Religion and Homosexuality

[amyrouse]

Different translations of Romans 1:26-27

Romans 1:26-27 (New International Version)
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Romans 1:26-27 (King James Version)
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:26-27 (English Standard Version)
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

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The verses are condemning acts that are unnatural to a person's nature.  This does not necessarily mean that homosexuality is unnatural; but that they were acting in ways that were unnatural to their own nature.  Many gay people say that they were born gay.  I have known many gay people that definitely seem to embody that statement.  I have a friend who says she knew she was gay long before she had any sexual inclination; she just knew she was different.  She believes that g-d helped her come to this realization, and that g-d loves her and wants her to be happy.  Recently, she and her partner of over a decade had a dedication ceremony in a church and they consider themselves married.  I could not imagine heterosexuality to be anything but unnatural to either of them, and would be ashamed of anyone who tried to claim that they were sinning just by loving each other and being true to their natural inclinations.

[shernajwine]

Those verses are pretty clear that homosexuality is considered unnatural in God's eyes. 

[amyrouse]

Those verses are pretty clear that homosexuality is considered unnatural in God's eyes. 

It says the actions they took are contrary to nature.  Your nature is heterosexuality.  So, being with a woman would be unnatural to you.

The friend I mentioned in my post...she is homosexual.  To have sexual relations with a male would be contrary to her nature.

The women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.  The men abandoned their own natural relations with women for lusts for men.  It does not say, however, that the only natural relations are those between men and women.

[shernajwine]

You making a separate category of people that the scripture doesn't specify.  You're saying that this scripture refers to men whose nature was to be with men, were working that which is unseemly by being with a woman!

Men committed indecent acts with other men
men with men working that which is unseemly
men committing shameless acts with men

This clearly states that men being with men is not ok with God.

Women changed the natural use into that which is against nature

It doesn't say "against their own nature". It simply says nature. God created Eve for Adam. He created woman for man and commanded the man to love his wife.
God did not create the rectum for sexual use, this is not it's natural purpose. Hetero or homosexual *bleep* sex is considered unnatural in God's eyes.

This is just an example of how people try to interpret scripture to justify themselves. Homosexuals, are no less important to God, he doesn't hate them. Heterosexuals are not better or superior to gay people, because heterosexuals are not sin free. However, saying that homosexuality is wrong is a moral judgment that Christians have a right to make based on what scripture says.

[ButterflyWings]

I read all replies on this topic shook my head and was a little disgusted..Sorry but you are born Gay it is not like you wake up one day and say hey I think I am gay and decide to go against what all religious people say god thinks is wrong.(which is bs)Sorry if there is a god and we are supposedly his children(bs again) he would love us no matter what..You may feel it is unnatural a abomination or whatever that's your feelings or I am sorry your gods feelings..I chose to think for myself not have a entity I can not see or truly know what they expect of me..And in turn have some man tell me what is expected think not..

I created my children,I am responsible for who they become in society,not some holy spirit I need to force in their life's to make them fear what their minds may think..My children will grow up with NO prejudices against any human..Or fear of the unknown sin..


I also wanted to say some made some very very good points..I just hate reading some replies and feeling like I am being force feed religion because it HAS to be right..Its not right to single out a human for their sexual preference,color,race,beliefs non beliefs,so if this god does that I want no part..

Someone told me they believed in heaven all is forgiven even rapists,murderers and people who hurt children..I am sorry I do not want to be in this heaven with my rapist or the person who killed my best friend in the NAME OF GOD FOR BEING GAY!!

Sorry it really hits a nerve religion and homosexuality...I watched my friend die in the name of god..For being who she always was since achildhood..For loving a human of her same sex..Sick!! In court this wasteful person had the nerve to say put me to death I was doing gods work!!

Alright I need to walk away now!!

On this issue you obviously know where I stand!!

[amyrouse]

You making a separate category of people that the scripture doesn't specify.  You're saying that this scripture refers to men whose nature was to be with men, were working that which is unseemly by being with a woman!

You claim I am using scripture to suit my own needs.  I am saying that in this scripture, there is room for interpretation.  The scripture does not say "a woman was with another woman which is against human nature" but "women exchanged their natural relations for other ones."  In fact, in the entire chapter, it says nothing about a woman sleeping with a specific gender.

It says the men abandoned natural relations with women, not that the only natural relations men have are with women.  These men, in this verse, had a nature to be with women and they abandoned their own nature to be with women by sleeping with those they were not naturally inclined to sleep with.  This verse could actually be interpreted to say that by sleeping with someone who it is not in your nature to sleep with that you are sinning.  I am not trying to manipulate the words; just showing that there are possibilities for multiple interpretations.

