The Bible as Truth?

[tantricia44]

I see the bible as distorted & incomplete.
If you believe the bible you are holding hand is the "true one," you're wrong. For one thing it's incomplete as the men that put it together took out a lot of the real exciting juicy stuff. (Especially pretty much all the great stuff that women did in the bible).
 Can you say sexist For example Adam had 2 wives. The first one was Lilith created equally from the earth same as Adam. When Adam wanted to be on top Lilith didn't. She wanted to be on top they were equals right. Lilith took off after that which i would translate as a quicky divorced out Adam's boring sexist world. Soon, entire eve cut right out adam' s ribs. So, would it be called incest when you marry your own female clone? So, if we come from adam & eve we are all practicing incest marry each other? Wow, the bible is sleazier than any *bleep* soap opera show! When you want passion, sex,betrayal,murder,incest,power,wars,cheating,fighting,love,hate,jealousy,danger,abduction,assassinations,CEO takeovers  don't order *bleep*, open the bible. So, no, I don't see the bible as the truth. I see the bible as a weapon. Like a loaded gun. A gun that has been fired so many times, the pages still wet, soaked in blood! How many times had there been wars fight in the the name of god or the bible. Calling all of them holy wars. There's NOTHING HOLY about WAR.

[Falconer02]

Tantricia--

Ok, that was awesome.  This is my favorite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzEs2nj7iZM

Yeah I love that one too.

In case you're interested...this is what I'm talking about in reference to the origin of the name "Jehovah."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uYWtBb01G0&feature=PlayList&p=D3B9B2D6788E5F28&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=69

I put this on my favorites bar and will check it out soon. Cool find.

[queenofnines]

When you want passion, sex,betrayal,murder,incest,power,wars,cheating,fighting,love,hate,jealousy,danger,abduction,assassinations,CEO takeovers  don't order *bleep*, open the bible.

Hahaha!  Awesomeness x infinity.   

[shernajwine]

Perhaps I haven't been clear.

My belief is that g-d is not active in this world.  There is no heaven or hell, only what we create on earth.  I have a hard time believing in life after death, but I am still reading on the topic, because I believe non-existence is scarier than hellfire.  I believe in a messianic age, not a messiah, and this messianic age is where we create our own peace on earth instead of waiting around for someone to deliver it.  I believe the bible is a book of stories written by men and interpreted by men and we all should make our own interpretations.  However, should someone decide not to do so, this does not buy them a one way ticket to eternal damnation.  Our belief in whether or not g-d exists or whether Jesus is part a threefold idea of a supernatural being holds no bearing on our afterlife.  The thing that matters most is how we live and how we treat others...how we ACT, not what we profess.  I try to live my life with that in mind. 

Hope that clears things up.

There is so much that doesn't make sense.  And I couldn't explain intelligently why I have faith other than the fact that it feels right to me

I suggested the website to you based on this statement you made in an earlier post. And the title of the thread was a question, not a statement.....so I assumed you started the thread with the intention of searching for an answer to that question. You haven't cleared anything up because you state a belief and then counter with a statement saying you could be wrong and you don't know for sure .....this implied confusion and not confidence in your belief. So my post was to try and help you find information to questions you may have.  No offense was intended and it's not an attempt to 'bring you to Christ'

It's up to you whether you look up the information or not, it will not effect me.

[amyrouse]

...a statement saying you could be wrong and you don't know for sure ...

This is the only truth I can say I know 100%.  No one knows who is right or who is wrong.

The original post wasn't made for clarification on my religion.  I was just wondering why people automatically assume that those who don't accept the bible as truth are atheists. Everything said afterward was for clarification on where I personally stand.

[amyrouse]

Really?     You'd seriously rather be tortured forever than not exist?

Dude, Queen, seriously...there are folks who are totally into torture...   

[shernajwine]

...a statement saying you could be wrong and you don't know for sure ...

This is the only truth I can say I know 100%.  No one knows who is right or who is wrong.

The original post wasn't made for clarification on my religion.  I was just wondering why people automatically assume that those who don't accept the bible as truth are atheists. Everything said afterward was for clarification on where I personally stand.

well i don't think i make that assumption about people. it's possible i have on this forum whilst in a discussion with atheists and someone chimes in with an agreement with an atheist, i may have made that assumption.

but i would like to point out here that, you are a walking contradiction.

you say in one statement that you "can't explain intelligently why you have faith....."
and then say the only thing you know 100% is that "no one knows who is right or wrong"
that's not faith, it's doubt in what you claim to believe. and also i'm curious as to why you don't put the 'o' in god??

[shernajwine]

Sherna, I went to that "god and science" website and poked around for a bit.  All I saw were a ton of justifications (like oh, god didn't "murder" people, he just killed them!), bad evidence, and wacky claims.

