Religion and Homosexuality

[shernajwine]

I believe I stated in my post that the fruit did not give them knowledge of evil, it was the act of disobedience. How were Adam and Eve going to make a choice to choose God if they had nothing to choose from?? God wants his creation to CHOOSE him. Did he know that they would "fail the test?" Yes, because God certainly is omniscient So why create them at all? Why even create the angel Lucifer whom God knew would fall? Well, those are valid questions and are a little difficult to understand.

The only conclusion we can come to in view of scriptural understanding is that God’s purpose was to create a world in which His glory could be manifest in all its fullness. The glory of God  is the overarching goal of creation. In fact, it is the overarching goal of everything He does. The universe was created to display God’s glory (Psalm 19:1), and the wrath of God is revealed against those who fail to glorify God (Romans 1:23). Our sin causes us to fall short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23), and in the new heaven and new earth, the glory of God is what will provide light (Revelation 21:23). The glory of God is manifest when His attributes are on perfect display, and the story of redemption is part of that.

[amyrouse]

I believe I stated in my post that the fruit did not give them knowledge of evil, it was the act of disobedience. How were Adam and Eve going to make a choice to choose God if they had nothing to choose from?? God wants his creation to CHOOSE him. Did he know that they would "fail the test?" Yes, because God certainly is omniscient So why create them at all? Why even create the angel Lucifer whom God knew would fall? Well, those are valid questions and are a little difficult to understand.

The only conclusion we can come to in view of scriptural understanding is that God’s purpose was to create a world in which His glory could be manifest in all its fullness. The glory of God  is the overarching goal of creation. In fact, it is the overarching goal of everything He does. The universe was created to display God’s glory (Psalm 19:1), and the wrath of God is revealed against those who fail to glorify God (Romans 1:23). Our sin causes us to fall short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23), and in the new heaven and new earth, the glory of God is what will provide light (Revelation 21:23). The glory of God is manifest when His attributes are on perfect display, and the story of redemption is part of that.

So...you're saying g-d created the world in order for us to worship g-d?  Sounds kinda shallow to me.  I don't feel that way about g-d, and I can't see g-d creating us for any reason other than to love us and watch us grow, as any parent would.  Still a bit of a selfish motive...but I feel that g-d's love is for us and not for "I am."

[amyrouse]

Meat Made Us Smarter

...and learning how to cook it made us human

Sorry, vegetarians: Humans have meat to thank for the evolutionary changes that made us the large-brained tool-users we are today. Some 2.3 million years ago, our ancestors made the jump from gnawing all day on leaves and nuts to scavenging carcasses. This, anthropologists say, was the magic moment when our brains got enough energy to start growing to their current size—largely because we no longer had to maintain a giant gut capable of processing all those raw leaves.

From there came the invention of tools—"external teeth" that meant we didn't need big sharp teeth like other predators—and fire for cooking, which made meat easier to digest and squeeze nutrition from, meaning we no longer had to spend hours a day chewing like chimps do. Cooking also taught us to share labor and brought people together for conversation in the evening, making us even more human

http://current.com/news/92584625_meat-made-us-smarter.htm

OK...you got me.  Good job.

I like the evolution theme behind your response.

[shernajwine]

So...you're saying g-d created the world in order for us to worship g-d?  Sounds kinda shallow to me.  I don't feel that way about g-d, and I can't see g-d creating us for any reason other than to love us and watch us grow, as any parent would.  Still a bit of a selfish motive...but I feel that g-d's love is for us and not for "I am."

I'm saying God created us to make a choice to love Him. He created us with a free will, and therefore knew that men would fail because we were made with the ability to choose.....everyone is not going to choose God. But there is a bigger plan that God had in creating us. But the love is mutual and there is nothing shallow about it, not in the least. God's love for us goes far and above what we can even comprehend....and yes God desires worship and quite deservedly I might add.

[shernajwine]

Meat Made Us Smarter

...and learning how to cook it made us human

Sorry, vegetarians: Humans have meat to thank for the evolutionary changes that made us the large-brained tool-users we are today. Some 2.3 million years ago, our ancestors made the jump from gnawing all day on leaves and nuts to scavenging carcasses. This, anthropologists say, was the magic moment when our brains got enough energy to start growing to their current size—largely because we no longer had to maintain a giant gut capable of processing all those raw leaves.

From there came the invention of tools—"external teeth" that meant we didn't need big sharp teeth like other predators—and fire for cooking, which made meat easier to digest and squeeze nutrition from, meaning we no longer had to spend hours a day chewing like chimps do. Cooking also taught us to share labor and brought people together for conversation in the evening, making us even more human

http://current.com/news/92584625_meat-made-us-smarter.htm

OK...you got me.  Good job.

I like the evolution theme behind your response.

yes the second evolutionary type of response i have seen tonight! i think marie converted!

