Define Evolution

[twood312]

I challenge you or anyone to prove the validity of evolution as the origin of life. I mean viable proof. The father of evolution himself said in disappointment at the end of his "origin of species" that it required more faith to believe his theory of evolution than it did to believe in divine intervention, this was because he saw it as an unprovable theory. The proper definition for evolution is simply "change", which is something we all do in a sense. There is no scientific proof for evolution. You can put a dog in a cage and feed it thermal radiation for a thousand years and if it can breed it will still produce a dog. Big bang is an insult to my intelligence, and so is the idea that we came from some primordial soup. Crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up faster. Something will never come from nothing. It IS A SCIENTIFIC IMPOSSIBILITY!!!

[queenofnines]

"An Ode to A Troll"

Very good!   

[queenofnines]

I challenge you or anyone to prove the validity of evolution as the origin of life. I mean viable proof.

Um, consult a scientist for that.  Because us lowly laymen are not going to convince you.

The father of evolution himself said in disappointment at the end of his "origin of species" that it required more faith to believe his theory of evolution than it did to believe in divine intervention, this was because he saw it as an unprovable theory.

The "father" of evolution?  I'll let that one slide..anyway, you are simply forgetting that Darwin lived 150 years ago - before countless scientific advances and an even a more in-depth FOSSIL RECORD.  So of course with way less evidence and advancements than we have today he is going to say something like that.

There is no scientific proof for evolution.

You're not serious, are you?

Big bang is an insult to my intelligence, and so is the idea that we came from some primordial soup.

Boo-hoo.  It's still true...grow up and deal with it.  And anyway, I really don't understand how it could be insulting to one's intelligence.  We should all be in awe of the universe!!
 

Crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up faster.

Exactly.  Wish that a magical sky daddy made you, ignore science, and live your life like a schizophrenic and see how far that gets you.

Something will never come from nothing. It IS A SCIENTIFIC IMPOSSIBILITY!!!

Something didn't come from nothing.  It is quite possible that energy has always existed, and it at least existed within a singularity that was the Big Bang...a.k.a. not "nothing"!

[twood312]

Hmmm. What scientific data is there out there? 150 yrs. ago, or now. You seem to know what you are talking about. So give me the data. Big Bang happened? Prove it! What did the big bang consist of? What caused it? Something had to. What was the something and where did it come from?  Was it energy? Where did this mysterious energy come from? Creationism takes no more faith than evolution. I'm not saying you should believe as I do. We are designed with the free-will to believe as we choose. Right or wrong. But I see more explanation for my life in the belief of creation then I do in nothing. What is my life for if that is true. Why are we as humans the only creature among life-forms which can reason? Why after thousands of years can apes not read a blueprint or put a cabinet together, or boil water? I'm just asking. I would have no problem with evolution if anyone could show me how it relates to who we are as humans. If it is true, what are we here for, and what is your purpose in life but to be born and to die. A persons life basically has no meaning. Which in effect brings up another topic for discussion. It would mean that there are no absolutes. Everything is relevant as long as you want it to be because there is no meaning to life. Let your child be molested and say that it isn't wrong. Let your wife be raped and say that it doesn't matter. Let someone break into your home and say that's ok to take what you have worked hard for. You very well could be right.
You might possibly be right. My belief is also based on faith(along with some pretty strong archeological evidence). And if you are right I will still be O.K. in the end, because it doesn't really matter. But what if I am right and you are the one who is wrong? Where does that leave you?

[jordandog]

"I would have no problem with evolution if anyone could show me how it relates to who we are as humans."
 
Are you serious or is that a trick question? I have to question, based on that alone and not even taking the other things you have written into consideration, if you actually KNOW what evolution even is. It relates to almost every single aspect of our development throughout recorded history.

"An Ode to A Troll"

Very good!   

Thanks! By the way, I almost got physically ill from laughing at those other vids!  I can't wait to share them all with the 'reasonable C's'.

