Dispute in Arizona

[Falconer02]

The answer to why they are against this bill/law is they are attention wanting whores...plan and simple.

They just don't want to be harrassed is all. Here's a perfect example--

I'm just waiting for some idiot to stop me walking down the street and demand Id. He's gonna get 1) a hard time, 2) an earful and 3)a lawsuit. I'M AN AMERICAN.

Indeed you are. This is exactly what my coworker said when we were arguing about it. He mentioned what he thinks is a much more effective method of getting illegals out of the country-- any business owner hiring illegals gets immediate jailtime. No fines. 1 illegal = 1 month, 2 = 2 months, etc. They'll want to cover their own butts so they'll get rid of them. (Edit: Does anyone know if this is a law practiced already?) The problem is that this is somewhat of a different target than originally intended; the original being drug trafficers.

[jordandog]

Falconer, we JUST had a restaurant owner here in my city in Ohio that was fined a huge amount and given, I believe, 3 years prison time. He had hired illegals repeatedly, in all of his restaurants, and had been watched for quite a long time. Of course, the 'taxman' was the one who eventually got him on stacks of missing filings and paperwork.

[Falconer02]

Well hey! Thanks for the quick reply and answer. I guess they should enforce this much harder everywhere. But who knows if it will apply splash damage to the drug traffic? Would it decline or amplify?

[stokeman455]

     Hey (jordandog)!!! Where in the BUCKEYE STATE are you from???

[hwilliams591]

I've lived in Arizona since 1963. Second generation on my mother's side an My fathers family is traceable to before 1800I read and write English, Spanish And French. When I go to Mexico I pass as a light skinned Mexican. I know several Mexicans with red hair, green eyes, skin lighter than mine and more freckles than face. I know a lot of full blooded Americans with skin darker than mine. Does that make them Illegal?. A good friend of mine from the San Carlos Apache Tribe was stopped the other week and asked for his 'papers'. by some white boy with less brains than bullets. I don't drink, I don't drive, I don't use tobacco. I don't pack ID unless I'm going to the bank and then its a card with my picture and date of birth that I opened my account with. I'm just waiting for some idiot to stop me walking down the street and demand Id. He's gonna get 1) a hard time, 2) an earful and 3)a lawsuit. I'M AN AMERICAN.

And this says it all...
First of all you seem to know very little of this law.

This is NOT a new LAW...the only differnce is it is now enforced by local law enforcement instead of just federal...which didn't do their job in the first place.

Read the law and understand it!
If some how they do stop you they wont be the IDIOT if you have that additude...LOL

Read statics and you will see immagration is a huge problem.

Did you people not know that Immagration has the right to ask for your papers, ID, PassPort in other countries...SO whats the difference here.

If half the people that were against this would read and use alittle commonsense then they would see this for what it is and not make themselves look like idiots!

[dmalsbury]

solve the border problem by legalising marijuana and maybe everything. Remove the profit to the drug cartels! Freedom ...

[walksalone11]

I've lived in Arizona since 1963. Second generation on my mother's side an My fathers family is traceable to before 1800I read and write English, Spanish And French. When I go to Mexico I pass as a light skinned Mexican. I know several Mexicans with red hair, green eyes, skin lighter than mine and more freckles than face. I know a lot of full blooded Americans with skin darker than mine. Does that make them Illegal?. A good friend of mine from the San Carlos Apache Tribe was stopped the other week and asked for his 'papers'. by some white boy with less brains than bullets. I don't drink, I don't drive, I don't use tobacco. I don't pack ID unless I'm going to the bank and then its a card with my picture and date of birth that I opened my account with. I'm just waiting for some idiot to stop me walking down the street and demand Id. He's gonna get 1) a hard time, 2) an earful and 3)a lawsuit. I'M AN AMERICAN.

And this says it all...
First of all you seem to know very little of this law.

This is NOT a new LAW...the only differnce is it is now enforced by local law enforcement instead of just federal...which didn't do their job in the first place.

Read the law and understand it!
If some how they do stop you they wont be the IDIOT if you have that additude...LOL

Read statics and you will see immagration is a huge problem.