[amyrouse]

So...you're saying g-d created the world in order for us to worship g-d?  Sounds kinda shallow to me.  I don't feel that way about g-d, and I can't see g-d creating us for any reason other than to love us and watch us grow, as any parent would.  Still a bit of a selfish motive...but I feel that g-d's love is for us and not for "I am."

What is wrong with you people? Are you that unhappy that you were given life? I thank God everyday for giving me life and creating our planet and the universe....I am so happy he gave me a chance to experience: Love, friendship and Pizza 

Far from unhappy with it...I am grateful.  But I also believe it is important to question and learn.  Call it playing the devil's advocate, or call it a discussion and exchange of ideas.  Correct me if I am wrong, shernajwine, but I think we've had an interesting, and (while it may have been a bit heated) civil exchange of ideas that made us look at our own beliefs and dig a little deeper into what we believe and why.  Shernajwine gave an excellent response to my statement above.  She has been studying and researching her faith well.   

And I hope that when you say "you people" that you cannot be referencing the Jews (since I am Jewish, and one of g-d's chosen people).

[shernajwine]

Correct me if I am wrong, shernajwine, but I think we've had an interesting, and (while it may have been a bit heated) civil exchange of ideas that made us look at our own beliefs and dig a little deeper into what we believe and why

Absolutely! There is nothing wrong and absolutely everything right with searching for Truth 

[amyrouse]

And I hope that when you say "you people" that you cannot be referencing the Jews (since I am Jewish, and one of g-d's chosen people).

Man...no, people that say all this bad stuff about what God has done as if they are unhappy to be living.

I think we're all just searching for answers to things we do not understand.  A rebellious teen may say negative things about their parents, but that doesn't mean they don't love them or that they are unhappy to be living.

I apologize if it seems that I am being harsh on you.  I just feel that when posting in a forum, where tone and intention can be misconstrued, that it is important to be careful with what you type.

[amyrouse]

the Jews (since I am Jewish, and one of g-d's chosen people).

Chosen for what? What does I am Jewish and one of God's chosen people mean? That everyone else goes to hell?


I would think, a black person born in Africa could be Jewish if he chooses that as a religion. As well as a chinese person born in America.

Have you read any of my other posts?  Do you know the term "G-d's chosen people"?  It is in the Bible...you will come across it soon.

No...I don't believe in hell.  The Jews have been persecuted, and therefore tend to not proselytize the way other religions do.  Jesus was Jewish.  I suggest you learn a little about the faith.

And you don't make a simple "choice" to be Jewish.  It is a long process, and is a struggle.  At the forefront of that struggle is the quest for knowledge.  Try going back over the discussion Annella and I had over in "Favorite Bible Quotes."

[amyrouse]

Do you know the term "G-d's chosen people"?

Yes I know the term...in fact my step-dad, who is atheist had once told me he doesn't know why anyone other than Jews believe in God because only they are chosen and go to heaven or something like that...

If that is the case, that's all it takes me to dismiss God of the bible and all because that is some 

Then can you understand how some who have heard that the only pre-requisite for heaven is to believe in Jesus can be frustrated and want to dismiss religion as  ?  Being Jewish is not a ticket into heaven; and it is not the only path to heaven, should heaven exist.  Being chosen is a great responsibility, and not one to take lightly, as we have centuries of oppression on our backs, and we still deal with it today.  We also have the smaller offenses ("Yeah, I went to that yard sale and I Jewed him down from five to three...") to contend with. 

The biggie, though, I would think for you as a Christian would be the fact that Jesus was Jewish.  He lived and died as Jewish.  It was a major part of who he was.  I may reject the theorem that Jesus was the Messiah; however, you believing he was the Messiah should make you want to learn more about the religion.

And your step-dad doesn't know what he's talking about.  Somewhere along the lines he got his info mixed up.   

[carolinagirlmom]

  It is written in the Bible that gays are against God's wishes . God is perfect - he created all things but he did not make peple gay -read your Bible

[queenofnines]

It takes a small minded person to believe that they can fit God into their mental finite box, you can't try to define God by the natural world.

Oh yes we can!  As I've mentioned before, this type of statement of "we can't understand!" is an excuse.  It's useless (and even harmful) to believe in things that have no good evidence (like personal gods).  Not interacting with the natural world is the same as not existing, for all intensive purposes!

As Sam Harris says, science would be a completely ridiculous pursuit if the supernatural co-existed with the natural.  This is because the universe is governed by STRICT physical laws; if these laws were to be interrupted or interfered with by something "spiritual" (non-physical), we could no longer trust that the atoms in ANYTHING would remain stable...we could no longer predict anything, test anything, NONE OF OUR TECHNOLOGY WOULD WORK.  But y'all don't think about these things, do you?

There is logical evidence in this world that points to a creator but God himself is not logical and when you try to define Him by the natural world you will fall very short of who and what God is and what He is capable of doing.

