If I were a Christian, I'd claim this as proof of "god"...

[shernajwine]

where nothing is logical and everything is possible.

LSD is one helluva drug.

that's what is so great....i don't have to use drugs to live in a world where everything is possible! but if you prefer LSD have fun with that

[rwdeese]

there is definitely a difference between going through the motions of christianity and experiencing a truth that moves lives and breathes in you.  where nothing is logical and everything is possible.

Absolutely! I have met many people who claim Christianity as their faith. Some have never even read the Bible. Many are just "heady" believers with no real experience with the God of the universe. If one reads the Bible, one discovers that the people of God had real experiences with God. They didn't memorize a mere creed - they encountered a real person! American christianity, for the most part, is a powerless, mental, easy believism, type of Christianity. You can usually tell after going to one of their fellowships. Most people there are talking about the weather, sports or a favorite movie. Why? Because they do not experience God working powerfully day to day. They do not experience God performing miracles, demons being driven out, prayers being answered, and awesome things being done. The God of the Bible is still doing all of these things - mostly behind the scenes with those who simply desire to walk humbly with their God!

[rwdeese]

Real Christians have real encounters that change their life so dramatically that they cannot deny the existence of God.

Give me some examples from your own life then (it's funny, most of the time when an atheist asks a believer this, they suddenly get very quiet).  I think you'll be highly interested to know that when I first became a believer I was in the hospital at 16 due to anorexia; shortly after point-blank deciding to give god a try (I was a non-believer before), I got a gooey, prideful feeling and a few days later contracted a virus where I had to be put on isolation.  I saw angels, the Grim Reaper, God, and heard God during this time, which really made me believe it was God looking out for me and 100% prompted me to start diligently going to church when I got out.  Is that dramatic and real enough enough for ya?

one who only THINKS they were a Christian!

Quit being snotty.  If you sincerely believe(d) in the god of the Bible, you are/were a Christian.  People who taunt this just don't understand how anyone could ever leave it.

Apostle Paul said that "my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:4-5" Yet, many believers today are all about knowledge, not about the power of God!

My first encounter with God instantly delivered me from drugs - meth, lsd, pot - all desire was 100% removed. My change was so dramatic that I had an entire Coast Guard vessel talking about the change.

[queenofnines]

My first encounter with God instantly delivered me from drugs - meth, lsd, pot - all desire was 100% removed. My change was so dramatic that I had an entire Coast Guard vessel talking about the change.

And it's possible for a person to do that on their own, give yourself some credit!!  Also I would ask how you were allowed to be in the military while under the influence of drugs!

What about my god hallucinations...er, I mean experiences...was I not a "true Christian" then??

[rwdeese]

And it's possible for a person to do that on their own, give yourself some credit!!

I would give me credit, but since I tried to conquer drugs approximately 10 times before, the power of change was too "other world" for it to be me alone.

Also I would ask how you were allowed to be in the military while under the influence of drugs!

Absolutely not... in fact, I was arrested my Coast Guard intelligence about six months later - they finally caught up to me. I was facing a long time in prison. I admitted to all my drug dealling, taking, etc.. to the agents. So, they not only had testimonies from those I sold drugs from, they also had my full testimony. The local chaplain and I got on our knees and prayed. Two weeks later I was officially notified that all charged were dropped. To this day, no one can explain how it happened!

What about my god hallucinations...er, I mean experiences...was I not a "true Christian" then??

This may or may not have taken place. If you continued to have powerful experiences (which I continually did and do), then these experiences have meaning. If, however, this experience was the only real encounter you had - it may have been drugs, for all I know. Why? When God moves upon a life - He continues to show Himself faithful and strong.

My goodness, I have so many stories, I have had Cols in the military ask me to write a book about them all! The God who constantly did miracles in the bible - still performs many miracles for His people!

[queenofnines]

I would give me credit, but since I tried to conquer drugs approximately 10 times before, the power of change was too "other world" for it to be me alone.

I'm not trying to trash your experience, but I'm skeptical because you may not have been aware of the subconcious causes, motivators, and chain of events that finally allowed you to kick it cold-turkey.   It's understandable how believing in some higher paternal power who personally cares for and is looking out for you can be a powerful motivation for someone who feels otherwise helpless.  This doesn't mean the higher power is actually there...it's a scientific fact that our brains can do many funny things while under stress; you said yourself we can't trust our senses.

To this day, no one can explain how it happened!

You're not telling the full story here...you got kicked out of the Coast Guard, yes?  There are many ways charges could have been dropped; you could have had a commander looking out for you, saying that you were a hard worker and told the truth and had already suffered enough by being dishonorably discharged...also the military is INFAMOUS for losing people's paperwork and f*cking things up!

This may or may not have taken place...it may have been drugs, for all I know.

No, it actually did take place and at the time felt very powerful...but the difference is I now know there was a medical explanation for it, not a supernatural one.  You didn't read very closely because I said I was in the hospital and was malnourished...nothing to do with drugs.

[rwdeese]

I'm not trying to trash your experience, but I'm skeptical because you may not have been aware of the subconcious causes, motivators, and chain of events that finally allowed you to kick it cold-turkey.   It's understandable how believing in some higher paternal power who personally cares for and is looking out for you can be a powerful motivation for someone who feels otherwise helpless.  This doesn't mean the higher power is actually there...it's a scientific fact that our brains can do many funny things while under stress; you said yourself we can't trust our senses.

Oh, I don't care if you trash my experience. If that was the end of it, I may be an atheist today. However, this was the beginning of one powerful event after another. So much so that the supernatural has now become the natural.

RW:To this day, no one can explain how it happened!