[twood312]

Thanks for the dialogue. I didn't think you would be able to answer my questions anyway. Kind of odd considering you are so adamant that it is truth. Oh yeah, one more thing. Show me where the fossil record validates the theory of evolution? I guess that's another question i have that will have to go unanswered. Thanks anyway!

[Falconer02]

"An Ode to A Troll"

Niiiiice.

Without secondary corroboration the Noah fable is hardly more than a myth. There is geologic evidence of a huge flood thousands of years in the area for the Black sea when it busted the natural dam that  kept it filled. It flooded most of the known world. Not hard to see the start of a campfire story there.

There were many floods thousands of years ago just as there are all over the earth today. I'm not saying there is no way it did not happen-- I do believe something like it happened but just on a much more miniscule scale (man saves his herd on a raft or something). Most exhaggerations come from true events. The problem here is having 1 man get every animal on earth (while fending off inbreeding-- you need more than just 1 pair) onto a humongous boat. It's still a mythological concept.

If Noah was 4000 years ago, Evidence demonstrates the Earth is about 4 1/2 Billion years old and the first fossils of single cells appear about 3 1/2 Billion yrs ago So if that was the origin of life. Evolution must be a very slow process  

Was Noahs tale 4000 years ago? I thought it was much older. And yes, evolution is/can be an extremely slow process-- microevolution being much quicker than macro obviously. TIME!

There is no scientific proof for evolution.

There is a gigantic pool of proof for evolution. You just need to do a lot more research considering your paragraph. If you've ever eaten fruit or vegetables from a place that sprays insecticides on their crops, you can be happy the developers can kill bugs that are constantly evolving into better forms to survive the insecticides. They constantly need to upgrade and invent new insecticides to fend off the new breeds. It's stacking up to be a huge problem-- many eastern nations have famine because they do not upgrade their sprays. Arr. Evolution be a harsh mistress.

Sickle cell anemia is more undeniable proof of evolution. Look into it! Interesting stuff.

You can put a dog in a cage and feed it thermal radiation for a thousand years and if it can breed it will still produce a dog.

It would probably kill the dog off first. And if it did manage reproduce, the pup would probably be sterile or die off quick. We've done experiments with frogs and fruit flies like this. I would suggest we stick with evolution through natural selection in this thread though.

Big bang is an insult to my intelligence

Reality can be really harsh sometimes. There is viable proof it happened though-- the universe is surrounded by a shield of background microwave radiation which implies there was a boom somewhere.

[twood312]

What caused the boom? And if so, as I said what caused that which caused the boom? Even the boom had to have a beginning or it can't be possible. So if it is possible that means that it would have to had a cause. Where did the cause of the boom come from? I am not trying to prove creation here folks. I am only stating that you are saying that there was just nothingness, and one day in the expanse of time, something came from nothing. If the universe was created by an enormous explosion, what was there before that to start it? And you say that the story of the biblical flood is hard to believe. We may not be able to understand everything, but do not underestimate the reliability of these things you are so quick to call myths. I have my own view of how cultural and geological history came to be, which is very plausible and is not contrary to religious views on creation. Come on people!!! Prove to me the theory of evolution. Give me an explanation that is feasible!!!! Not just a few scientific viewpoints, and ideas! The latest version of the big bang is that the universe is expanding every day. Well how in the world does such a huge explosion in a place where there is constant speed from an objects movement, seem to be moving our universe apart at such a slow rate. An explosion that powerful would obviously have already moved our solar system out of its alignment by now, seeing as how its been millions of years. Explain the constant order of our solar system throughout recorded history if we are supposedly moving in an ever widening, chaotic, pattern. Shouldn't our solar system be scattered to the for winds of the universe by now?

[Falconer02]

Hey Twood-- could you separate your sentences into paragraphs for us please? No offense-- it's just hard to keep my place.

You seem to know what you are talking about. So give me the data. Big Bang happened? Prove it! What did the big bang consist of? What caused it? Something had to. What was the something and where did it come from?  Was it energy? Where did this mysterious energy come from?

