I do NOT believe in god

[queenofnines]

Why do people say God kills? God kills no one....
I also think people who tried to write the bible had a hard time understanding God and therefore it's a little mixed up.
This is why I know Atheists and Agnostics never took the time to get to know God on a personal level....leave the bible alone first off because it is not easy to understand and just believe in God, respect him and believe Jesus died for your sins.

God does kill (as in the case of Haiti) and has killed (atrocities of the OT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twSN8ZS_VA).

God's "holy" and "inerrant" word is described as being "a little mixed up" when Christians realize how ludicrous much of it is.

That is an awful judgment and excuse for you to say atheists never "knew" god.  And how correct you are to say, "leave the Bible alone, just believe in Jesus" -- that is exactly the harmful attitude and reality that exists in the Christian world to keep them from ever realizing what a sham the whole thing is.

[laceybriglia]

Good and evil has nothing to do with right and wrong?  What the hell?  They're synonyms!!  I see you are making an excuse here, conveniently navigating away from the contradiction and blowing smoke.
In any event, I ask you: how does eating a piece of fruit have the power to change the neurons in one's brain?  How does eating a piece of fruit magically f*ck up the whole world?  How does eating a piece of fruit have the power to transform one's mortality?  Your answer: it just does.  Reality: it is just like any other mythology story.
Why would god, knowing full well what was going to happen anyway, set up an environment where he knew Adam and Eve would fail?  Why would a loving god throw a tree in there that would kill his children?  Why did god allow the talking snake to be there (never mind how obviously preposterous the notion of a talking snake is)?  God knew what was going to happen, so he set the dominoes in place FOR it to happen.  You can't honestly say that Adam and Eve knew the ramifications of their choice, given you yourself said they did not know what good and evil was yet.  I guess that doesn't matter, though!

First off knowing evil from good is COMPLETELY different than knowing wrong from right... That's ridiculous for you to say otherwise. The words have two different meanings....
Second, God did not know Adam and Eve would sin. They were perfect. His purpose was for them to have offspring and "fill the earth. It was supposed to stay a paradise. When Eve CHOSE to sin. It was her decision. When Adam followed her, he proved that he loved her more than he loved the creator of all things, including himself. We all have the right to choose. Nothing is predestined. Everyone has freewill.  They knew God was their creator and they knew they were suppose to obey him.. but they didn't which led to consequences.

[queenofnines]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o  Everyone posting in this thread should watch it. Though there's lots of swearing in it, it's as hilarious as it is blunt. He's just so charismatic telling his story.

Have watched and added to favorites.  

[laceybriglia]

Heh, I know you are only saying this because you feel threatened and attacked.  Had we been on "your side", telling stories of how awesome god is, we would not be accused of this!  Anyway, who are you to judge what constitutes as something being worthwhile?

I don't feel threatened at all actually. I'm just saying Christians are standing up for what we believe in. Atheists are just bad-mouthing Christianity. I'm just saying I don't spend my time in buddhist or muslim forums telling them how I don't believe it. I think that would be pointless and I would feel pretty dumb.

[Falconer02]

3.) It wasn't a "seeming", I was shocked that the evangelist took both of the old mans shoes off without any warning and he spoke to the foot and I saw it grow out.

This is absolutely crazy. Got a video? Has anyone contested this? You can keep believing in magic if you want. I'll keep believing in James Randi...I'm surprised this evangelical didn't contest Mr. Randi. He could have made a million dollars for his church.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo

"Why people are always drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me. I want to be as sure of the real world around me as is possible. You can only attain that to a certain degree, but I want the greatest degree of control. I want to be as aware as I possibly can. That means giving up a lot of my fantasies that might be comforting in some ways but Im willing to give that up to live in an actual real world." (Mr Randi from the video)
I think this sums up why there are non-believers pretty well.

Atheists are just bad-mouthing Christianity. I'm just saying I don't spend my time in buddhist or muslim forums telling them how I don't believe it. I think that would be pointless and I would feel pretty dumb.

Atheists badmouthing Christianity with the weapon of reality? CALL THE COPS! Christians bash every religion known to man and have a ton of bloodshed on their hands throughout history killing off people that don't agree with them. And you call atheists arguing against religion on a forum dumb. C'mon. If you see it as dumb, I'm sure you can see the hypocracy.

We need more religions in this thread besides christianity.

Maybe you need to look at the big scope of things. YOU NEED to DIE! You will be happier in Heaven anyway. He kills your flesh yeah maybe but who likes taking a crap and getting scars and growing old anyway.Life is a test and you miss have FAILED. You make God out to be some psycho killer but in reality you  have to die, God will have to use natural disasters to do so. It would be odd if we all died the same way. God doesn't KILL you but just take you home. And what the fu*k are you talking about? There is no God remember?

You have threatened and badmouthed a good member of this forum while showing your lack of intelligence once more. Nice work there, mega-troll.

Besides, who cares don't believe in God but I just hope you know you won't change a believer from believing. Anything you can possibly say we have heard it all before. I am done replying but I hope you can get it through your head.