Did you people not know that Immagration has the right to ask for your papers, ID, PassPort in other countries...SO whats the difference here.

If half the people that were against this would read and use alittle commonsense then they would see this for what it is and not make themselves look like idiots!

Speaking of "idiots" IE: people who speak of what they know little or nothing about, How about if you read the statistics concerning the number of "legals" who were detained for long durations, forced to submit to demeaning and demoralizing searches and interrogation, usually for unfounded reasons, by the border patrol, when they were given to broad of powers which enabled them to harass innocents for fun or as punishment for not merrily submitting quickly enough, to their rude, rough and unreasonable demands.

Illiteracy is an even more wide spread problem in this country.....spell check is your friend.

[hwilliams591]

I've lived in Arizona since 1963. Second generation on my mother's side an My fathers family is traceable to before 1800I read and write English, Spanish And French. When I go to Mexico I pass as a light skinned Mexican. I know several Mexicans with red hair, green eyes, skin lighter than mine and more freckles than face. I know a lot of full blooded Americans with skin darker than mine. Does that make them Illegal?. A good friend of mine from the San Carlos Apache Tribe was stopped the other week and asked for his 'papers'. by some white boy with less brains than bullets. I don't drink, I don't drive, I don't use tobacco. I don't pack ID unless I'm going to the bank and then its a card with my picture and date of birth that I opened my account with. I'm just waiting for some idiot to stop me walking down the street and demand Id. He's gonna get 1) a hard time, 2) an earful and 3)a lawsuit. I'M AN AMERICAN.

And this says it all...
First of all you seem to know very little of this law.

This is NOT a new LAW...the only differnce is it is now enforced by local law enforcement instead of just federal...which didn't do their job in the first place.

Read the law and understand it!
If some how they do stop you they wont be the IDIOT if you have that additude...LOL

Read statics and you will see immagration is a huge problem.

Did you people not know that Immagration has the right to ask for your papers, ID, PassPort in other countries...SO whats the difference here.

If half the people that were against this would read and use alittle commonsense then they would see this for what it is and not make themselves look like idiots!

Speaking of "idiots" IE: people who speak of what they know little or nothing about, How about if you read the statistics concerning the number of "legals" who were detained for long durations, forced to submit to demeaning and demoralizing searches and interrogation, usually for unfounded reasons, by the border patrol, when they were given to broad of powers which enabled them to harass innocents for fun or as punishment for not merrily submitting quickly enough, to their rude, rough and unreasonable demands.

Illiteracy is an even more wide spread problem in this country.....spell check is your friend.

Grammer police usually come out when someone has no idea what they are talking about. Any idiot can copy cut and paste!

And as it has been said before how does this have anything to do with the topic here!
Illiteracy is a problem isn't it?

If you want to dispute anything I said then go for it, although anyone with any commonsense would have a hard time.....I'm sure you will find something to copy/cut/paste.

One flaw I see in your post is you are not innocent if you are illegal....simple as that. Did they need to be treated as they did...that is an entirely different topic.
But if you are all for it you should be boycotting the countries that do far worst for catching those that are illegal with no proper documention.

[Falconer02]

Grammer police usually come out when someone has no idea what they are talking about. Any idiot can copy cut and paste!

First off, it's 'Grammar'. I make this mistake too sometimes but, secondly, the g-police come out because it's difficult to trust someones intelligence when they cannot even spell correctly. It's like an unwritten forum law on the internet.

If you want to dispute anything I said then go for it, although anyone with any commonsense would have a hard time

Well you haven't really given us any cold hard facts. Just opinions and then calling people idiots who don't think like you. Example-- you said it's easy to become a US citizen. Unless you're born here or get married to a citizen, it really isn't. There's nothing wrong with cut and pasting things if they pertain to the argument (I just wish they were smaller excerpts).

[hwilliams591]

Grammer police usually come out when someone has no idea what they are talking about. Any idiot can copy cut and paste!

First off, it's 'Grammar'. I make this mistake too sometimes but, secondly, the g-police come out because it's difficult to trust someones intelligence when they cannot even spell correctly. It's like an unwritten forum law on the internet.

