't choose to be this way. We were born this way.

Sounds like a bunch of rubbish to me but apparently, according to some of the "born gay" defenders here...it's all about genes! So where do you draw the line between what is a choice and what isn't? And who has the authority to draw that line?

Wow, excellent points!   

[Falconer02]

But you want to say, hey this isn't their choice, they were born this way. Okay, a murderer didn't have a choice, they were born to murder people, a rapist...they didn't make a choice to rape, their genes made them do it, they were born to rape somebody.

Does anyone here voice the "It's all the fault of genetics and nothing else!" argument? Maybe I missed it.

WE HAVE FREE WILL! Until it comes to sexuality  

And eating, drinking, sleeping, waking, urinating, breathing, etc. Nature calls.

My gossiping is just as much a sin as being a homosexual!

Unfortunately some sins can affect others around us to the point that we have not just sinned against our own selves, but involved someone else in our original sin, and caused them to fall also.

I've seen lies benefit people very well though. And I've forgiven people for 'sinning' both shallowly and deeply against me. But you know what? I'm not even going to go into it or argue with this type of reasoning and I don't think anyone else should. These types of words speak mountains to people who don't believe the same logic pathways. If christians would just keep this type of reasoning within the confines of the religion and nothing more, I would have no issues here. Just keep it off the street, yo. Word.

[jcribb16]

Quote from Falconer:
If christians would just keep this type of reasoning within the confines of the religion and nothing more, I would have no issues here. Just keep it off the street, yo. Word.


Then there would be no room for debate and no reason to have this forum.  I don't think that's going to float well.

[Falconer02]

Then there would be no room for debate and no reason to have this forum.  I don't think that's going to float well.

It's just an opinion to keep the peace-- that type of religious reasoning is sure to spark circular arguments that we've had 50,000 times before. And of course there'd be plenty of other things to argue about!

[Annella]

Quote from Falconer:
If christians would just keep this type of reasoning within the confines of the religion and nothing more, I would have no issues here. Just keep it off the street, yo. Word.

That's impossible for us, since we have been given that Great Commission by God.  You don't want to be muzzled, so why should you restrict us to what you perceive as your acceptable parameters.  Here again is the Freedom of Speech application.

More and more, I see this in D&D.  You want your opinion heard, but not ours.  

[SurveyMack10]

Basically any opinion on here is acceptable except ones that support Christianity, right?

[Annella]

Basically any opinion on here is acceptable except ones that support Christianity, right?

Yup

[AmyTrivitt]

Isn't the homosexual is a bad thing in the Old Testament?

My husband said yes in the Old Testament their is a scripture about how a man should not lay with another man.

[queenofnines]

Here's my point- It has NOT been proven that they are born that way. You can't prove it so you can't convince me (as you are trying to ). In your words, if you're the one trying to do the convincing YOU have the burden of proof. I am NOT trying to convince you, just telling you why I think it's wrong. In my opinion, it i a choice and it's wrong- I have a right to my opinion, you just cann't agree to disagree with anything I say because you disagree with my religion.

So...basically...you just totally avoided answering my question of WHY it's a choice.  I stumped you, perhaps?  Can't think of an explanation other than it's in a book that says it's bad?  Well that STILL doesn't describe how it's a "choice".

We've already given you *our* "burden of proof" by explaining how we all know you can't help who you're attracted to and if you, as a straight person, can't choose to wake up one day and suddenly start liking the same sex, what makes you think ANYONE can?

And I think the non-religious side DOES convince you, you just don't want to admit it...it convinces you if you feel for your fellow human being and grasp that there is no rational argument against it.  How do I know this?  Because I was once a Christian having my morals spoon-fed to me as well.

Again, you have all the right to not approve of gays.  But your beliefs do NOT have the right to restrict basic freedoms from people who are simply different than you.

[queenofnines]

Why are you agnostic falconer?

I read the bible.

I second that!  

Because we all know that Charles Manson is right on par with that little kid who lies about his uncle working for Nintendo.

Exactly, lol.  I don't know why believers keep saying, "All sins are the same!"  That's just nonsense!  NO THEY'RE NOT, and you know it!  Quit sinning -- a.k.a. lying.

Brilliant posts, Falc!  

[queenofnines]

We all make life choices from infancy to adulthood that influence what we are today.

Infancy?  You really think a baby with mush for brains can make conscious decisions?

Why are you atheist qon?  Why are we Christian?  We are what we chose to be.

I chose to be a Christian, I chose to finally do my research to get out of said Christianity, but I did not choose to be an atheist.  Given my new knowledge about god and Christianity, I had no choice but to be an atheist.  To press on being a Christian knowing what I knew about the religion delusion would be like denying that the sky is blue.  

Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

The Bible speaks of the enemy (devil).  He is the influencer, of all things evil.  His job description is to steal, kill, and destroy.

Again, if you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

Religion has seriously convinced you that there's an invisible, evil bogeyman dude and his minions running around wreaking havoc and taking control of people's brains and bodies!!!  How can you people not see how cuckoo this is??!!!