Stuff like this:

"I believe that bipedal primates that existed before Adam and Eve, were just part of the animal kingdom, and were not endowed with the characteristics that make humans distinct from animals."

Ugh.  So god just happened to create primates that share 98% of our DNA and hid skulls and skeletons (like Lucy) to confuse scientists.  Makes perfect sense!!  Also, we're freaking MAMMALS.  And mammals are animals!

When you're done with godisimaginary.com, check out http://www.ironchariots.org/  It is a lot more professional looking/sounding than the former and counters all of the classic arguments for god's existence.

yes God killed people. he killed people who were "wicked". he never killed people without just cause (murder) and he always sent someone to warn people of impending judgment so as to give them the chance to repent.  and i would think that if lets say...i dunno...someone came into your home and very gruesomely murdered your husband    you would consider the people who committed such a heinous and malicious crime to be worthy of death. you would probably personally want to be at their execution to watch them fry. people who are wicked and don't repent get judged by a merciful God who at least gives them a chance to repent.

would you give those people who murdered your husband mercy? if they came to you and said they were sorry and would never kill again, would you forgive them?? probably not, but God would because he is not just a God of judgment but a God of mercy.

As for Lucy
Australopithecus afarensis, dear old Lucy was said to be the “missing link” of human evolution.  Bones scattered miles apart became the latest scheme to boost the concept of evolution.  Lucy was thought to have walked upright, despite the evidence from CAT scans of the organ of balance that indicated it did not.  Now there is molecular evidence that show Australopithecines are not human ancestors but chimp ancestors!  That means that man came from upright walking and ground living and into the trees with chimps walking. 
New Scientist 153(2075:18, 29 March 1997.[/b]

i am not quite through with godisimaginary but i did visit the site ironchariots for a little while. i still haven't visited the one you posted earlier but i saved the link so i could get to it later. 

[benzero75]

I believe non-existence is scarier than hellfire.

Really?     You'd seriously rather be tortured forever than not exist?

Death can only be scary while we're alive.  Once it happens, it will no longer be scary.  And we all know exactly what it's going to be like: it's going to be just like before we were born.

Which brings up another very good point: if you didn't exist billions of years before your birth, what makes you think you'll exist after?!

I feel the same way amyrouse does about non-exitence.  I'd happily go to hell over non-exitence

Furthermore, I don't think the "before you were born" is comparable whatsoever.  It is impossible to correctly imagine what non-existence would be like.  It is a place that it isn't a place, where there is no mind to imagine or compare.  There are no dreams, nor colors, nor time.  There is no world going on without you.  It is a "nothing" where there is no such concept for nothing to be.

[foster8]

Why is it so hard to beleive what the bible says is true? There are places on this earth that most of us  have never seen in person. But yet because we see it on televsion or someone we know tell us about a place or thing that we beleive them right away.Yet we have not really seen it for ourselves.So think about that before you have your doubts about the Bible.Or is it some of us may find out the truth about ourselves. That we may not like and find it hard to accept.

[ButterflyWings]

When it comes to the bible I feel it is a story..Truth well I really cannot believe that..I consider myself no religion.
Atheists views make sense,Wicca makes sense..Other than that other religions seem very umm..wishy washy..
I believe love all gay,straight,blah blah blah..So sins make no sense to me cause no one is free from sin..
Everyone thinks of something sinful or has done something deemed as sinful..
Sorry got lost lmao..So no Bible is no truth to me its a story a man on some mind altering drugs started and a imperfect closed minded person finished.

[queenofnines]

he never killed people without just cause (murder) and he always sent someone to warn people of impending judgment so as to give them the chance to repent.

This sounds real good until I whip out some unjustified killing from the Bible:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

So 42 little kids were brutally ripped to shreds just because they made fun of someone who was bald!!  Don't say it wasn't god; it's quite obvious the "moral" of this story is don't make fun of a prophet or god will allow a whole mess of children to be consumed by bears!


Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36)

Does this make ANY flippin' sense?  So a dude doesn't want to be violent and hit a prophet and god thinks the "just" punishment for this understandable "disobedience" should be death by a lion??


Then we have all the people god instructs US to kill for ridiculous reasons:

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Note the key word ALL.  So if your parents beat you, molested you, raped you, left you for dead on the street...don't ever say a bad word about them or you're worthy of DEATH in god's eyes.


But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy  22:20-21)

Yes, your sex life is THAT important to god.


The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death. (Exodus 31:12-15)

Screw putting food on the table for your family.  If a man works on the wrong day of the week, he deserves to die!


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)

If your dad did something bad, you deserve to die just in case you wind up like him.


Merciless killing instructed by god:

Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Ezekiel 9:5)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me."  And all the Levites came.  He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors."  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers.  Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29)

This is just a TASTE of the god you worship!  Still think it was always "justified"?