If you want to dispute anything I said then go for it, although anyone with any commonsense would have a hard time

Well you haven't really given us any cold hard facts. Just opinions and then calling people idiots who don't think like you. Example-- you said it's easy to become a US citizen. Unless you're born here or get married to a citizen, it really isn't. There's nothing wrong with cut and pasting things if they pertain to the argument (I just wish they were smaller excerpts).

Here we go again. Save the grammar comments for someone that cares.

I don't need to spoon feed those that can't see common sense when it is right in front of them. You want facts look them up...you should really read and understand the law since you obviously don't based on your comments!

Cut/Copy/Paste big long *bleep* comments on a subject that has very little to nothing to do with the topic is unnessecary.

Becoming a citizen is not hard at all, it can be a lenghty process but is not hard. And in some cases is very very easy to get.

[walksalone11]

Grammer police usually come out when someone has no idea what they are talking about. Any idiot can copy cut and paste!

First off, it's 'Grammar'. I make this mistake too sometimes but, secondly, the g-police come out because it's difficult to trust someones intelligence when they cannot even spell correctly. It's like an unwritten forum law on the internet.

If you want to dispute anything I said then go for it, although anyone with any commonsense would have a hard time

Well you haven't really given us any cold hard facts. Just opinions and then calling people idiots who don't think like you. Example-- you said it's easy to become a US citizen. Unless you're born here or get married to a citizen, it really isn't. There's nothing wrong with cut and pasting things if they pertain to the argument (I just wish they were smaller excerpts).

Here we go again. Save the grammar comments for someone that cares.

I don't need to spoon feed those that can't see common sense when it is right in front of them. You want facts look them up...you should really read and understand the law since you obviously don't based on your comments!

Cut/Copy/Paste big long *bleep* comments on a subject that has very little to nothing to do with the topic is unnessecary.

Becoming a citizen is not hard at all, it can be a lenghty process but is not hard. And in some cases is very very easy to get.

Try to follow me here, smart guy. I'll try to type R....E....A....L slow.

Several centuries ago before there were any Spanish, or Italian, or English, colonizers on this continent, which we know as Turtle Island, and extends from the southern tip of South American to far northern Canada, as they are known today, there was only one race of people here.

There were no Mexicans, Americans, Canadians, or what you know as Native American etc.
There were only the single race of folks who were and arethe Indigenous of this continent.

In other words, so you can understand, everyone on this continent were what you call Indians.
Later, various colonizers such as the Spanish and the English arrived with their weird ideas concerning land ownership, and eventually made up all these make believe lines, which they placed onto their maps and declared them borders.

Now, often times these imaginary lines went right through the middle of villages and "Indian" towns.
The people, although immediately related, were divided into what you call "Americans and Mexicans". and were forbidden to cross this invisible line in the sand, unless given permission.

Getting permission was, and still is very difficult. One must jump through all sorts of hoops and do all manner of tricks for the entertainment of those who decide these things. Then after doing every thing asked, waiting many years usually, one may or may not be allowed to go visit Gram'Ma on the other side of the border.

Now, as a rule, most of us, us being the Indigenous of Turtle Island, recognize the "border" as pertaining to us and we have the right, ifted to us by Creator, which a mere man can not revoke, to travel any where on The Great Turtle Island that we wish, no permission necessary.

The small difference between the NDNs north of the border and those south of the border is due to the different cultures which were forced upon us.

Our Relatives, south of your border, may have been forced to some what assimilate into a more Spanish culture, they are still our Kinsmen.

We are all Indigenous of Turtle Island and as such can not be illegal immigrants to Turtle Island.
Any, who came to this continent and settled, without asking or being welcomed by the appropriate tribal Nation of the area they first arrived in, were, are and will forever be, the true ILLEGALS.

Now, very very few of us would ever consider asking anyone to leave, simply because the belief systems of many of ou Nations are such that we believe that Creator put the earth were he did for all to share, period.