If we are all g-d's children, why would g-d create someone with an inclination that is against g-d's wishes for us?  Why would g-d knowingly want us to defy what g-d create us to be, and wish for us to go through some kind of religious sexual training so we could have sex "the right way"? 

And if homosexuals are defying what g-d wishes for us to be, why would they do that?  They sometimes alienate their families, friends, co-workers.  They have to fear going out and being who they really are because someone inevitably will condemn them for being who they are.  When bricks are thrown through their windows, they fear the police will do nothing and their neighbors will stand idly by because of their sexuality.  If they are religious, they worry more so than heterosexuals that they are doomed for hellfire.  They have to hide who they are if they want to work because many employers will not hire homosexuals for fear of appearing to be promoting a lifestyle that so many have deemed immoral.  They can't marry the ones they love; many are even denied the right to be with their partners when they are hospitalized. 

Who would choose that?  Why would any rational person capable of making choices choose a life so fraught with discrimination and misery?

[amyrouse]

Concerning Sodom and Gomorrah... the acts themselves were not condemned...

Yes they were, they were having sex all over the place...talk about disgusting, we are not wild animals.

Have you ever been to a club, the stuff that goes on in there is disgusting.

Women act like sluts because I know what the message is they deliver...in music videos, these chicks are nasty....

Have you read the story?

[amyrouse]

Concerning Sodom and Gomorrah... the acts themselves were not condemned...

Yes they were, they were having sex all over the place...talk about disgusting, we are not wild animals.

Have you ever been to a club, the stuff that goes on in there is disgusting.

Women act like sluts because I know what the message is they deliver...in music videos, these chicks are nasty....

Have you read the story?

Yeah and God destroyed the city because of the ACTS

I suggest you re-read it.  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=KJV

...and then read this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm

[amyrouse]

For the sins of their inhabitants Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are mentioned in other places, in association with sins of omission and commission, and of the heart as well as the flesh, and is often used as an example of judgment of the wicked

Show us, without using wikipedia preferably, how Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexuality instead of wicked acts against your neighbor/guests.

[queenofnines]

Is there a point to be gay? It isn't like you can have babies.

Uh, the point is to be with who you truly love, not who society wants you to love.  And the baby argument is just pointless, mainly due to overpopulation, but also because gay couples can and DO have their own children (it's called donor sperm and surrogacy!!).

[shernajwine]

If we are all g-d's children, why would g-d create someone with an inclination that is against g-d's wishes for us

God did not create people with an inclination to be gay or do anything else he considers wrong.....he created people to be able to choose what is right or choose what is wrong. I realize that gay people suffer internally when they believe in God and want to serve him but think they are going to hell. I am not God and I cannot judge people. I can say I know that engaging in homosexual activity is a sin but it's no different than the sin of lying...something that I have done in my life.

Only God can judge a persons heart because He is the only one that knows a persons heart. I don't believe people are born gay, however if a person lives that kind of lifestyle but yet they love God with all the heart mind soul and strength, I am confident that God is not going to damn that person to hell because of a struggle with sin. I don't believe I am damned to hell because of my struggle with sin....I don't struggle with sexual immorality but I still sin.

My pastor gave a good example of how God separates the sinner from the sin. In the old testament, when a person sinned and brought their unblemished lamb for sacrifice....the appointed man of God (priest or what have you) would examine the lamb to make sure it was perfect. The priest did not examine the person bringing the lamb to see what kind of sin they had committed or how bad it was....he only looked at the lamb. That lambs blood covered the sin of that person and they were forgiven. As a matter of fact, that lamb covered their sins for a whole year! It covered future sins!!

I know you are Jewish but bear with me here

So for Christians...Jesus is that Lamb. Jesus blood has already been spilt for remission of our sins. When we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts (not condemns but convicts) so that we realize we need to repent. But when God sees our hearts it is already covered by that blood and he doesn't see the sin he sees the forgiven sinner. So it is the same with a homosexual person who has accepted Christ and loves God. God does not see their sin, he sees their heart. Once they get past feeling guilty about their sin, and they continue to seek a closer relationship with God, God will deliver them from a mindset that is telling them they are gay. I have already seen this happen.

[amyrouse]

Show us, without using wikipedia preferably, how Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexuality instead of wicked acts against your neighbor/guests.

I am sure it wasn't just one sin but many. I reference places so you can can no longer debate with me but take it up with material elsewhere.

I wasn't debating with you.  I was asking if you actually knew what you were debating about by reading it yourself instead of relying upon others to tell you what to think.  And I have researched, as evidenced by the sites that I have linked, which do not happen to be wikipedia.   

