Where do you go after death?

[Dugger07]

Some people say that you go to heaven, guess we'll never know until after we die.

[walksalone11]

I'm going to Disney World....

[queenofnines]

Hi mayra!  I hope you don't think I was picking on you personally.

there is no way to know what really happens until you experience it yourself

The problem with this is - if what the scientific evidence points to is right - once your brain completely shuts off during death, you're gone...and you won't even have time to realize it, just like we cannot pinpoint the exact time we lose consciousness when we go to sleep or are "put to sleep".  Assuming that people live on somewhere else without evidence is wishful thinking.

Yes the brain is impacted, but does that mean everyone who experience NDE start to form similar stories in their brains during the impact...How can we all form this similar experience with some facts being exactly the same in each of our own brains. Its impossible for everyone to see the same things and feel the same feelings.

Because we're human, we all have the same body parts, and we share similar genes.  We are programmed to have similar experiences, especially in how our bodies react to stress.  Our brains especially can do some pretty odd things when under stress.  Case in point: I have been close to death myself and contracted a virus during that time which made me even sicker.  I started seeing and hearing things that weren't there, including things of a "spiritual" nature (like angels, The Grim Reaper).  A friend of mine had a NDE as a child and saw Star Wars characters.  So while not all NDEs will be *exactly* the same...they can have a lot of things in common because we all have human brains.  Your mind can play tricks on you if you don't get enough sleep and people can go crazy from being deprived of stimuli.

Right after my accident I told my self if I ever had a doubt about death, ghost or fears of dieing, Now I don't because I have experienced something incredible and I know what I felt and saw for a fact.

I think it is a cruel joke what our brains can deliver near-death.  It gives people false hope...

[abstract1er]

i respect everybody's opinion, but me myself, i think there is no after life, we just decompose and become dust, so we have to make the best of this life we have now, because we only live once

[queenofnines]

"Do you remember all of those billions of years before you were born?  No, of course you don't, and you want to know WHY?  Because you didn't exist!  Did you?  No, you didn't exist, and you didn't exist because you didn't have a BRAIN.  And in order to exist, you need a brain.  Because you're human.  And humans can't exist without brains.  But...a lot of people don't realize this.  And, some of us have fantasizes of living without our brains.

Now some people who don't believe in an afterlife say that they would not want to live forever, that they would get bored.  And I agree with them...if I were to stay the way I am now forever.  I would not want to stay the way I am forever, because I WOULD get bored.  However, if I were to live forever in eternal bliss, frankly, I would choose that option to non-existence.  I don't think it would be boring, because if it were boring, it wouldn't be bliss.  And by definition, eternal bliss is bliss.  And therefore...would not be boring.  And so, if that option were available to me, you can bet I would choose it.

Sadly, it appears there is no reason whatsoever to believe that this option is available.  However, most people - in the ultimate act of wishful thinking - PERSEVERE in the delusion that they are going to *live forever*.  In bliss.  I'm sure people fantasize about it all the time.  I've fantasized it about it in the past... [goes on to describe his own personal heaven]

...But that's a fantasy.  And you know, frankly, the Christian heaven - as I've heard described - is not really anything like that [his heaven].  Christians have always failed to provide a very convincing heaven.  The Christian heaven...what, you're with God forever?  It's just not that appealing-sounding, is it?  That's why the Christians focus more on HELL.  Muslims!  On the other hand!  They...they provide a much more appealing heaven, in my opinion.  But anyway, that's not the point of this video.

Most people - most of our earthly brothers and sisters on this ridiculous planet - are under the impression that they're going to live forever.  They're not going to die when their bodies die off and their brains rot away...now WHY they are under this impression is a bit mystifying.  For example, have these people considered that when they go to sleep, a deep sleep without any dreams, their consciousness CEASES.  They cease to be aware.  Have they noticed that when they are under anesthesia they are not conscious...people in comas are not conscious.  So *why* do they think people without brains [in the case of death] somehow WILL be conscious?  Doesn't make any sense.  

And what exactly is consciousness like separated from the body?  One of the things that always makes me skeptical of these "out-of-body experience" stories is they claim to be looking around...looking around...now think about that.  Think about human perception.  We have two eyes, two eyes which are connected to a VISUAL CORTEX.  And so we see things in a particular way.  We have bad peripheral vision, for example.  We have very good vision in the center.  And we can move our eyes around and look at one thing at a time.  So, tell me this; a disembodied soul wandering about...how does that soul see?  Does it see everything at once, or does it have little 'soul eyes' moving about looking at one thing or another?  Can it see ultra-violet light?  Or can it only see the human spectrum of light?  Why does it seem like people who describe their 'soul wandering' experiences always seem to describe experiences that seem very similar to human experiences?  You know, does the soul have five senses?  It doesn't make any sense.  People have not thought this through very carefully...how limited and how specific human perception is.  Why they think the perception would go on being the same without a body just shows they haven't thought about it very much.

