Religion and Homosexuality

[Annella]

Sorry it took so long to post.

[SurveyMack10]

I can't be the only one who doesn't agree with the lifestyle.  California's majority voted NO against it on Prop 8, and California has a hugh community of gays.  Everybody thought it would pass.....it did not.  

Only because of disgusting Mormon funding...geez, get with it.  But you are right there are still a whole *bleep*-ton of bigoted, ignorant, arrogant gay haters out there.  Every time I read the comments on an article concerning gays, I am appalled for humanity.  

You people will be so ashamed in a few years when being prejudiced against gays will be just the same as being prejudiced against blacks today.

How is that even close to the same? Being gay is a lifestyle and a choice. Being black is a skin color that someone is born with. No one ever said we are prejudiced against gays, we just disagree with their lifestyle, sort of like you disgree with ours as Christians.

[shernajwine]

What is the true definition of "wrong" from a reasonable perspective

This is you asking a question from a perspective that the bible and it's teachings are unreasonable. You question is biased.

And since you believe everyone fashions their own morals without a moral law giver, why can't Christians fashion their own morals and say that being gay is wrong? Since Christianity has the largest following of people in the whole world....what was it you said?? Majority gets the vote??

Quote from me
with morality, majority doesn't matter.

Quote from you
Yes it does.

Well, that settles it, Christians are the majority and we get the vote of what is wrong and right!

[queenofnines]

Wow, you dare to BOLD your words to people who do not approve of gays (but they are people that other people like as a person) and yet you BOLD your opinions to Christians for what we believe.  That is really backward and prideful of you. 

Uh, why are you so offended that I bolded that?!  Mark my words, unless something totally crazy and horrible happens (like Sharia Law takes over), it's inevitable that gays WILL have all the same rights as heteros within the next 10-20 years.

Why?  Because it's unjust discrimination.  What someone does in their bedroom is of NO CONSEQUENCE to *your* life.  Therefore, criticizing someone for being gay in 15 years will be a societal TABOO.  It's EXACTLY like black discrimination, Mack, because blacks were once considered inferior like gays are today.

[shernajwine]

because blacks were once considered inferior like gays are today

who said gays are inferior? it's not a sin to be black, there's a difference between saying someone is committing sin and saying someone is inferior because of skin color.

[queenofnines]

You both err because you don't know the redeeming power of God.

I'm pretty sure all of the atheists/agnostics I've met on here were once religious.  So we DO know the propaganda you speak of...it's just now being on the other side, we know the tricks on how it works.

I've personally seen God heal all kinds of sicknesses (even Cancer) in my travels

Everyone knows cancer can go into remission.  No god required.

The doctor has no explanation except a miracle took place.  Look it up on the Net.  Surely jordandog, being in the medical field, you have come across this?

Surely she has, as she's already explained before that there are some things that medical science can't explain YET and that the body is very resilient when it comes to survival.  Again, no god required, just better technology to understand things.

When someone needs surgery to have a growth removed, and they are prayed for the night before, and the growth disappears.....what would you call that?

The surgeon taking it out?  lol  Even a fictional show like Grey's Anatomy can show you that.  

When a deaf and dumb person (from birth) gets prayed for, and in a matter of 30 seconds hears and talks....what is that?

Again, these things are not unheard of, especially if he's being encouraged.  What about the millions of people who get prayed for and NOTHING happens (or they die)?  Yeah, you're statistics aren't so great here.

When a Heroin addict comes for deliverance (we prayed for him), and they are delivered with no withdrawls, and no future cravings, what is that?

A person finally having the confidence to get their sh*t together.  Plenty of people quit bad habits cold-turkey without consulting an invisible parent every day.

When a gay person comes for deliverance from the gay lifestyle, and God delivers them, and heals the AIDS ravishing their body, so it disappears.  Are they faking?  After years?

Me thinks you didn't read what jordandog wrote.  

They knew who He was and what He did.....but still crucified Him.

Obviously he wasn't very convincing.    You realize that if David Blaine lived 200 years ago, you might be a Blainist?

It tells us we can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.  Do you believe it?  Thousands upon thousands have received this gift, but most religions will tell you that it was only for the Apostles, and not for us today.  I got it at 19.  It was a supernatural experience.  People are still getting it.

The "gift" of speaking in gibberish isn't going to impress anyone who hasn't been indoctrinated into it.  Whoops, there I go being insulting again.

I love you, and want you to believe.  Please, there is no push to convert you.  Just to give you some truthful information so you have the knowledge.  After you make your inquiries, do whatever you want with it.  You won't be pushed into anything.....I give you my promise.

Uh-oh.  And here I thought we were just discussing things and encouraging thought.  Nope, some of y'all really are out to get us.  GOOD LUCK!

[walksalone11]

I can't be the only one who doesn't agree with the lifestyle.  California's majority voted NO against it on Prop 8, and California has a hugh community of gays.  Everybody thought it would pass.....it did not.  