[queenofnines]

I wonder how these people treated other children who still believed in Santa Claus when they found out he was fake? They must of been the ones saying you are stupid for thinking santa is real and nananana.

That's a very childish "point" to bring up.  I, for one, was NOT one of the children who teased the other kids about it, but this is not the issue.  People who believe in Santa aren't trying to interfere with out legislature or flying planes into buildings.  To compare the two shows the weakness of your arguing abilities.

I don't think the "before you were born" is comparable whatsoever.  It is impossible to correctly imagine what non-existence would be like.

Well the point is that we've all already experienced non-existence for an infinite amount of time!  Just because we can't fully wrap our brains around what it's going to be like to NOT have a brain does not mean we don't already have experience being dead.    Anytime you are unconscious you are in a state similar to death!  Because your brain is where it's at, baby!

So, you know, EVERY SINGLE NIGHT when you pass out and can't remember it and are unconscious for 8 or so hours...that is like death training.  Going unconscious every night doesn't scare most people because they trust that they'll wake up in a few hours...the fact that we do wake up and can reflect on when we were semi-nonexistent the previous night is kind of freaky, eh?  

[queenofnines]

How do we know we didn't exist before we were born? Shoot, I don't remember being a baby, let alone what happend before that or if I was someone else or somewhere else as a spirit.

Uh, are you Mormon or something?  lol  

So before you were born you were chillin' with god on the clouds and he's like, "Elissa, yo!  Want to go to Earth?"  
You: "Yeah, that sounds fun!"  
God: "Cool!  Is 1982 convenient for you?"  
You: "Yeah, sounds like a fine time to be born!"  
God: "Alright then!  I have to warn you, though, part of the deal of being allowed to go to Earth is that I must wipe your memory of ever knowing that you used to live with me.  Going to Earth is like a test, see.  You may never find me again, and then I'll have to torture you in hell forever.  Can you accept that risk?"

Well I guess you said yes, because here you are!  Makes perfect sense!!


In Reality Land, non-existent brain = non-existent you.  And your brain has to develop quite a lot once you have one, which is why you can't remember being a baby.

There are places on this earth that most of us  have never seen in person. But yet because we see it on televsion or someone we know tell us about a place or thing that we beleive them right away.Yet we have not really seen it for ourselves.So think about that before you have your doubts about the Bible.

This is not a valid argument, sorry!  Anyone can travel to Australia and see for themselves that it exists!!!  Not so with any of the claims of the Bible.

[shernajwine]

queen, i realize i'm not going to convince you so i'm trying to avoid a bunch of back and forth. there is explanation for everything you posted pretty much on the website i mentioned earlier. if you disagree with it or want to call it weak justifications. that's alright   and yes i still think that God is justified in any actions he does, because i believe and know my God to be a loving and holy and just and righteous God.

i'm sorry but i haven't found anything that is powerful enough to disprove the God with whom i have a personal relationship.

He is                                                         And I heard as it were the voice of many angels                                                          In the beginning in Genesis 1 and 1
Wonderful Glorious                                       And the beasts and elders round about the throne                                                       God created the heavens and the earth
Holy and Righteous                                      And the number of them was 10,000 times 10,000                                                        And the earth was without form and void
Victorious Conqueror                                    And thousands and thousands                                                                                  And by the spoken word of God
Triumphant and Mighty                                 Saying with a loud voice                                                                                          God created the whole universe and the world that we live in
Healer Deliverer                                           Worthy is the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth                                The trees that we see outside came forth by the word of God
Shield and Defense                                      To receive Glory and Honor and Riches and Blessing                                                      John Chapter One says "in the beginning was the word..
Strong Tower and My Best Friend                   And every creature which is in the heavens                                                                The word was with God and word was God"
Omnipotent, Omnipresent                              And every creature on the earth and underneath the sea                                              Verse 14 says "and that word was made flesh and it dwelt among us"
Soon Coming King                                        And such as are in sea heard I saying                                                                        And I'm glad to tell you that I KNOW WHAT HIS NAME IS
Alpha Omega                                              Blessing and Glory and Honor and Strength and Dominion and Power                                 HIS NAME IS JESUS
Lord of Everything                                       Be unto the Lamb who sits upon the throne Forever! and Ever! and Ever and Ever!!            JESUS THOU ART GOD
Holy Holy Holy is His name!

I am NOT ashamed of the gospel and although I love you as the precious person you are   and I wish I could just hug you so you know I'm sincere. These words I type are embedded deep within me and no matter what materials you have presented to me and I have willingly and without prejudgment read the information, I haven't been shaken. The truth is not just in my knowledge but in my heart and I have confidence in whom I serve!