Another question: does the soul have memories?  Memories.  Does it remember what happened during life?  If the soul exists after death.  And what makes you think it will? If I destroy your hippocampus or some other parts of your brain, you will lose a lot of memory.  So if you destroy parts of your brain and you lose your memories, why do you think you'll be able to destroy the ENTIRE brain [in death] and *keep* them?  It doesn't make sense.  If you destroy your visual cortex, you will be blind.  If you destroy your auditory cortex, you will be deaf.  Is the soul blind and deaf?

How does the soul perceive, exactly?  It doesn't make sense.  If we completely disconnect the cortex from the lower brain or if you go into a coma, you lose conciousness altogether.  You will not think, therefore, you will not be.  You will cease to be aware.  There will be no objects of your subject [points to brain].  You will cease to be a being of itself.  So why, I might ask, might that not be the case when your entire brain is destroyed?  YOU have not thought this out very carefully, have you!  You have performed an extraordinary act of wishful thinking.  But your hypothesis fails to stand up to any kind of evidence at all.

Also, if you really do believe the soul is immaterial, I would like to know WHAT YOU THINK THE SOUL IS DOING exactly when you sleep?  When you're in a coma?  What, does it go for a STROLL around the block while your body just lies there?  I mean, why do you lose conciousness?  Your body can sleep, but your soul...your soul can just stay awake!

But that's not how it happens...is it?"

~ Transcription of most of the video I linked to because it is BRILLIANT.  By Nykytyne2

[yaayme]

I hope there's a hell cause a lot of people deserve to go there, LOL.

Seriously??  Jesus Christ.  Do you even know what you are saying?

Ummm, yes I know exactly what I'm saying. People like Hitler for example and the people that flew the planes into the trade center's, shall I go on?...Initially I was joking when I said that, but when you honestly think about it, yes there are people out there, evil people of course, that need to be punished, and if you believe in Jesus Christ like you just cried out, then you know that there may possibly be a hell. The bible does mention hell you know?. If that what you believe.

[jordandog]

@queenofnines -
I thought I had posted about the video, but realize now it was a day our power went, so hard to post since I have not yet fully developed all MY 'super powers' yet.   I thought Nykytyne2 did an outstanding job of pointing out how flawed much of the thinking is as to NDE's. He also did in a way that was very easy to understand and correlate things we do know about the human body/psyche. As you pointed out, the colors, our eyes, etc. I am not in a position to argue with anyone's claims of a NDE - they remember what they claim to remember, but I do know some have made stories of it more colorful each time they have told it again.

I put it (somewhat) in the category of transgression therapy where people remember their own births. I have heard some really whacked out stories about that, but that's another discussion right there.

My entire life has been spent taking care of pediatric oncology (cancer) patients and working in Trauma and ER at a major hospital. I have seen and heard incredible things, believe me. But NOT once, have I heard a child or teenager we thought with certainty was not going to live, give a retelling of what they felt, saw, sensed, and heard that came anywhere close to what adults have said. I believe this is part innocence and part not being 'conditioned' by outside forces.

Thanks again for another great video.  

[Kiki1992]

It all depends on what you believe. As a Christian, I believe that after death I will be in heaven with God because I believe in Jesus as my savior. Although that is the truth, I will not tell you to believe in it, but you may do so at your own will. Everyone is responsible for their own fate. If you want more answers, do some reading in the Bible about Salvation through Jesus Christ.

[queenofnines]

Ummm, yes I know exactly what I'm saying. People like Hitler for example and the people that flew the planes into the trade center's, shall I go on?...Initially I was joking when I said that, but when you honestly think about it, yes there are people out there, evil people of course, that need to be punished, and if you believe in Jesus Christ like you just cried out, then you know that there may possibly be a hell. The bible does mention hell you know?. If that what you believe.

No, not even Hitler nor the 9/11 people "deserve" to be tortured to the maximum pain level endlessly, forever...NO ONE deserves infinite punishment for a finite crime.  If you think people do, that really says a lot about you, and not in a good way.  For the record, I do believe in the death penalty; I think if you wrongly take an innocent life, you don't deserve to live and should be removed from society.  However, in America we are way too lenient and have this funny thought that every life is sacred; therefore, not many people get the death penalty and we instead have to pay for them to live out the rest of their useless lives in prison with our tax dollars.  We used to torture people and sh*t before we realized THAT WAS WRONG.  There is no point in having a person needlessly suffer if we plan to kill them anyway.

I do not believe in Jesus Christ; that was obviously said in vain.  And no -- I am 100% certain there is not a hell because such a concept comes from man-made gods, which can be proven false.

[queenofnines]

I am not in a position to argue with anyone's claims of a NDE - they remember what they claim to remember, but I do know some have made stories of it more colorful each time they have told it again.