Only because of disgusting Mormon funding...geez, get with it.  But you are right there are still a whole *bleep*-ton of bigoted, ignorant, arrogant gay haters out there.  Every time I read the comments on an article concerning gays, I am appalled for humanity.  

You people will be so ashamed in a few years when being prejudiced against gays will be just the same as being prejudiced against blacks today.

 

There's that word hate again, when that word came from your camp....not me.  I do not hate gays, different races, murderers, etc.  

It is very revealing that you would include "different races" in the same context as you do murderers, your words not mine.....

I knew from about your second post on this board, but for the ones who didn't....you just outted yourself as the racist homophobic intolerant bigot that you are.

Your words not mine......

[Falconer02]

I would love to have an answer as to why gays who do believe and who do accept the Bible (they are out there, contrary to what some might think the religious zealots have not driven them ALL from their faith), just aren't good enough to be 'cured'. How about the innocent babies born HIV+ from the get go? Talk about heartbreaking.

:-(

You both err because you don't know the redeeming power of God.

And you err just because you seem incapable of basic reasoning with practically everything but your own beliefs. It's like the bible is a parasitic attachment that zombifies reasoning. "Always disregard the facts. Let's stick our heads into an aged book to find our impenetrable answer."

Look it up on the Net.  Surely jordandog, being in the medical field, you have come across this?

Sure. Even I have in a sense. I know this isn't the best example, but my family and I took in a horriblly abused mutt that had been starved, had mange, and had a bad case of stomach cancer. The vet estimated she had between 2-3 months to live. We fixed her up, my dad cooked her food every night, we socialized her big time, I was her best friend (seriously, I had never seen such a loyal dog before), and she was amazingly happy with us. She lived for 2 more years and I'm happy to report she wasn't in much pain till the final few days. It wasn't god that magically healed her for so long. It was the reason Queenofnines stated- we helped get her *bleep* together! We made her life positive. Hey, if the concept of some loving god does this for someone, more power to them. But I'm putting my money on the power of positive thought in general. No anti-gay god required.

[SurveyMack10]

Wow, you dare to BOLD your words to people who do not approve of gays (but they are people that other people like as a person) and yet you BOLD your opinions to Christians for what we believe.  That is really backward and prideful of you. 

Uh, why are you so offended that I bolded that?!  Mark my words, unless something totally crazy and horrible happens (like Sharia Law takes over), it's inevitable that gays WILL have all the same rights as heteros within the next 10-20 years.

Why?  Because it's unjust discrimination.  What someone does in their bedroom is of NO CONSEQUENCE to *your* life.  Therefore, criticizing someone for being gay in 15 years will be a societal TABOO.  It's EXACTLY like black discrimination, Mack, because blacks were once considered inferior like gays are today.

No one said they wouldn't have the same rights.

Being gay and being black are not even in the same category.

People discriminate against others for EVERYTHING not just sexual preference and skin color.

Do we have gays as slaves? Do we have separate restaurants for gays? Separate schools? You're stretching it.

[SurveyMack10]

I can't be the only one who doesn't agree with the lifestyle.  California's majority voted NO against it on Prop 8, and California has a hugh community of gays.  Everybody thought it would pass.....it did not.  

Only because of disgusting Mormon funding...geez, get with it.  But you are right there are still a whole *bleep*-ton of bigoted, ignorant, arrogant gay haters out there.  Every time I read the comments on an article concerning gays, I am appalled for humanity.  

You people will be so ashamed in a few years when being prejudiced against gays will be just the same as being prejudiced against blacks today.

 

There's that word hate again, when that word came from your camp....not me.  I do not hate gays, different races, murderers, etc.  

It is very revealing that you would include "different races" in the same context as you do murderers, your words not mine.....

I knew from about your second post on this board, but for the ones who didn't....you just outted yourself as the racist homophobic intolerant bigot that you are.

Your words not mine......

I'm pretty sure that was twisted a bit. She mentioned gays because that's what were talking about. She mentioned different races because queen brought it up. She mentioned murderers to prove that ur religion show love to everyone no matter what the sin is (being gay or being a murderer).

[Annella]

I can't be the only one who doesn't agree with the lifestyle.  California's majority voted NO against it on Prop 8, and California has a hugh community of gays.  Everybody thought it would pass.....it did not.  

Only because of disgusting Mormon funding...geez, get with it.  But you are right there are still a whole *bleep*-ton of bigoted, ignorant, arrogant gay haters out there.  Every time I read the comments on an article concerning gays, I am appalled for humanity.  

You people will be so ashamed in a few years when being prejudiced against gays will be just the same as being prejudiced against blacks today.

 

There's that word hate again, when that word came from your camp....not me.  I do not hate gays, different races, murderers, etc.  

It is very revealing that you would include "different races" in the same context as you do murderers, your words not mine.....

I knew from about your second post on this board, but for the ones who didn't....you just outted yourself as the racist homophobic intolerant bigot that you are.

Your words not mine......

I'm pretty sure that was twisted a bit. She mentioned gays because that's what were talking about. She mentioned different races because queen brought it up. She mentioned murderers to prove that ur religion show love to everyone no matter what the sin is (being gay or being a murderer).