So no, we wont ask you to leave, but very many of us are not going to ask you if we can travel around at will on the continent we are indigenous to.

I could go on and on on this subject but hopefully by now you can get some small inkling as to how the YOUR immigration issue, pertains to Native Americans, as you call us(I am not american any thing, I am Tsalagi!)

[Falconer02]

Here we go again. Save the grammar comments for someone that cares.

Wll u shold reely cansidar it dude.

I don't need to spoon feed those that can't see common sense when it is right in front of them. You want facts look them up...you should really read and understand the law since you obviously don't based on your comments!

If you're too lazy to explain it yourself, we're all skeptical of your opinion now. No offense, but you just really nullified your argument here. If you've got stories or facts, share them with us! We're all ears.

Becoming a citizen is not hard at all, it can be a lenghty process but is not hard.

It is very hard to become a US Citizen. Even to get a Visa it's extremely hard. Especially for people in a poor country. Unless you have personal experience or sources to prove otherwise...here's the proof.
- It's based on a first-come first-serve basis. In most cases this can take more than half a decade to get. If a whole family wants to become citizens, the cost can reach 4 digit numbers.
- Mexicans have to pay a lot of money to get an appointment at an embassy just to get a Visa. They then have to convince officials that they won't stay in the US when it expires which in itself is difficult-- the majority do not meet the expectations.
- You have to take classes-- ESL courses in particular. These are also extremely expensive even at Community Colleges. So juggling a job and courses is very difficult.

And in some cases is very very easy to get.

If you speak english and come from a rich family...sure!

[hwilliams591]

Grammer police usually come out when someone has no idea what they are talking about. Any idiot can copy cut and paste!

First off, it's 'Grammar'. I make this mistake too sometimes but, secondly, the g-police come out because it's difficult to trust someones intelligence when they cannot even spell correctly. It's like an unwritten forum law on the internet.

If you want to dispute anything I said then go for it, although anyone with any commonsense would have a hard time

Well you haven't really given us any cold hard facts. Just opinions and then calling people idiots who don't think like you. Example-- you said it's easy to become a US citizen. Unless you're born here or get married to a citizen, it really isn't. There's nothing wrong with cut and pasting things if they pertain to the argument (I just wish they were smaller excerpts).

Here we go again. Save the grammar comments for someone that cares.

I don't need to spoon feed those that can't see common sense when it is right in front of them. You want facts look them up...you should really read and understand the law since you obviously don't based on your comments!

Cut/Copy/Paste big long *bleep* comments on a subject that has very little to nothing to do with the topic is unnessecary.

Becoming a citizen is not hard at all, it can be a lenghty process but is not hard. And in some cases is very very easy to get.

Try to follow me here, smart guy. I'll try to type R....E....A....L slow.

Several centuries ago before there were any Spanish, or Italian, or English, colonizers on this continent, which we know as Turtle Island, and extends from the southern tip of South American to far northern Canada, as they are known today, there was only one race of people here.

There were no Mexicans, Americans, Canadians, or what you know as Native American etc.
There were only the single race of folks who were and arethe Indigenous of this continent.

In other words, so you can understand, everyone on this continent were what you call Indians.
Later, various colonizers such as the Spanish and the English arrived with their weird ideas concerning land ownership, and eventually made up all these make believe lines, which they placed onto their maps and declared them borders.

Now, often times these imaginary lines went right through the middle of villages and "Indian" towns.
The people, although immediately related, were divided into what you call "Americans and Mexicans". and were forbidden to cross this invisible line in the sand, unless given permission.

Getting permission was, and still is very difficult. One must jump through all sorts of hoops and do all manner of tricks for the entertainment of those who decide these things. Then after doing every thing asked, waiting many years usually, one may or may not be allowed to go visit Gram'Ma on the other side of the border.

Now, as a rule, most of us, us being the Indigenous of Turtle Island, recognize the "border" as pertaining to us and we have the right, ifted to us by Creator, which a mere man can not revoke, to travel any where on The Great Turtle Island that we wish, no permission necessary.

The small difference between the NDNs north of the border and those south of the border is due to the different cultures which were forced upon us.