You're not telling the full story here...you got kicked out of the Coast Guard, yes?

No, I did not get kicked out.

There are many ways charges could have been dropped; you could have had a commander looking out for you, saying that you were a hard worker

Certainly, however, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't orchestrated by God. Many times God used humans to accomplish His will in Scripture!

and told the truth and had already suffered enough by being dishonorably discharged...also the military is INFAMOUS for losing people's paperwork and f*cking things up!

Well, I wasn't discharged, and yes, it is true - things can get messed up in the military. However, that in and of itself, does not eliminate providence!

RW: This may or may not have taken place...it may have been drugs, for all I know.

No, it actually did take place and at the time felt very powerful...but the difference is I now know there was a medical explanation for it, not a supernatural one.  You didn't read very closely because I said I was in the hospital and was malnourished...nothing to do with drugs.

Yes, it may have been malnutrition. It may have benn God! However, if that was the only experience you had, I would lean toward malnutrition! It is not to say, however, that God was not planning on attempting to use it for His purposes!

[Falconer02]

that's what is so great....i don't have to use drugs to live in a world where everything is possible! but if you prefer LSD have fun with that

Heheh. I don't do drugs. But just remember that there's nothing wrong with having your head in the clouds if your feet are on the ground. A lot of christians never figure that out.

My first encounter with God instantly delivered me from drugs - meth, lsd, pot - all desire was 100% removed. My change was so dramatic that I had an entire Coast Guard vessel talking about the change.

I've heard garbage like this throughout my whole life and it ticks me off to no end.
"I had a dream and this priest was in it and then I went into the church and the priest was right up there! The same one!"
"I needed a job bad and I prayed and prayed and suddenly out of the blue I got a job interview!"
"I prayed to god for her to see the truth and now she has got out of her current religion!"

I used to think I saw miracles like this before I realized I was just lying to myself and 'playing the game'. And now I see a new person playing the same one. Look, you've delusioned yourself into thinking god is watching over you. That since you conquered an addiction, you're a man-made miracle. What about all of those people who have never had that happen to them and have fought addictions through their whole life? Or those who realize the truth and don't use the "god must a done it!" cop-out on a consistant scale like some people trying to sway feeble minds? It's ridiculously obvious that that is what your doing. "If the odds are in your favor, it must be gods doing! Because it's obvious he'sresponsible for my success! Nevermind everyone else being effected by the problem! I'M in good shape and that should be proof enough!"

[Stefan94]

I agree this has nothing to do with 'God' but it was just a choice of where to park. I'm sure one of the 4 people in the car wreck believed in 'God' and their car was damaged in the crash.

[queenofnines]

I agree this has nothing to do with 'God' but it was just a choice of where to park. I'm sure one of the 4 people in the car wreck believed in 'God' and their car was damaged in the crash.

Exactly, but I'm just trying to point out that Christians do this all the time..."299 people were killed in a plane crash, but one person survived - praise god!"..."There were two metal bars lying on top of each other in the form of a cross in the midst of 9/11 - praise god!"..."God allowed my 1lb. premature baby to survive, nevermind the fact god allowed an innocent child to be born premature and suffer and struggle in the first place - praise god!"..."America must be god's new chosen people, as he has a good track record of answering OUR prayers while consistently ignoring the starving people in Africa - praise god!"

this was the beginning of one powerful event after another. So much so that the supernatural has now become the natural.

Then you should be able to provide an abundance of more examples.  What powerful thing has god done for your today, this week, this month?

No, I did not get kicked out.

Wow, that's really surprising.  So god didn't think you deserved to own up to your crimes AT ALL then?  Do they keep a special watch on you during your required drug *bleep* tests or something now?  Or did you quit BEFORE they could kick you out?  You said your whole boat knew about it...so I am to believe that god magically altered everyone in your chain of command's brains to overlook something that is usually a guaranteed ticket out?  What kind of example is it setting for the military to NOT kick someone who was involved with drugs out?  You're going to get other people thinking they can get away with it, too.  Isn't the justice of god grand??

I have many friends in the military who've almost been kicked out for sh*t that was WAY LESS severe than your story.  One in particular got in trouble for accidentally overdosing on caffeine pills.

Certainly, however, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't orchestrated by God. Many times God used humans to accomplish His will in Scripture!

That is the only avenue through which god does things, apparently, because nothing unnatural or impossible ever happens!  In all seriousness, this kind of explanation doesn't hold up because these types of events happen to all groups of people all the time.

[Sweetpea94]

This doesn't prove that not believing in God kept your car from being hit.  It just show that perhaps the impact was not strong enough to cause the car next to or behind yours to hit yours. 

[queenofnines]

This doesn't prove that not believing in God kept your car from being hit.

I know, it was a joke when I said: "Moral of the story: be an atheist, because then your car won't get smashed!"  Notice I added "Haha, j/k" right after that. 

It just show that perhaps the impact was not strong enough to cause the car next to or behind yours to hit yours. 

Yep.  More people need to critically examine situations like you do before exclaiming, "god did it!"   

[Stealth3si]

This story is an example of a Christian who believes in a popular misled doctrine as their model for Christian faith.

Well I'm an atheist, not sure if you caught the title with the key phrase "if I were a Christian"...anyway, I was a Christian for 5 years and this type of example is DEFINITELY something a believer would give for god watching out for them.  Not sure what snotty sect you belong to, but what I described is completely typical of the average Christian.   

I would consider "typical" and "average" as understatements.

As for the title, I had read it but the issue has more to do with what Americans believe than anything else. The OT clearly shows that like most Americans, believers and non-believers believe the popular American views of "faith," that really aren't so ordinary, since such inceptions have remarkable influence in American culture.