Religion and Homosexuality

[Falconer02]

What's that, Amy? I can't hear you. I've got a banana in my ear!

[amyrouse]

What's that, Amy? I can't hear you. I've got a banana in my ear!

HAHA!  YESSSS!  Just a few more posts, and I can declare I started a "thing"!!!  With a little help from Ernie, of course.  Here, fishy fishy fishy!

[Falconer02]

The Ear Banana. I have an idea for a really weird sex toy.

[Annella]

I researched some into this myself and found that there are proposed causes of homosexuality.. I'm only listing them, not saying that I am promoting them.  This is courtesy of "Encyclopedia of Creation Science."

1. Genes as a cause: "the gene has not been identified, so this view is not science, but mere speculation; statistical studies give strong evidence that homosexuality is not caused by genetics, but is influenced by environment; even if there were a genetic causation to the behavior, that would not still not make it acceptable. We all have the predisposition to sin. Being genetically predisposed to a certain attribute does not make the attribute any less harmful. The real issue is not whether it is genetic, but whether it is harmful."

2.  Environmental influences: "Many hold the view that early childhood experiences predispose people to homosexuality. From a very young age, a child's experiences gained from the environment allow a predisposition for homosexual practice; Very few would deny this is at least a contributor. The Bible states, "Raise a child in the ways of the Lord and he will not depart from it" Proverbs 22:6 (NKJV). In short, parents play an important role in influencing their children's choices. However, despite the effect of parents on their children, children are still responsible for their own actions. The environmental aspect triggers social behaviors within society that could in part be the origin of what scientists call, the homosexuality gene. The fact that a child is socialized to be homosexual does not make the behavior any less tragic than a child that is socialized to be a sociopath"

3.  Choice:  "Most people of faith believe that homosexuality is a choice. Many recovering homosexuals describe their homosexuality as being caused by a combination of socialization and choice, and that their return to a healthy, heterosexual lifestyle was also the result of choice, self-discipline, and faith. "


I will add that the Bible is very clear on this issue of where it stands as regarding to sin.

J cribb's post is really the best explanation I've seen on here.  We all make life choices from infancy to adulthood that influence what we are today.  Why are you agnostic falconer?  Why are you atheist qon?  Why are we Christian?  We are what we chose to be.

I'll add something that is not her words, they are mine, so if you want to blast them....please refer your blasting to me.  The Bible speaks of the enemy (devil).  He is the influencer, of all things evil.  His job description is to steal, kill, and destroy.  This is the force at work in the world perverting whatever God made to be good.  If we go against God's laws, we put ourselves in a dangerous place to follow the other side.  Temptation, when yielded to once, is easier to yield to again.  We serve God, because He gives us the power to live above sin, and the temptation of the enemy. 

Of course you have to believe in the Bible...............

[Falconer02]

J cribb's post is really the best explanation I've seen on here.  We all make life choices from infancy to adulthood that influence what we are today.  Why are you agnostic falconer?  Why are you atheist qon?  Why are we Christian?  We are what we chose to be.
I'll add something that is not her words, they are mine, so if you want to blast them....please refer your blasting to me.  The Bible speaks of the enemy (devil).  He is the influencer, of all things evil.  His job description is to steal, kill, and destroy.  This is the force at work in the world perverting whatever God made to be good.  If we go against God's laws, we put ourselves in a dangerous place to follow the other side.  Temptation, when yielded to once, is easier to yield to again.  We serve God, because He gives us the power to live above sin, and the temptation of the enemy.  
Of course you have to believe in the Bible...............

Well let me just mention that using a "creation science encyclopedia" probably won't float if you're trying to convince anyone but your religious followers. The genetic variable is definately not rock-solid, but it's still intiguing. Hormones are definitely pushing as proof as studies even now have shown it has influence on sexual orientation. Social influences? Sure. The problem here is obviously the rational vs. irrational. If you're going to put something seen throughout the animal kingdom, has some positive effects on society, and above all making the individual feel comfortable with who they are against some evil cosmic mythical antagonist making you do it and making you think you're sinning and that you'll go to hell if you don't change, there's a huge problem here.

Why are you agnostic falconer?

I read the bible.

[jcribb16]

Quote from Falconer:
Well let me just mention that using a "creation science encyclopedia" probably won't float if you're trying to convince anyone but your religious followers.


Falconer, come on, now.  Your first sentence in your response already cuts down the site I researched from - that is not being fair.  I looked at several sites and this particular one just seemed to be the best one to lay out probable causes.  Right away, from the source name, you balk at it.  However, I am glad you did break it down and debate your honest opinions about the different causes/reasons.  If you had just responded that way without the cut, it would have been less discriminatory.  

[Falconer02]

Lol okay okay...my whole point in that was if you're going to try to convince somebody, you'd better try using other sources other than ones specifically pointing to your own. I reflect the George Washington thing from earlier or the whole Mein Kampf example from long ago.

