The Satanic Bible

[liljp617]

I personally think satanism is a religion about selfishness.

The Satanist would say it's a religion of self-interest. After all, they do believe in doing for others, so long as the sentiment is reciprocated.

And do-ho-ho, my topic got one star. Didn't see that coming. 

Yes they believe in doing things for others IF they get something good in return it's like they only care for themselves.
Self-interest selfishness same thing.

Are you saying that I gave your topic one star? Because I definitely didn't.

Just about every religion does the exact same thing.  Hell, human nature revolves around such an idea.  You do this for me, I'll help you out sometime later.  You give to charity, I'll let you in heaven and give you eternal life.  So on and so forth.  To say Satanism is selfish based on its idea that you expect something in return for doing a favor is to say every religion is selfish; it is to say humans are selfish.


And frankly, it's something I agree with.  Now the question is, why do people think this form of reciprocity is a negative aspect of life?  Would anything get done if it wasn't for this idea of reciprocity?  Do you really believe in a form of "true altruism," where people do things with no intention of getting anything back (including a favor returned or even an emotional feeling you get for doing something nice)?

[laceybriglia]

liljp617,
That is how it should be. I help friends out all the time and I do not expect anything in return. That is what a true friend does. That is what a good person does. I care about my family and friends so much, I even care about some more than I care for myself. You obviously don't understand the concept of satanism. I think you should look more into it because there is so much more to it then what angel has posted here. They agree their religion is selfish. If you go to the church of satan website it states this:"At the same time, Satanism is a “brutal” as well as a selfish philosophy." also this qoute "Satanism is a wholly self-centered philosophy" They know they are selfish. That is what they do and that is what they believe. They believe that you should only care about one self. I agree all humans are selfish to an extent but satanists take that selfishness to a level beyond.

You give to charity, I'll let you in heaven and give you eternal life.
I have no idea where you got this from. Just because some people give to charity does not mean that they are going to heaven. God never said that. Maybe some  people believe if they do good for others that they will go to heaven. You cannot buy your way into heaven and I honestly do not know where you got that idea. Any person with any knowledge of the bible will tell you that your statement is nonsense.

[liljp617]

liljp617,
That is how it should be. I help friends out all the time and I do not expect anything in return. That is what a true friend does. That is what a good person does. I care about my family and friends so much, I even care about some more than I care for myself. You obviously don't understand the concept of satanism. I think you should look more into it because there is so much more to it then what angel has posted here. They agree their religion is selfish. If you go to the church of satan website it states this:"At the same time, Satanism is a “brutal” as well as a selfish philosophy." also this qoute "Satanism is a wholly self-centered philosophy" They know they are selfish. That is what they do and that is what they believe. They believe that you should only care about one self. I agree all humans are selfish to an extent but satanists take that selfishness to a level beyond.

You give to charity, I'll let you in heaven and give you eternal life.
I have no idea where you got this from. Just because some people give to charity does not mean that they are going to heaven. God never said that. Maybe some  people believe if they do good for others that they will go to heaven. You cannot buy your way into heaven and I honestly do not know where you got that idea. Any person with any knowledge of the bible will tell you that your statement is nonsense.

I know what they're about.  I simply disagree that they take it to a new level.  They're on the same level everyone is -- that is, you do things for others with the expectation that they'll do something for you in the future.  They're simply more up front about it.  They're on the same level as the majority of humans.  They're on the same level as the so called "altruistic" species in the wild.  Their religion is on the same level as most other religions in terms of getting something you want/desire for completing some action.

Of course, it's important to take away the negative connotation people seem to have around the selfishness within Satanism.  LaVey defined selfishness in terms of what a person truly wants.  Thus, if a Satanist wants to express love to someone, he/she should express that love completely, no holding back.  While that love is still done selfishly (it's done solely because the hypothetical Satanist wants to, not because it makes the other person feel loved), it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.  The selfishness of others often has many unintentional, beneficial side effects in our society (ethical egoism).

The second part was a play on the "do good works to achieve eternal salvation," which is quite obviously a huge part of Christianity, specifically Catholicism (along with other religions).  Doing good works is a very prominent official doctrine of the Catholic Church.  I didn't imply or say one could "buy their salvation."  It was an example on how other religions outside of Satanism make promises of rewards for people doing certain actions -- in other words, people being selfish and doing certain acts with the expectation that they'll get what they want out of it.