A.) You can change a believer from believing. You just can't comprehend it.
B.) No they obviously haven't. Read from page 1.
c.) No. You're not. You're a troll. You'll be back. You always come back!

[laceybriglia]

Atheists badmouthing Christianity with the weapon of reality? CALL THE COPS! Christians bash every religion known to man and have a ton of bloodshed on their hands throughout history killing off people that don't agree with them. And you call atheists arguing against religion on a forum dumb. C'mon. If you see it as dumb, I'm sure you can see the hypocracy.

You're weapon is not reality it is lies. I don't know any Christians who bash other religons and I know I sure don't. I usually respect other peoples beliefs.. But I no longer respect yours. Only because you all have direspected my religion to no end acting like it's make believe nonsense. You Atheists are the only ones who are believeing nonsense one day I hope you will realize that.. but for now it seems you never will.
Why bother arguing against religon? What are you gaining?
All you are trying to do is make people not believe in God... and you have patheitic reasoning to why you are doing it. If you don't believe it then keep it to yourself. I just want you to know you have only made my belief in God stronger. I feel closer to God than ever. You will never ever make me believe there is no God. You can try but I will always know God is the reason we are all here. The first law of thermodynamics basically states you cannot get something from nothing. Therefore the only explanation  for this universe in an external force.. I know that external force is God. Maybe one day you will realize that God does exist but if you don't then I guess you will always believe a lie.

[queenofnines]

Why bother arguing against religon? What are you gaining?...I guess you will always believe a lie.

We are gaining the possibility of having more people recognize reality -- what is truly true and what our world is actually based on.  We bother arguing because we've been there and we can see that believers such as yourself are not thinking clearly.  I don't mean to be offensive when I say this, but it is a situation similar to doctors looking in on patients who have mental illnesses.  The patients are convinced that what they are experiencing is real, but the doctors who can see reality and have dozens of medical studies to back their claims can clearly observe that the patients are delusional.

I am grateful for the many "atheist" resources available that helped me see reality when I humbly sought them out as a Christian.  The people who devote so much time and care to the books, websites, and videos out there that clearly show a humble seeker the real truth are fighting the good fight.  These people DO make a difference, as it's amazing how many questions they present that you'll realize you overlooked.  They're also happy to take the time to research the things that you yourself may not have bothered to.

That is mind-blowing for you to say that basing one's outlook on reality - what is scientifically tested, rational, and logical - is a "lie"!

[Falconer02]

You're weapon is not reality it is lies.

I like queens mental patient example. You're fitting the bill quite well right now (btw it's "Your" not "You're". 'You're' refers as 'you are'. I AM WEAPON!).

I just want you to know you have only made my belief in God stronger.

Seriously, good for you! But this does mean you feel threatened and attacked due to people simply asking questions about your beliefs. I've been here before as well. Do you not see this? Or are you going to tell me you have a vast knowledge of psychology as well, Niles?  

The first law of thermodynamics basically states you cannot get something from nothing.

Haven't we gone over this already? This is observable evidence in the present, but who's to say we have discovered every scientific law in the entire universe? We're meer mortals incapable of understanding what's out there yet. Surely you know what I mean?

I know that external force is God.

Oh. Nevermind.

Just "god" or "the christian god"? If you say god, sure! I can reasonably accept that. But the christian god? This is the essence of close-mindedness. "I'm right! Everyone else is wrong!...even though I respect their beliefs! Question me!? Now I'm STRONGER! Because I know I'm right! Just like everyone else! LACEY SMASH!" Do me a favor-- you don't have to do it now or tomorrow, but please step out of your current mindset once in a while to listen to other people and their questions. Don't try to fit it in with your beliefs. Let it remain outside of the shell. Forget your rhetoric as it's not effective. Try to see every angle of it. Because even if you say you have, everyone knows you haven't with the way you're writing.

[laceybriglia]

but it is a situation similar to doctors looking in on patients who have mental illnesses.  
That is mind-blowing for you to say that basing one's outlook on reality - what is scientifically tested, rational, and logical - is a "lie"!

You comparing me to a mentally challeged person is just abserd. I think you have it backwards. Scientists have pulled you away from the truth. Things aren't always what they seem. I know you think that Christianity sounds too crazy to be real but it isn't. Just like when you were in kindergarten and they tell you a caterpillar turns into a butterfly. It sounds crazy that a odd looking crawing insect can turn into a beautiful creature such as a butterfly. If I told you this and there was absolutely NO scientific evidence to prove to you that a caterpilaar turns into a butterfly you would call me crazy. But sense we have seen the caterpillar go into it's coccon and change into a butterfly you have no doubt in your mind that it's true. Well we just have no definite scientific evidence that God exists. But please don't doubt something just because it doesn't sound realistic. I bet if scientists never saw the caterpillar change into a butterfly they would have came up with a theory that sounded perfectly and absolutely correct.. They probably would even have "evidence" To where a butterfly comes from. But they would be telling a lie because a butterfly comes from a caterpillar.  God creating this earth isn't as crazy as you are making it sound just because something sounds impossible does not mean it is.