So for Christians...Jesus is that Lamb. Jesus blood has already been spilt for remission of our sins. When we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts (not condemns but convicts) so that we realize we need to repent. But when God sees our hearts it is already covered by that blood and he doesn't see the sin he sees the forgiven sinner. So it is the same with a homosexual person who has accepted Christ and loves God. God does not see their sin, he sees their heart. Once they get past feeling guilty about their sin, and they continue to seek a closer relationship with God, God will deliver them from a mindset that is telling them they are gay. I have already seen this happen.

This sort of thinking is part of what hurts homosexuals, as I have referenced in my other posts.

Gay people have a defect in their brain.

Sigh.  This type of statement is completely harmful and what makes people wish to not participate in discussion with you.  You make a cavalier statement and then come back with a copy and pasted post that doesn't include any of your own personal thought.  No one knows where you stand.

[shernajwine]

Quote
So for Christians...Jesus is that Lamb. Jesus blood has already been spilt for remission of our sins. When we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts (not condemns but convicts) so that we realize we need to repent. But when God sees our hearts it is already covered by that blood and he doesn't see the sin he sees the forgiven sinner. So it is the same with a homosexual person who has accepted Christ and loves God. God does not see their sin, he sees their heart. Once they get past feeling guilty about their sin, and they continue to seek a closer relationship with God, God will deliver them from a mindset that is telling them they are gay. I have already seen this happen.

This sort of thinking is part of what hurts homosexuals, as I have referenced in my other posts

It doesn't hurt them! On the contrary for those who are conflicted in worshiping a God they love but fear will damn them.....it gives them hope! I'm not saying it gives them hope of NOT being gay because obviously that isn't their goal...however it is a natural result of seeking after God with all your heart! God is not looking at their sin and condemning them.....he is looking at a child that he loves with all his heart! How does knowing that God loves you despite your sin hurt you?!

This is important because this is not just for homosexuals but for everyone. STOP fearing hell and accept that God loves you, seek Him. While you are seeking Him, He brings changes in your life....you begin to love what God loves and hate what He hates! This is the course of a believers life. STOP trying to NOT sin, START trying to seek God with all your heart. And for Christians who say God hates fags....YOUR WRONG!! GOD HATES SIN..........HE LOVES PEOPLE!! ALL PEOPLE!!

Listen, for the person who started this thread. Stop worrying about WHY being gay is wrong, don't let ANYONE try to tell you what God thinks about gay people. Love your gay friends, that's what your supposed to do! For gay people who have faith in God but are worried about what other people say about their lifestyle...STOP WORRYING. Continue loving God and let Him work in your heart what is right and what is wrong. Be who you are, and just continue loving and searching after HIM!

EVERYONE HAS SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD!! Hell is NOT for "bad people" it is for those that reject God. If we have all sinned and we believe at least SOME people make it to heaven, it's safe to assume that SINNERS WILL GO TO HEAVEN. Only those who reject God and salvation go to hell!

[amyrouse]

It doesn't hurt them! On the contrary for those who are conflicted in worshiping a God they love but fear will damn them.....it gives them hope! I'm not saying it gives them hope of NOT being gay because obviously that isn't their goal...however it is a natural result of seeking after God with all your heart! God is not looking at their sin and condemning them.....he is looking at a child that he loves with all his heart! How does knowing that God loves you despite your sin hurt you?!

This is important because this is not just for homosexuals but for everyone. STOP fearing hell and accept that God loves you, seek Him. While you are seeking Him, He brings changes in your life....you begin to love what God loves and hate what He hates! This is the course of a believers life. STOP trying to NOT sin, START trying to seek God with all your heart. And for Christians who say God hates fags....YOUR WRONG!! GOD HATES SIN..........HE LOVES PEOPLE!! ALL PEOPLE!!

I think we may just have to agree to disagree here.  Their sexuality isn't just a sin; it is who they are.  By telling a gay person to hate the sin, we are in essence telling them to hate themselves.  I do have to say, though, that I believe you are sincere when you say what you say.  I don't see you as the type to condemn someone, but to love them and attempt to help someone that needs help, even though I believe that in this instance, the help is not needed.  I don't view homosexuality as sinful.   

Yeah I know...it's isn't like being gay is gonna put you in hell...chill people....there is only one unforgivable sin and we have been over that.

Marie...you really need to take a break and really take a good solid look at the things you are saying here.  Use that IQ you claim you have, because you are not really adding anything significant to this topic.  It may be easy for you to say "chill people", but you're not the one that is being attacked over your sexuality. 

My wish for you is that you start showing more compassion in what you say instead of the self-righteousness that comes across in your posts. 

[amyrouse]

I will show compassion when others show compassion for me.

That is such a loaded statement.  I cannot even begin to convey what is wrong with it.  It is taking every ounce of my patience not to call you names here.  You need to open your eyes and ears, honey.