Exactly; we are definitely susceptible to exaggerating things/"filling in the blanks" on events that were either unclear or happened a long time ago.  I really don't understand why people trust their brains for giving them a clear picture of reality when it is in the process of shutting down...  Also, just because a person has a NDE doesn't mean they are actually completely dead.  The three major organs (heart, lungs, and brain) need to give out for a person to be completely dead...the most important of these being the brain!  And the brain is obviously still firing to some extent if a person is able to have a NDE!  So sorry, that person wasn't truly "dead".  They did not see the afterlife.

[Mona88]

there is life after death but where do we go i would have to say only god knows, but i believe there is

[mayra88]

Hi queenofnines,
 
In response to everything you have said, NDE does not mean you really died completely, that's why is called a Near Death Experience wich means you were close to dyeing and started to take a few steps towards death. Also a human alive needs all the body parts to continue to live, the heart, brains, eyes ....., but when a human body dies, yes every part of your body stays here on earth because they don't work. Our spirits don't need all of this parts because a spirit is a spirit is like talking about energy. A spirit could see, feel, hear in its own way and in our history from way back then there is evidence that there is spirits and ghost because we still see them now just like in the past history. Spirits could be invisible just like the invisible connections between cell phones when you get a call. Also like wireless stuff that send signals that we cannot see. Also there has to be something or someone who created all of us and made us function to be able to live, then that someone or thing also created the spirit to function in its own ways.

So in conclusion to everything, I did have a near death experience and was on my way but then came back. Also spirits or ghost do exist because there is very little people that have not experience seeing a ghost in this world. Its either you have seen one or someone you know has or felt them. Well everyone has their own ideas of everything so in my opinion I do believe on what happens to me and I also believe in spirits because I have seen them all my life.

[queenofnines]

NDE does not mean you really died completely, that's why is called a Near Death Experience wich means you were close to dyeing

Yes, I mentioned that.

and started to take a few steps towards death.

And here is where the perceptions are different.  People think these experiences when their bodies are under stress are somehow legit spiritual encounters; again I go back to how can you trust yourself when you are not in your right mind?  Why do you ignore the explanation that science gives that such events are due to a lack of oxygen and your brain freaking out?  We all know we can have some weird dreams sometimes when we go to sleep at night -- this is our brain trying to "make sense" of random things and the day's events.  Why, then, would our brain not do something similar when it is in danger of shutting down?

Our spirits don't need all of this parts because a spirit is a spirit is like talking about energy. A spirit could see, feel, hear in its own way and in our history from way back then there is evidence that there is spirits and ghost because we still see them now just like in the past history.

You are describing an "essence" that is entirely magical in nature and has no hard evidence in regards to its existence (people's anecdotal accounts are not real evidence).  In fact, many of the things that you think are "you" or "your" choices are really just responses to chemical reactions in your brain, which is evidence against a soul.  For example, you fall in love because of dopamine and serotonin, not because your "soul" wanted you to.

Spirits could be invisible just like the invisible connections between cell phones when you get a call. Also like wireless stuff that send signals that we cannot see.

The problem with this logic is that cell phone waves are continuously observable (in the scientific sense), testable, and repeatable whereas anything "spiritual" is not.

Also there has to be something or someone who created all of us and made us function to be able to live, then that someone or thing also created the spirit to function in its own ways.

Yes, someTHING did result in us (not someONE).  Regardless, you cannot go on to say that the soul therefore exists if you cannot prove the soul.  That is a complete non-sequitur.

Also spirits or ghost do exist because there is very little people that have not experience seeing a ghost in this world. Its either you have seen one or someone you know has or felt them.

The problem with this is none of these experiences can be verified.  I'm just supposed to take a person's word, you say, that aliens abducted them and probed them and they lived to tell the tale?  Sorry, in order for something to be true there needs to concrete, repeatable evidence for it. 

There are too many stumbling blocks in just taking someone's word: was their body under stress (as in the case of a NDE or my own personal hallucinatory experiences), were they on drugs (medical or recreational), were they dreaming, are they lying or exaggerating, was their mind/eyes playing tricks on them, do they stand to profit in some way from telling me this story...etc. etc.

[mayra88]

K everyone has their own beliefs, thoughts and experiences. In many of my experiences I have been in perfect conditions no illusionations, stress or drugs. Most of my ghost stories are from when i was young and I have had other people witness it with me.


Guess we all believe what we want to believe.

[queenofnines]

K everyone has their own beliefs, thoughts and experiences.  Guess we all believe what we want to believe.

I wasn't trying to attack you.    It's just when people say "we all have our different beliefs", I feel that is an excuse to ignore what the scientific evidence says.  All I am saying is I want more people to become educated on the science of matters, and if they still choose to believe something completely opposite, okay then.  But it is doing yourself a disservice to not learn about how things really work.

The only things I "believe" in are things that are matter of opinion; for example, I believe it is ridiculous to spend $26,000 on a wedding.  This belief is not a FACT, however, because it has no scientific basis.  Something like a NDE *does* have a scientific basis, therefore I choose to "believe" in what the truth says.

Something like evolution is considered a scientific FACT, but people choose to be willfully ignorant of that in favor of what makes them personally feel better.