Where is this logical evidence?  It sure is convenient to pull an invisible dragon a la Carl Sagan for your god.  http://thinkingasaprofession.blogspot.com/2009/01/dragon-in-my-garage-by-carl-sagan.html

Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.

So Jesus isn't coming for many billions of years? 

If God's purpose is to have relationships with free will beings in a future creation, then there must be a means by which these beings can make a choice to enter or not enter into this relationship. The means by which we make this choice is exactly the message of the Bible.

It isn't a "choice", though, it's freaking BLACKMAIL.  Worship me or burn  Sorry, Xtians, you messed that one up in terms of getting me to actually take you seriously.  This scare tactic may have worked on primitive peoples thousands of years ago, but we wear our big girl panties now in the 21st century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wSjJAsrAk&playnext=1&videos=0T8CSbAtFGo

[queenofnines]

The only conclusion we can come to in view of scriptural understanding is that God’s purpose was to create a world in which His glory could be manifest in all its fullness. The glory of God  is the overarching goal of creation. In fact, it is the overarching goal of everything He does.

He's doing a pretty poor job of that for claiming omnipotence and all.

The universe was created to display God’s glory (Psalm 19:1), and the wrath of God is revealed against those who fail to glorify God (Romans 1:23). Our sin causes us to fall short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23), and in the new heaven and new earth, the glory of God is what will provide light (Revelation 21:23). The glory of God is manifest when His attributes are on perfect display, and the story of redemption is part of that.

Are there any groups that you personally consider a cult?

[jordandog]

Meat Made Us Smarter

...and learning how to cook it made us human

Sorry, vegetarians: Humans have meat to thank for the evolutionary changes that made us the large-brained tool-users we are today. Some 2.3 million years ago, our ancestors made the jump from gnawing all day on leaves and nuts to scavenging carcasses. This, anthropologists say, was the magic moment when our brains got enough energy to start growing to their current size—largely because we no longer had to maintain a giant gut capable of processing all those raw leaves.

From there came the invention of tools—"external teeth" that meant we didn't need big sharp teeth like other predators—and fire for cooking, which made meat easier to digest and squeeze nutrition from, meaning we no longer had to spend hours a day chewing like chimps do. Cooking also taught us to share labor and brought people together for conversation in the evening, making us even more human

http://current.com/news/92584625_meat-made-us-smarter.htm

OK...you got me.  Good job.

I like the evolution theme behind your response.

No, she did not get you, amyrouse. That is a basically a one-sided bunch of BS - with meat processors/purveyors backing it. Science knows and has proven meat DID NOT increase our brain sizes.
Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods."

I could give 100 more citings by 100 other respected scientists and anthropologists that would dispute what she posted. Again, pull something off the internet without doing any research to back it up.
'If it's on TV, well then it must be true....'

[shernajwine]

Where is this logical evidence?

You know what, this is pointless. There is a whole thread dedicated to logical evidence (a thread which you have posted on Case for a Creator). I have linked to several websites and one in particular that gives plenty of good evidence. It is your choice to read it, it is your choice to accept it. But obviously you have not chosen to read it. You claimed that you went through godisimaginary, methodically reading through all 50 proofs. Yet, when it comes to godandscience...I'm not seeing any evidence that you have read through it as methodically.

You are not interested in knowing for sure the truth about God or being given any explanations. You do not WANT to believe in God and therefore any evidence or explanation is dismissed. I'm not going back and forth with you anymore, you don't listen. I keep repeating myself and you keep asking questions I have already answered. I took the time to read through everything you presented and you can't do the same for me. This isn't a mutual search for truth, it is you trying to convince me I'm wrong.

Excerpt from http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
David F. Coppedge at http://creationsafaris.com/wgcs.htm points out that:

    * Many of the greatest scientists in history were Christians or had Biblical presuppositions. (See Appendix 1 below.)
    * For most of these, their faith was the driving force behind their discoveries.
    * True self-sustaining modern science (not just engineering, logic or mathematics) was born within a Christian society.

This collection presents over 1600 mini-biographies of scientists of the Christian faith-including scholars, mathematicians, and theologians who advanced the cause of science. These Christians pioneered disciplines ranging from oceanography to astronomy, geology to biology, rocket science to genetics. The mini-biographies are presented in alphabetical order. Beginning March 2007 for ease of reference we are dividing each letter of the alphabet into its own separate page. Links to online websites are provided for those wishing to research a particular scientist. Researchers are invited to order the biographies by clicking on the hypertext, as well as check out the biographies published by Gale.

And this only talks about Christian scientists, the list would be even greater for scientists with a deistic POV.

Educated, highly intelligent, scientific men believe in God....not just any God but the God of the bible. They are Christians and their faith drove their discoveries. They believed that the supernatural not only COULD exist but that it DOES.  Go and argue with them.