[laceybriglia]

I like queens mental patient example. You're fitting the bill quite well right now (btw it's "Your" not "You're". 'You're' refers as 'you are'. I AM WEAPON!).
Seriously, good for you! But this does mean you feel threatened and attacked due to people simply asking questions about your beliefs. I've been here before as well. Do you not see this? Or are you going to tell me you have a vast knowledge of psychology as well, Niles?  
Try to see every angle of it. Because even if you say you have, everyone knows you haven't with the way you're writing.

I know it's "Your" what is it with you people have you seriously never had a typo? I type very fast and I usually don't overlook what I write.
I honestly am not threatened at all. Everything you have said I have heard before.. maybe I was threatened when I first heard it but honestly nothing you could say could make me feel threatened at this point in my life I already have looked into everything and I know God exists.

I love how you think you know eveything about me... You know nothing. I have doubted God so many times in my life and I have in fact looked on your point of view as well. It's just at this pont I already know what I believe.

[queenofnines]

Final notes on the debate:

Dr. Craig (the Christian) brought up several times how we need a foundation for our morals and that by his circular reasoning, that foundation must be god.  

Hmm.  That is pretty hilarious for him to claim, as we certainly did not get our morals from the Bible!  Neither does any "harmless" Christian follow the morals of the Bible.  Thank god!  Please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twSN8ZS_VA and you'll see what I mean.

Dr. Craig claimed that without god, there are no ultimate morals; that they're all subjective.  He acted horrified by this possibility, but the truth is, that's absolutely right.  There are no ultimate morals; nothing is inherently "bad", it can only be given the label of bad by an individual.  This is a truth that I don't think should be shouted from the rooftops, however, because some idiots will get the wrong idea when learning this.  **It is to our advantage** to have certain standards in how we conduct ourselves, if the goal is to survive and try to have a happy life, anyway.  We're not going to last very long as a species if we don't have consequences for f*cking each other over, and that is the real foundation of our morals!

Another thing I didn't get is how Dr. Craig stated that god could have used evolution if he wanted to, but then a few breaths later said there is "little" evidence for evolution.  He also said that if god made the Big Bang, "how nice of god" to take so much time to craft the universe just for us.  This is what Christians like to do; when they get blown out of the water by science, they'll take ownership of something like evolution as a Plan B for how god did it, even though their Bible clearly says that animals and man were made separately (and within a week time frame, I might add).  

Who are you to assume that the Bible must be littered with asterisks (what I mean is, what gives you the authority to "read between the lines" and make sh*t up when you're clearly contradicted by science?).  Christians are starting to act like the whole freaking Bible is a metaphor,  when really that is just an excuse because secretly they know that talking snakes and stuffing all of the animals of the world on a boat (in addition to a zillion other examples) is nonsense.

[Falconer02]

I love how you think you know eveything about me... You know nothing. I have doubted God so many times in my life and I have in fact looked on your point of view as well. It's just at this pont I already know what I believe.

Like I was stating with my scientific examples, I'm going by with what I have to work with. But when you said 'at this point', I now have more respect for you. Not that I'm trying to make you believe in the devil or anything...I just took it as you're more open then you make yourself out to be. 

[laceybriglia]

Like I was stating with my scientific examples, I'm going by with what I have to work with. But when you said 'at this point', I now have more respect for you. Not that I'm trying to make you believe in the devil or anything...I just took it as you're more open then you make yourself out to be. 

Well I actually said "at this pont." Lol but thanks for not pointing out that typo as well.
I was never trying to make myself out to sound not open.. Because honestly I am an open minded person it's just Christianity is what I believe in and I am going to stand up for my beliefs.

[Falconer02]

Why didn't you say you believe doctors??   There's a doctor that has had patients become clinically dead...and then come back.  While stories of people who die and "see a bright light" are very common, there aren't very many people that want to admit they went to hell like these people did, and the doctor documented it all and put it in his books.

I'm curious so I have just a few quick questions-- Is it just one doctor promoting this? Is/was he christian? Are there others with different beliefs working with him that threw in with his ideas? I'm just very skeptical of a video on medical stories that starts with a verse from the bible is all.

Also, I've had a NDE (5 years old, ripped my spleen open, bleeding internally bad, started coughing up blood, passed out after a while) when I was a kid and had weird visions when I passed out involving people shooting strange-colored fireworks at night that popped into 'triangular' images of Darth Vader. I was a big star wars fan obviously. Is it possible that these people are just so in love with the Christian ideas that their minds play similar images of what they love as it did mine?

[laceybriglia]

Is it possible that these people are just so in love with the Christian ideas that their minds play similar images of what they love as it did mine?

No that's not a possibility considering many of these people didn't even believe in god and if you watched the video Sheryl provided a man talked about hell. He obviously didn't love the idea of hell but saw it.