Thanks Mackenzie.  Straight and true is what you are.  Everybody can come to their own conclusions.  There's no mystery.

Just got up.  Slept so good and long.  Now for some roast beef......life is good.

[jcribb16]

Wow, you dare to BOLD your words to people who do not approve of gays (but they are people that other people like as a person) and yet you BOLD your opinions to Christians for what we believe.  That is really backward and prideful of you. 

Uh, why are you so offended that I bolded that?!  Mark my words, unless something totally crazy and horrible happens (like Sharia Law takes over), it's inevitable that gays WILL have all the same rights as heteros within the next 10-20 years.

Why?  Let me re-phrase it to show you why:  "What someone does as a Christian in their personal life, is of no consequence to you."; " You will be so ashamed one day that you were so prejudiced against Christians."  Now, I realize that we are only speaking of gays/religion in here, but the same thing applies to Christians/non-believers and the way Christians are spoken against, and made to look foolish.  Christians are people and citizens, just as gays are, and need the same respect that you seem to lavish more upon gays.

[Falconer02]

Christians are people and citizens, just as gays are, and need the same respect that you seem to lavish more upon gays.

Gays don't have the same rights that you take for granted though. Should the major force with bad b+w reasoning that's also keeping them from being equal be treated with the utmost respect?

[jcribb16]

Christians are people and citizens, just as gays are, and need the same respect that you seem to lavish more upon gays.

Gays don't have the same rights that you take for granted though. Should the major force with bad b+w reasoning that's also keeping them from being equal be treated with the utmost respect?

I see what you are saying Falconer.  I am kind of responding to her personal remark and trying to get her to look at it more objectively when it comes to Christians and her attitude toward them.  I know gays don't appear to have the same rights, in one respect, but in another, there are many gays that have the same rights as others and a lot of people don't even realize their lifestyle is what it is.  It's sort of like not saying you are gay, so you can be treated the same, as well as the Christian is all of the sudden treated different when they reveal that fact.  She makes a big stand for the gays' rights and totally disregards the Christians' ideas and beliefs.  So you see, it was more of a personal remark from me to her and not a major aim to all in general.

[jordandog]

Annella,
Sorry it took me so long to answer your post about this. I have run on no sleep and too much work the last week - actually slept for 9 straight hours which is unheard of for me. I also spent quite a bit of time doing some checking on things, which is in what I wrote below.

Thanks, but no thanks as to the offer of contacting people with knowledge of God healing some from AIDS. I am sure that they all would in fact tell me they have seen it happen and what am I supposed to say or do? Tell them they are full of it and inform them that, by rights, they should furnish medically sound documentation to all associations across the world? That would certainly NOT be my style to do so, no matter how much I might want to. Since you wrote that, I have made many phone calls of my own to friends/colleagues across the US and also gone to online sites of every association I am a paying and/or registered member of - AMA, CDC, AACN, AACR, WHO, AEGIS(the AIDS Global Base), quite a few more, and have thrown the question out there after searching for it on my own - “Do any of you know of, have documentation of an AIDS patient being cured through prayer?” The answer so far (after some laughing and asking me if I was serious, drunk, or self-prescribing:P) has been a resounding “NO, as if you wouldn’t know about it if I had?!” I said in another discussion, which queen mentioned, this which I found and copied to put here in case you didn’t see it: I have mentioned that I have seen plenty of things happen with patients that cannot be explained and probably never will. It is at those times I actually say, either to myself or out loud, "That was a miracle." The difference now, as opposed to when I fully believed, is that I am once again amazed by the sheer will of the human body and mind to survive. Not by a supernatural act of a divine agent.

They were NOT in the scope of AIDS disappearing. There are probably thousands of surgeons who have gone in to remove some type of tumor or anomalous growth, only to find it was NOT what they thought, not in the area they thought, and even not seeing it period. That is BEFORE the advancements we now have in every form of diagnostics such as imaging of every kind imaginable. There are also many less than stellar docs out there. They may use inferior/older testing means, interpret a blood clot a as a ‘tumor’, go in to remove, and it’s gone - because the body reabsorbed it, but there will still be evidence present to suggest that. There are any number of situations where things appear really ‘wonky’, but they are explainable. When they aren’t, as I said, it is admitted that we/they do NOT know what happened. There are thousands of stories out there from Third World countries of ‘miracles’ abounding. I won’t go into it all here, but let’s just say 99.9% of those are due to ignorance and/or misinterpretation. There are times when those stories become very dangerous also. Right now, there is a yet another doctor in Africa who is claiming to be curing AIDS patients left and right. The result is that people are now refusing meds and treatment and I am sure I don’t need to tell you how irresponsible and dangerous on a worldwide level THAT is. I hope someday to be able to write or say it's been discovered and to be able to administer a cure for AIDS, not to mention a host of other illnesses. You know what else? IF any of those proven cures came as the result of some divine intervention, so be it. I don’t care where they come from, I just want them to come.