I do NOT believe in god

[queenofnines]

Okay if the world is like billions of years old then why is the oldest tree about 4,400 years old? Tell me please. Oh and what about the desert I see you completely ignored that. I guess you still are refusing to watch the debate... Whatever.
Also I love how you and lilj continue to call me ignorant just because I have different beliefs than you..for your information I am completely knowledgable of science. I'm not f-ing ignorant.

You expect a tree to live more than a few hundred or thousand years old?  Seriously?  Have you not observed that all living things have a limit on their lifespan?  It's not possible to have one singular tree be a billion or even a million years old; that's just ridiculous for you to expect that!

I'll watch the debate.  Well, as much of it as I can tolerate, anyway.  Depends on how entertaining it is...  In the meantime, can you tell me how many non-Christian sources you've consulted in your quest to discover the real truth about god?

Going back to the definition of ignorant...it's not necessarily calling you stupid, it's saying you have a lack of information from unbiased sources and that you're so emotionally attached to the idea of god that you'll ignore (or make excuses for) the facts that threaten it.

You are completely knowledgeable of science?!  Wow, that is an extremely lofty claim, considering how many sub-fields there are and that experts have to devote DECADES to their field of research and all.  You're not even "completely knowledgeable" on how to spell the word knowledgeable, but we can trust your understanding of the vast, ever-changing field of science?   

[queenofnines]

I am arguing peacefully thank you very much
Lol you're hilarious. You are just flat out making things up. YOU need to learn to argue peacefully because you are the one who called me a naive *bleep*... Grow up.. Seriously. Lol I just can't get over this! It's too funny. LOL! Maybe you should reread the "evidence" You gave where I was being so negative and not arguing peacefully because seriously that is so ridiculous.

Do little kids argue peacefully?  Because your tone is often immature.  You try to defend yourself by fake-laughing over and over again, but to everyone else it just looks...pathetic.

[queenofnines]

I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you just because you don't feel like watching the entire debate.

Man, where have we heard this before?  Oh yeah, when you were asked to cite your sources for your Big Bang paper, you refused to do that as well...can't throw an atheist a bone, I guess!  I thought Christians were supposed to be more helpful than that, especially when it comes to something that would "glorify god"...

As for the Sahara desert, you are coming from the assumption that it was always a desert, when it was not.  Also, you failed to mention that the Sahara desert also CONTRACTS, not just expands; it has not been expanding exponentially like you ignorantly claim it has.  "The climate of the Sahara has undergone enormous variation between wet and dry over the last few hundred thousand years.[12]  During the last glacial period, the Sahara was even bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries.[13]" - Wiki

You also didn't mention the reasons WHY the Sahara desert would become bigger (or smaller).  You give the impression that you think it is just the natural way of things, like how our noses and ears never stop growing, but in reality, expansion is due to: "climate variation (droughts) (13) and to land mismanagement such as overgrazing, increased cultivation, and firewood cutting (8,11)" http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu/docs/005-319/005-319.html

The whole thing just proves you take something you hear in passing without doing the real research yourself and find a way to turn it into stupid "proof" for god.

[Falconer02]

There are a lot of points in that debate and if you want to see my point you would watch the whole thing yourself. I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you just because you don't feel like watching the entire debate.

I really hope you don't act like this on a normal basis. If I were to post an extremely long video, I'd stress people to just watch the critical parts so they'd understand my point rather than throw them a 2.5 hour lecture and tell them "this is why I'm right. Don't want to watch it? Fine. Be ignorant of the truth."

Okay if the world is like billions of years old then why is the oldest tree about 4,400 years old?

The oldest ice core samples measure to be an estimate of 150,000 years old. This method has surprisingly been quite accurate as we now have a good understanding of climate changes within the last 70,000 years due to the layering of these samples. Are you one of those extremists that thinks the earth is 6,000 years old?

it's saying you have a lack of information from unbiased sources and that you're so emotionally attached to the idea of god that you'll ignore (or make excuses for) the facts that threaten it.

Better than I could say it. Nicely put. You know what bugs me? I used to be like this growing up with my 'facts'. I get a strange sense of nostalgia reading laceys posts. Very weird.

[Falconer02]

They treat everyone that believes in God this way and is not just towards you. 

Bull. Lacey is capable of arguing-- we're just trying to get his attention to some qualities he should work on. You on the other hand constantly contradict yourself, make believers look bad, and have trolled these threads to no end in the past.