We have yet to discover these things. There is only speculation. And yelling "GOD DID IT GOD DID IT" is just as bad as looking at a rainbow in the past and saying the same thing. We don't know (yet).

Creationism takes no more faith than evolution.

Evolution (science) is based on fact and speculation (hypotheses). Not faith. That's for religion. Two completely different things.

But I see more explanation for my life in the belief of creation then I do in nothing.

I really hate to get personal so please forgive me, but do you believe everything in the bible? Do you implore the existence the creationist museum?

If it is true, what are we here for, and what is your purpose in life but to be born and to die. A persons life basically has no meaning.

This bends to philosophy though! This is a good thing! You give it meaning personally and embrace the mystery of the universe. Religion enslaves fearful people and philosophies whereas evolution leaves room for the infinite. Metaphorically with religion you are given your food and that's all you can eat. Without it, you are free to choose whatever you want.

But what if I am right and you are the one who is wrong? Where does that leave you?

Well then that is one hell of a lottery number you picked. The thing is there are so many people out there with different beliefs that think they're right just as you do. Us agnostics and atheists just don't like the lottery. It's too defined in an unrealistic sense for us. Does this make sense? Fyi I respect your beliefs-- I'm just throwing some skepticism into the mix.

EDIT:

Explain the constant order of our solar system throughout recorded history if we are supposedly moving in an ever widening, chaotic, pattern. Shouldn't our solar system be scattered to the for winds of the universe by now?

We are so small and miniscule in the universes size and timescale that we may never witness massive changes like these. That's not proof that they aren't happening though. We have witnessed many changes and movements in the universe. I'd go further into it, but I must get going for a while here. Sorry.

[twood312]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do believe the biblical story of creation.
I find no problem with it. It actually explains many things.
No, I cannot say I can rightly interpret it all. Or validate the issue of its interpretation over time.
I am quite happy with my life and the idea of a creator. I see nothing that hinders me from being who I am.
I believe we all have free will to do as we please or believe as we want. But that does not mean I believe that all things are wise, or right, or beneficial.
I am simply asking for someone to please prove to me that evolution is true.
"Hypothesis", by the way, is merely a fancier way to say "theory".
Science has proven nothing concerning the big bang, OR macroevolution! It has only "hypothesized."
"to defined in an unrealistic sense"? What is remotely realistic about the idea that something came from nothing?
Somebody please, please explain this to me!!!!

[Falconer02]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do believe the biblical story of creation. I find no problem with it. It actually explains many things.

Agnostics and atheists find this as a simple and closed route because it is incapable of change and produces ignorance to anything else that does not fit the religions viewpoint (not just christianity mind you). Science does the exact opposite-- it welcomes change and is willing to admit when it's wrong about something. Much like Edisons lightbulb, evolution has had many problems proving what works in nature and what does not. But once we have figured out how natural selection produces change over time (be it a small or large time frame), we have capitalized on that and found amazing things about life on this planet.

Correct me if I'm wrong here-- what I find strange is you find no problem in faithfully believing in a source that contains a talking snake, a man made from dirt and a woman made from a rib, a man parting a sea, a man building a humongous boat and getting every pair of animal in it, a man who draws strength from his hair, a jewish carpenter with super powers who has similar qualities to many different myths from previous cultures, etc. etc. Just think about the legitimacy in this vs. evolutionary theories.

I am simply asking for someone to please prove to me that evolution is true.

Technology! lol
Watch this-- VERY easy to follow and makes many good points. One of my favs-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ3Jh7fc
Edit: Okay so it's kind of offensive to christians...

What is remotely realistic about the idea that something came from nothing?

It didn't come from nothing. Queen already answered you on this-- "Something didn't come from nothing.  It is quite possible that energy has always existed, and it at least existed within a singularity that was the Big Bang...a.k.a. not "nothing"!"