[jcribb16]

Lol okay okay...my whole point in that was if you're going to try to convince somebody, you'd better try using other sources other than ones specifically pointing to your own. I reflect the George Washington thing from earlier or the whole Mein Kampf example from long ago.

Thank you, Falconer.  I did research several sites - this one just laid it out more sensible.  To be honest, when I was looking at the different sites, I didn't pay much attention to the resources until getting ready to post/quote.  Maybe I should have also used another site with it, to show fairness?  I'll try harder next time.

[SurveyMack10]

Edit: Love the example, Jdog.

In my opinion, it i a choice and it's wrong- I have a right to my opinion, you just cann't agree to disagree with anything I say because you disagree with my religion.

We've given you plenty of information on it not being a choice and how it's not an opinion since it's completely natural, and yet you still believe someone just goes "Okay I'm gay now cuz I feel like it"? There's massive amounts of logical information pointing to it not being a problem in society, that they have difficulty going against their nature (whether it be social upbringing and/or biological), and that it's seen everywhere in nature.

It has absolutely not been proven that it comes with birth. I've done my research. It's simply not been proven, maybe one day it will be and I can say my opinion was wrong, doubt it though.

[SurveyMack10]

I'd like to know where it ends then? When do we start becoming accountable for our choices instead of saying 'we were born this way'?

[jcribb16]

I'd like to know where it ends then? When do we start becoming accountable for our choices instead of saying 'we were born this way'?

Good question.....

[502mania]

I'd like to know where it ends then? When do we start becoming accountable for our choices instead of saying 'we were born this way'?

exactly. men and women complete each other. a woman is like a cd to a man's cd player. can you listen to music with no cds but two cd players?
Here's my opinion, if you want to be gay, fine. It dosen't effect me. Everyone should do what makes them happy. gay marriage shouldn't be an issue. We have bigger things to worry about than trying to stop people from expressing themselves.
All you people who take the bible literally know that it says homosexuality is an abomination. also god made adam and eve not adam and steve (i think i've used that line before).
And if someone likes animals are they born that way? you are born in no "way". can somene really argue that man and woman don't complete each other, and that a man can complete another man? no. it may FEEL that way but no. a man may understand another man better but thats what friends are for, you don't go marry the guy over it.

[Annella]

J cribb's post is really the best explanation I've seen on here.  We all make life choices from infancy to adulthood that influence what we are today.  Why are you agnostic falconer?  Why are you atheist qon?  Why are we Christian?  We are what we chose to be.
I'll add something that is not her words, they are mine, so if you want to blast them....please refer your blasting to me.  The Bible speaks of the enemy (devil).  He is the influencer, of all things evil.  His job description is to steal, kill, and destroy.  This is the force at work in the world perverting whatever God made to be good.  If we go against God's laws, we put ourselves in a dangerous place to follow the other side.  Temptation, when yielded to once, is easier to yield to again.  We serve God, because He gives us the power to live above sin, and the temptation of the enemy.  
Of course you have to believe in the Bible...............

Well let me just mention that using a "creation science encyclopedia" probably won't float if you're trying to convince anyone but your religious followers. The genetic variable is definately not rock-solid, but it's still intiguing. Hormones are definitely pushing as proof as studies even now have shown it has influence on sexual orientation. Social influences? Sure. The problem here is obviously the rational vs. irrational. If you're going to put something seen throughout the animal kingdom, has some positive effects on society, and above all making the individual feel comfortable with who they are against some evil cosmic mythical antagonist making you do it and making you think you're sinning and that you'll go to hell if you don't change, there's a huge problem here.

Why are you agnostic falconer?

I read the bible.

I had no doubt. 

[Falconer02]

It has absolutely not been proven that it comes with birth. I've done my research. It's simply not been proven, maybe one day it will be and I can say my opinion was wrong, doubt it though.

If you're saying they're not born with that attraction, I agree with you. But I will say that I strongly believe that there is something within the body that can click on during maturity- they were born with the software that installs itself later in life. Interactions with the bodies biological, psychological, and social aspects all show evidences of contributing to it, so it's perfectly natural (ie not a choice) and does not need to be deemed evil.

I'd like to know where it ends then? When do we start becoming accountable for our choices instead of saying 'we were born this way'?

I think the main variable we should focus on with this question is how it can affect others. Does a man walking into a 7/11 and killing the clerk over 100 bucks go on par with some innocent who just prefers the company of the same sex? You may accuse me of skipping the question completely, but I believe that question alone is too philosophically broad to just use in one aspect.

[shernajwine]

So forget about whether a person is genetically determined to be a killer, it's not their fault they were born that way but, it doesn't matter because killing is wrong. But gays, they don't hurt anyone so they are allowed to be what they were born to be.

You guys are picking and choosing what gets to be defined as choice and what isn't. If homosexuality isn't a choice because it's in their genes, that fits in perfectly with your physicalist mindset! Great! But now you have to turn it on yourself and admit you don't have a choice either. You don't get to make choices about anything because your genes said so haha!