As for the nonsense part, the Bible, on numerous occasions, states that faith alone will not allow you to obtain salvation.  Likewise, it says you may only obtain salvation through faith, and good works aren't necessary.  You can take your pick on which position, if either, is truthful.  The whole debate around the role of good works is certainly not nonsense; obviously it was important enough to strongly contribute to one of the largest schisms in Christianity's history and one of the most prominent historical events in the modern era.

[angel379227]

Liljp's just doin my work for me. Much obliged, good sir.

[laceybriglia]

I agree with most of what you said.

I agree that most people are selfish. But I think it's to an extent.
And I definitely do not think that this should be a way for people to want to live. I think people should atleast try to care for others. It's a good thing to be selfish in satanism it's like the more selfish you are the better satanist you are. I'm sorry I just don't agree on that. I don't think everyone is as selfish as a satanist. And if everyone were as selfish as a satanist the people in Haiti would have no help. Also, if we all actually went by there ridiculus "rules" we would all be in jail I mean seriously this rule is by far the most ridiculus:
11.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.

That is insane. "destroy" them? With what their super sonic satanism powers? You can't go around "destroying" people i mean seriously. and why are they going to destroy people just because someone is bothering them? Shoot if I followed this religion my little brother would have been "destroyed" years ago.

[Falconer02]

This spiritual shell you reside in must be very comforting, to afford to luxury of viewing the world as either black or white.

"Spiritual shell"  I don't make the rules for God to follow...I  didn't author any part of the Bible.  I don't recall Jesus viewing the world in shades of gray....do you? (Rev 3:14-19, Luke 16:13, Matthew 4: 1-11) Matthew 4:10 (NIV)----Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

After reading this, I'm one to think this is proof Sheryl will never come out of this mindset. 

[angel379227]

It's a good thing to be selfish in satanism it's like the more selfish you are the better satanist you are. I'm sorry I just don't agree on that. I don't think everyone is as selfish as a satanist. And if everyone were as selfish as a satanist the people in Haiti would have no help. Also, if we all actually went by there ridiculus "rules" we would all be in jail I mean seriously this rule is by far the most ridiculus:

Please desist, Lacey. You're understanding of Satanism is below par. I've known quite a few Satanists and they were a lot more kind-hearted and genuine than many of the Christians you'll find today. Just because their precepts encourage you to think of yourself before others does not mean that they're to only think of themselves. The Satanist believes that it's impossible to help others unless you help yourself first-- this logical and sensible idealism does not warrant the degree of criticism and lack of understanding you're showing, purely based off of your preconceptions of what it means to be a Satanist.

You want to talk ridiculous? Let's see you get slapped and then turn the other cheek to invite another.

[walksalone11]

Much of what I do is in honor and repayment for sacrifices my Ancestors made for me and the rest of their relations.
Most of the efforts I make are known only to a very small number of people and much is not known to anyone, except the Ancestors
It is everyone's responsibility to give some thing back. Repaying a debt in no ways entitles the payee to any reward.
One should graciously accept a gift but never without offering something in return, even if that something is merely a sincere "Thank you".

What you guys are talking about is what I know as "paying forward".
Nothing wrong with folks helping each other out I guess or expecting help from our Relations if we really need it, but I don't know that I would go so far as to say anyone "owes me any thing........

[angel379227]

Thank you for contributing more and trolling less, Walks. I very much agree.

[walksalone11]

I was taught to try and maintain balance in all things.
I think that being dead serious all the time is very unhealthy.
Lighten up some times Angel, your face wont crack if you smile or, Gawd forbid, laugh on occasion.,

[angel379227]

Lighten up some times Angel, your face wont crack if you smile or, Gawd forbid, laugh on occasion.

I laugh at you quite often, actually.

I'm just playin, sorta. 

[laceybriglia]

It's a
Please desist, Lacey. You're understanding of Satanism is below par.

I understand satanism perfectly. I just don't agree with it... and in my opinion I think it is a selfish lifestyle. You do not have to agree with me.. I do not care. Many, many satanists agree their lifestyle is extremely selfish. Even the church of satan website agrees. I do not see why you care so much if they are selfish or not. Most will agreee they are.

Quote from Anton Lavey: "Satanism represents a form of controlled selfishness."