[templescroll]

When I got into my car yesterday, a yellow jacket (wasp) landed on the outside of my car window. I rolled down the window to shew it away and it started to fly in the window so a rolled up the window real quick! It climbed onto the side mirror and scurried around. I grabbed a newspaper and wound the window back down to shew it away...it flew to the rear side window! when I wound the window back up again...it flew BACK to the SIDE MIRROR and sat there moving its antenae and cocking its head. so I started the car and drove, thinking it would fly away! It was clinging on the mirror! I was afraid to open my window even though it was really HOT IN THE CAR. SO, I pulled over to the curb and gave my son, the rolled up paper. I told him to go around the back side of the car and sneak up stealthy behind it and shew the thing away. My son wasn't even behind the car yet...when IT SUDDENLY CLIMBED into a crevace in the corner OF THE MIRROR FRAME! I told my son to get back into the car and I started the engine. THE YELLOW JACKET CLIMBED OUT OF THE MIRROR frame and flew up and started fidgeting around the seal of MY WINDOW making loud buzzing sounds!!! I drove over to Starbucks a few blocks away...parked...jumped out of the car on MY SON'S SIDE...and stood on the side walk. From that distance we watched for several minutes while 'Cujo' the yellow jacket thoroughly examined my car's exterior. ( It was creepy & astonishing.) Until it finally flew away.

[twood312]

I continue to hear this talk about energy(that may!) have existed, and now the possibility of inorganic matter as the source. Again I ask you what is the source of the source? What started it? In order for their to be energy or inorganic matter, something had to put it there. Energy can not produce more energy than it consumes, if it could we would have been able to replicate perpetual motion by now, and would have no need for the worlds current energy sources. You are all saying "look at this", or "how about this", but no one has been able to answer my question.
Where did the source originate from? What cause it?
As I said, you cannot answer energy or inorganic matter, unless you are willing to admit that there was something there to cause the energy or matter to exist.
By refusing to acknowledge this question you are indeed saying you believe something came from nothing.
I happen to believe that at one time there wasn't a universe as we know it. But through intelligent design, one was made by a creator. If there is a God out there, then it is possible.
I have a easy explanation for the origin of a complex and diverse universe, evolutionist do not.
And fyi: there are hordes of geneticist's, physicist's, biologist's, astronomer's, and scientist's of all field's who believe in the possibility of intelligent design.
And everyday in the field of science more and more holes are being shot into the theory of evolution.
And the number of scientist's who see no other way but through intelligent design is growing.

[queenofnines]

What caused the boom?

We don't know yet.  But I'm sure scientists will find out in my lifetime.

And if so, as I said what caused that which caused the boom? Even the boom had to have a beginning or it can't be possible.

Allow me to interrupt this statement by saying...what caused god?  Why does he/she/it get a free pass on he/she/it's origins?  If a magical sky daddy is allowed to have always existed, so then could the elements that make up our current universe.  Now I'm not a scientist, but I think it is highly possible that Big Bangs of some sort have been happening forever.  Once our current universe snuffs it via heat death or the like, eventually the whole process of creation will begin anew.  And that is my answer for what happened before the Big Bang, and what will happen after this universe is destroyed.

Watch this great video on the Big Bang: Big Bang ! With Evidence - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqJ2eEzD3o&feature=related

[jordandog]

You need to stop for just a minute and realize that what you have said regarding Intelligent Design shoots DOWN the entire Creationist Theory and thus the theory that God was in fact the Creator of all we know.

Biblical creationists and other theists object to Intelligent Design as failing to identify the alleged designer as the Christian/Creationist God. You are therefore contradicting yourself.

I have a easy explanation for the origin of a complex and diverse universe, evolutionist do not.
And fyi: there are hordes of geneticist's, physicist's, biologist's, astronomer's, and scientist's of all field's who believe in the possibility of intelligent design.

Of course scientists believe in inteliigent design, they use it everyday.  They evaluate the evidence objectively without a pre-determined rule of interpretation that dictates that only unintelligent causes can be considered. It is used by archeologists, forensic scientists and investigators, cryptanalysis (code-breaking), arson investigators, and many more. They evaluate the evidence objectively - there is no pre-determined rule of interpretation that dictates that only unintelligent causes can be considered.