[queenofnines]

You know what's really sad? I used to be like this growing up with my 'facts'. I get a strange sense of nostalgia reading laceys posts. Strange.

Yeah, me too.  When I came away from Christianity, I had to kind of shake my head at myself, thinking of all of the fallacies I never bothered to consider while I was a believer.  How did you get away from it?

Marie has claimed to both believe and not believe in god, Lacey.  Perhaps she is extending friendship because she has also been called a troll.

My notes on the videos thus far:

Dr. Craig says "there's not a convincing argument for atheism".  Well if that we're true, there would be no ex-Christians.  A lot of atheists WERE *true* subscribers to the idea of there being a god.  Like I've said before, though, you have to inherently have to have a certain personality if there is ever hope for you to escape from the lies.  When I actually started to read the Bible as a Christian, for example, I could not ignore how god went around murdering groups of people every other page of the Old Testament.  I could not ignore the ridiculous laws like don't sit on the same furniture as a woman who's on her period, and I started to notice that good things I attributed to god or prayed for in my everyday life could have happened anyway.  I was able to be aware that my being a Christian was a point-blank choice based on no evidence, and it only grew because I found churches that were "fun" and who wouldn't want to give the promise of heaven a try?

Dr. Craig seems to really like speaking in terms of atheism vs. Christianity, which is harmful because it makes it sound like both are religions, when really it should be Christianity vs. disproving your Christian god.  There is so much emphasis on putting labels on atheism, when the term atheist is really only used because it's convenient -- we're used to having a word to describe everything.  Atheists do not have a bunch of dogma attached to their label like Christians do!

Dr. Craig's first "proof" is that either non-believers are saying that the universe came from nothing (which is extremely ignorant), or that if it didn't come from nothing, atheists are claiming infinity, and infinity is not observable and therefore "not possible".  So he is arguing against infinity…but then god is supposed to be infinite.  WTF?  There is no evidence that god is forever other than you saying so!

He goes on to do the odds equation of us being alive...yes it is rare for there to be life, but the fact that we are here talking about it at all shows that the odds are still possible.  Anthropic principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

[laceybriglia]

You are completely knowledgeable of science?!  Wow, that is an extremely lofty claim, considering how many sub-fields there are and that experts have to devote DECADES to their field of research and all.  You're not even "completely knowledgeable" on how to spell the word knowledgeable, but we can trust your understanding of the vast, ever-changing field of science?   

I obviously didn't mean I know everything about science. I meant I am completely knowledgeable of the concept of the big bang theory and other main concepts of science. Oh and have you never had a typo?
Also of course I have read non-christian sources. I mean I told you I doubted God before and that was obviously because I was reading some "non christian sources"
I mean of course all trees have a life-span but it is kinda ironic for the oldest tree to be the same age as when Noah's flood ended. That's a big coincidence...

[laceybriglia]

Do little kids argue peacefully?  Because your tone is often immature.  You try to defend yourself by fake-laughing over and over again, but to everyone else it just looks...pathetic.

I actually do that rarely like maybe once or twice in this entire thread?
Oh and I'm not fake laughing. 

[laceybriglia]

I really hope you don't act like this on a normal basis. If I were to post an extremely long video, I'd stress people to just watch the critical parts so they'd understand my point rather than throw them a 2.5 hour lecture and tell them "this is why I'm right. Don't want to watch it? Fine. Be ignorant of the truth."



Well you act like you know for a fact everything I believe is wrong so I give you one of the  many debates that state a lot of my beliefs and the way I think. I would give you the critical parts but honestly the entire debate is important.

[laceybriglia]

Bull. Lacey is capable of arguing-- we're just trying to get his attention to some qualities he should work on. .

I'm definitely a SHE. And if you are honestly trying to get me to work on some of my qaulities then you need to stop continuously insulting me e.g calling me a naive *bleep*.

[laceybriglia]

Oh, and if I recall, you just called lacey a Troll and a Naive Di*k just because they refuse to give up their belief in God. And by the way Lacey is   

Exactly and thanks for correcting that.
I thought it was pretty obvious Lacey was a female name.

[Falconer02]

you mean non-believers?!? Why would I make believers look bad if I am one myself?!? Oh, and if I recall, you just called lacey a Troll and a Naive Di*k just because they refuse to give up their belief in God.