[angel379227]

Your opinions on Satanism are of little concern to me, but rather your misinformation and slandering of a severely misunderstood school of thought. You claimed that the more selfish you are the better Satanist you'd be, and that if we all followed their-- ahem-- "ridiculous" rules we would all be in jail. These misconceptions demonstrate that your understanding of Satanism is far from perfect. I'd like to see you provide me with some reasoning for why being a Satanist is the equivalent to being a criminal.

I do love the quote you provided on "controlled selfishness". What do you think he meant by that, exactly?

[liljp617]

I agree with most of what you said.

I agree that most people are selfish. But I think it's to an extent.
And I definitely do not think that this should be a way for people to want to live. I think people should atleast try to care for others. It's a good thing to be selfish in satanism it's like the more selfish you are the better satanist you are. I'm sorry I just don't agree on that. I don't think everyone is as selfish as a satanist. And if everyone were as selfish as a satanist the people in Haiti would have no help. Also, if we all actually went by there ridiculus "rules" we would all be in jail I mean seriously this rule is by far the most ridiculus:
11.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.

That is insane. "destroy" them? With what their super sonic satanism powers? You can't go around "destroying" people i mean seriously. and why are they going to destroy people just because someone is bothering them? Shoot if I followed this religion my little brother would have been "destroyed" years ago.

As has been stated, one of the pivotal aspects of the Satanic ideology is that it is impossible to help others without taking care of yourself first.  

Again, your view of the meaning of selfishness in the context of Satanism is plain incorrect.  I gave you an example in my last post about how selfishness can still yield positive benefits.  You mention how Haitians would have no help if everyone were a Satanist -- this is false based on the meaning of the word selfish in Satanism.  If a Satanist wanted to help Haitians, that Satanist should do so with 100% effort by the 'rules' of Satanism.  But again, the catch is that this action of helping is still done selfishly (it's done solely because the Satanist wants to do it, not because it makes other people's lives better).  The question is:  Does it really matter?  Does it matter if the help is done selfishly or done in some "altruistic" sense?  The help gets to Haiti either way.

Let's write it plain as day:  Being a Satanist does not prevent you from helping others.  Being a Satanist does not prevent you from being kind and moral.  Being a Satanist does not prevent you from being a "good" citizen.

The point of the selfishness in Satanism is to put yourself before all others.  That, in no way, prevents you from helping others or being a "good" person.  It merely prevents you from helping others before you've helped yourself, because LaVey believed it to be philosophically and physically impossible to care for others if you don't care for yourself first. 

By the principle of selfishness in Satanism:  If you want to help others, you should do it because you want to, not because it will make that person's life easier.  If you want to love someone and be kind to them, you should express those emotions completely simply because it's what you want.  If you want to be a "good" citizen and vote, participate in politics, uphold the laws of society, etc., then you should do that with 100% effort for no other reason except that you want to.

As I stated earlier, outside of Satanism, selfishness is not some inherently negative force in our society.  People put themselves first all the time and still manage to contribute positively to society, whether intentionally or unintentionally.  Hell, the free-market capitalist system feeds on this idea of greed and selfishness.  The ideology of a democratic-republic feeds on this idea of selfishness in that people vote for the candidate who appeals to them most and people vote for the candidate who they think will give them the most attention based on class, race, religion, etc.  And somehow, on these two predominantly selfish ideologies, this nation went from nothing to arguably the most powerful entity in the world in a mere 160 or so years.


On a side note, let's not start quoting their "ridiculous rules."  I don't feel like getting my Bible out and pulling out the heinous, horribly violent nonsense in there (which people are, by the way, still preaching and following -- go research what the American Family Association wants because of what happened with the killer whale at Seaworld recently).

[angel379227]

Ugh, Marie, had Lavey meant "murder" when he said "destroy" he would have been more direct. That you would automatically assume that from all the definitions of this word he meant "to kill" is evidence that your reasoning is led by your preconceptions of what Satanism should be. Let's review a few of the many definitions for the word "destroy": To subdue or defeat completely; crush, To render useless or ineffective, To ruin completely; spoil.

Satanism does not condone killing except in defense of your own life. Also, I've met a great deal of incarcerated Christians, but not a single one who is Satanist, so I wouldn't be so quick to hand out labels.