Our Relatives, south of your border, may have been forced to some what assimilate into a more Spanish culture, they are still our Kinsmen.

We are all Indigenous of Turtle Island and as such can not be illegal immigrants to Turtle Island.
Any, who came to this continent and settled, without asking or being welcomed by the appropriate tribal Nation of the area they first arrived in, were, are and will forever be, the true ILLEGALS.

Now, very very few of us would ever consider asking anyone to leave, simply because the belief systems of many of ou Nations are such that we believe that Creator put the earth were he did for all to share, period.

So no, we wont ask you to leave, but very many of us are not going to ask you if we can travel around at will on the continent we are indigenous to.

I could go on and on on this subject but hopefully by now you can get some small inkling as to how the YOUR immigration issue, pertains to Native Americans, as you call us(I am not american any thing, I am Tsalagi!)

LOL.....you can type as slow as you want but you are still way out in left field.

Either you had a issue well before this new law was passed or you are just crying for attention. As I have said this is nothing new....this has been the law for years and years. THE only difference is local authorities can now do the job that the federal gov couldn't.

Honestly I never heard of the Turtle Island, Tsalagi or who ever other people you are crying about and don't care as it is not what this topic was about in the first place. You are the only one on your page, but I will say I have always agreed with the immigration law that has been there forever!

[hwilliams591]

Here we go again. Save the grammar comments for someone that cares.

Wll u shold reely cansidar it dude.

I don't need to spoon feed those that can't see common sense when it is right in front of them. You want facts look them up...you should really read and understand the law since you obviously don't based on your comments!

If you're too lazy to explain it yourself, we're all skeptical of your opinion now. No offense, but you just really nullified your argument here. If you've got stories or facts, share them with us! We're all ears.

Becoming a citizen is not hard at all, it can be a lenghty process but is not hard.

It is very hard to become a US Citizen. Even to get a Visa it's extremely hard. Especially for people in a poor country. Unless you have personal experience or sources to prove otherwise...here's the proof.
- It's based on a first-come first-serve basis. In most cases this can take more than half a decade to get. If a whole family wants to become citizens, the cost can reach 4 digit numbers.
- Mexicans have to pay a lot of money to get an appointment at an embassy just to get a Visa. They then have to convince officials that they won't stay in the US when it expires which in itself is difficult-- the majority do not meet the expectations.
- You have to take classes-- ESL courses in particular. These are also extremely expensive even at Community Colleges. So juggling a job and courses is very difficult.

And in some cases is very very easy to get.

If you speak english and come from a rich family...sure!

It has nothing to do with laziness.

I have worked at various immigration facilities, from prisons to main offices.
Yes it is a first come first serve service, which is why there are plenty of people there each day.
Yes there is government assistance that can aid in the process.

I know a entire Vietnamese family that got government assistance, housing assistance and job assistance.....all in a very short amount of time. I always thought Vietnam was a poor country! I know they didn't have much of anything when they got here, but are doing very well for themselves now.

I know some that the process to get full documentation of citizenship has taken a long time but it is not like they had to jump through hops every single day to get it. And they were still give documents to continue to work and live here as a citizen as they were doing the RIGHT thing.

I have known some that have had to take classes...english, but never seen money play into it.

Now you'll probably want their socials, date of birth and phone numbers to confirm it. 






 

[walksalone11]

I never heard of the Turtle Island, Tsalagi or who ever other people you are crying about and don't care

That is basically all you ever had to post in this thread.

That sentence shows that you are simply an un-educated red neck that has the usual "I am right, and you are wrong, end of story" self absorbed, supremacist attitude of the ruling class in this hemisphere.

However, you lack the knowledge of the subject matter to make an intelligent argument as to why you are right.

My suggestion to you would be to take Obama up on one of his grants and go get educated before injecting your self into a discussion you have no knowledge of and showing your ignorance.

Come on back once you finish that education that your parents tax dollars, bought and paid for.......they didn't pay me to teach you any thing and I wouldn't be interested were they to try to.

Right now you are just an embarrassment to your relatives......go make them proud.