Nice conclusion, Holmes. Why would an agnostic tell one to give up their belief in god? More importantly, why am I answering to you? I was only stating she was being rude without seeing it herself. She was starting to show signs of trolling-- I just wanted to inform her. So stop shoving words in my mouth and making me look worse than yourself. As has been stated probably a hundred times to you, stop trolling these threads. You're incapable of any form of argument. Now go post 20 paragraphs with purple text or something.

Lacey, you probably have some issues with me, but from a person who cares about your argumentative skills I would highly suggest not taking sides with her. Besides, I thought you were a robot.

stop continuously insulting me e.g calling me a naive *bleep*.

Everything I said was justified in informing you of your attitude. You were being naive and you were being a *bleep* to people with the way you write. Sorry for not making that too clear.

Well you act like you know for a fact everything I believe is wrong so I give you one of the  many debates that state a lot of my beliefs and the way I think. I would give you the critical parts but honestly the entire debate is important.

No I don't. And I bookmarked your vids so hopefully I'll get around to watching them. But judging from queenof9's reviews thus far, I don't know if I should even bother. When did this debate take place btw?

Yeah, me too.  When I came away from Christianity, I had to kind of shake my head at myself, thinking of all of the fallacies I never bothered to consider while I was a believer.  How did you get away from it?

Well I'll try to keep it short because my story would probably be longer than any holy text. Here's the personal part- I grew up as a JW. My parents were very gung-ho on it. I had a lot of friends whose parents were evangelicals. I learned a lot about various stories in the bible and as a kid you obviously accept the mindset thrown at you. When I was a young teen it started to bug me as I realized I didn't need the religious aspect of it. Though I was looked down upon by most of the parents, I moved away from it neutrally (which is very fortunate-- very hard to do with JWs) as I saw all of my friends at that church be disfellowshipped due to their parents' believing  9 year olds have the maturity to lead a sinless life and not thinking about them being average teenagers. That's a whole different story though!

As far as the enlightenment of the fallacies I must thank my friends for that. I'm very fortunate to have a lot of agnostic and atheist friends. Most religious fanatics would call my story a "satan convincing him to the dark side!" tale, but my friends were always great and would argue the reality of things at me because I'd always start arguments with them. Though I read thru matt,mark,luke, and john I decided to start reading the bible for myself cover-to-cover. As I kept going, I realized how psychotic, barbaric, delusional, and wordy it was. I stopped in Deuteronomy somewhere because I was appalled at the book I was defending. It boggled my mind.

Then I saw the big picture-- I realized there was more than just Christianity in the world and every single one of them taught that others' beliefs are wrong. Especially the big ones like Christianity. And it was unfortunate to know that these people were fully capable of seeing through the crap but they didn't. That's when I figured it really was a shell people use for keeping themselves from any other type of questioning thoughts-- a castration of the mind per se. They'll fight tooth-and-nail to use any cop-out they can. Because I know I did. And like you, I look back at that and groan thinking I wasted so much effort on it. But hey, I still have those friends and I learned a lot about the world, didn't I?  

[laceybriglia]

Lacey, you probably have some issues with me, but from a person who cares about your argumentative skills I would highly suggest not taking sides with her. Besides, I thought you were a robot.

stop continuously insulting me e.g calling me a naive *bleep*.

Everything I said was justified in informing you of your attitude. You were being naive and you were being a *bleep* to people with the way you write. Sorry for not making that too clear.



Why would you think I was a robot? lol.  I'm not "taking sides with her." I was just telling her thank you for correcting you're mistake. Also I may have gotten smart with people but I didn't curse at them or purposely try to offend them. Which is obviously what you were doing. I don't care what your pathetic exuses are. It was not "justified" and you were not informing me by cursing at me. If that is how you inform people of their behaviors then you need help.

[Falconer02]

Why would you think I was a robot? lol.  I'm not "taking sides with her." I was just telling her thank you for correcting you're mistake. Also I may have gotten smart with people but I didn't curse at them or purposely try to offend them. Which is obviously what you were doing. I don't care what your pathetic exuses are. It was not "justified" and you were not informing me by cursing at me. If that is how you inform people of their behaviors then you need help.

From one *bleep* to another, you were being a naive *bleep*...or jerk...or rude-person. Whichever you prefer. Choose ya poison, matey!

[laceybriglia]

From one *bleep* to another, you were being a naive *bleep*...or jerk...or rude-person. Whichever you prefer. Choose ya poison, matey!

I love how you pointed me out to be rude/*bleep*/jerk whatever when I was never rude until particular people got pretty rude with me. I think jerk or rude perosn would have been a little more polite then calling me a *bleep*.