For those who claimed I was using the JW's literature for my support of the name

[amyrouse]

Do we know His real secret Old Testament name?  Is it a Salvational issue to know?  Does it gain us entry into Heaven?  Nope.  As far as the JW's calling themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses", it's just a Title like Nazarene, Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc.  What is so disturbing is that they DO believe the New Testament, and still think they are of the 144,000.....among other things.

It isn't a salvational issue to know...but its irritating...especially when comments like this are made (bolded):

1 It has to do with the argument because hallelujah has at least an abbreviation of god's name which doesn't translate to LORD or I AM

2. I'm sorry that I get my education for free and don't pay for it, so I get the best links I can find that are free

3. How do you make a name known if his name is unknown?

4. I have nothing against your Rabbi, in fact I feel your Rabbi knows most of the law in the hebrew bible, HOWEVER, it's possible he is passing down the same things the Pharisees or shadduces taught, they were rabbi's, well versed, most likely accredited and jewish.

5. I never said that JW's didn't get anything wrong or are infallible. I studied the errors of the JW's and I studied the errors of various denominations, in my personal ressearch the JW's had less errors.

Exodus 3:15 reads in NWT, ASV, Young's literal, EMphattic Diaglott, and New Jerusalem 

15 Then God said once more to Moses:

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.


In light of hallelujah or alleluia meaning praise Yah or Jah, is it wise to replace the name with LORD or I AM or any other title? 

Here's a video from an APOSTATE or JW heretic kinda different from falconor though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN0omtviC8

P.S. I'm srry for nipping your quote, for some reason the post box keeps jumping!!!!! This link has some scholar's quotes, rabbi qotes and other *learnt* people with their paper that everyone likes...  http://removinggodsname.xanga.com/525363380/item/

and this:

The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.

I try not to claim I know it all...but, again, I am imperfect...and when I do know something, especially when someone is spreading a falsehood about someone I love...I can't sit back and say nothing about it.

[Annella]

Do we know His real secret Old Testament name?  Is it a Salvational issue to know?  Does it gain us entry into Heaven?  Nope.  As far as the JW's calling themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses", it's just a Title like Nazarene, Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc.  What is so disturbing is that they DO believe the New Testament, and still think they are of the 144,000.....among other things.

It isn't a salvational issue to know...but its irritating...especially when comments like this are made (bolded):

1 It has to do with the argument because hallelujah has at least an abbreviation of god's name which doesn't translate to LORD or I AM

2. I'm sorry that I get my education for free and don't pay for it, so I get the best links I can find that are free

3. How do you make a name known if his name is unknown?

4. I have nothing against your Rabbi, in fact I feel your Rabbi knows most of the law in the hebrew bible, HOWEVER, it's possible he is passing down the same things the Pharisees or shadduces taught, they were rabbi's, well versed, most likely accredited and jewish.

5. I never said that JW's didn't get anything wrong or are infallible. I studied the errors of the JW's and I studied the errors of various denominations, in my personal ressearch the JW's had less errors.

Exodus 3:15 reads in NWT, ASV, Young's literal, EMphattic Diaglott, and New Jerusalem  

15 Then God said once more to Moses:

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.


In light of hallelujah or alleluia meaning praise Yah or Jah, is it wise to replace the name with LORD or I AM or any other title?  

Here's a video from an APOSTATE or JW heretic kinda different from falconor though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN0omtviC8

P.S. I'm srry for nipping your quote, for some reason the post box keeps jumping!!!!! This link has some scholar's quotes, rabbi qotes and other *learnt* people with their paper that everyone likes...  http://removinggodsname.xanga.com/525363380/item/

and this:

The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.

I try not to claim I know it all...but, again, I am imperfect...and when I do know something, especially when someone is spreading a falsehood about someone I love...I can't sit back and say nothing about it.

Okay....did I miss something?  I don't see where he attacked someone you love, and spread a falsehood.  I must have missed that.  I really have no idea what your referring to, unless it's your Rabbi?  

He said it was "possible" he (your Rabbi) could be passing down information that has been passed down from generation to generation as the Pharisees or Sadduces (spelled wrong), of old.  Unless he said something else more damaging, that is just a "debate" sentence.

Only pointing out that there are so many varied beliefs on here.  I fully understand irritation when someone tells you something "off the wall" about something you have studied out for countless hours, gotten the spiritual interpretation, backed it with scripture, and they still make you feel you have no idea what your talking about.

[amyrouse]

Okay....did I miss something?  I don't see where he attacked someone you love, and spread a falsehood.  I must have missed that.  I really have no idea what your referring to, unless it's your Rabbi? 

He said it was "possible" he (your Rabbi) could be passing down information that has been passed down from generation to generation as the Pharisees or Sadduces (spelled wrong), of old.  Unless he said something else more damaging, that is just a "debate" sentence.

Only pointing out that there are so many varied beliefs on here. 

I don't think I said he attacked someone I love...

Plus, I did not appreciate what he said about my rabbi, or his crack about using free websites.  Call me sensitive, but that was wrong.

I try to be conscientious about the varied beliefs on here, and I try not to get into any namecalling or mudslinging on here...although namecalling and mudslinging has happened on here on occasion.  I was simply rubbed the wrong way, and, to add insult, he's continued to try to insinuate that he knows more about the topic than myself...and then he added my rabbi to the mix...based on an article he read online.  My harshness has come from emotion, and may therefore seem childish, but I stand by my request that he do more research and my view that he is wrongly calling g-d Jehovah...and using mistranslated OT scripture to boot!

[Annella]

Okay....did I miss something?  I don't see where he attacked someone you love, and spread a falsehood.  I must have missed that.  I really have no idea what your referring to, unless it's your Rabbi?  

He said it was "possible" he (your Rabbi) could be passing down information that has been passed down from generation to generation as the Pharisees or Sadduces (spelled wrong), of old.  Unless he said something else more damaging, that is just a "debate" sentence.

Only pointing out that there are so many varied beliefs on here.  

I don't think I said he attacked someone I love...

Plus, I did not appreciate what he said about my rabbi, or his crack about using free websites.  Call me sensitive, but that was wrong.

I try to be conscientious about the varied beliefs on here, and I try not to get into any namecalling or mudslinging on here...although namecalling and mudslinging has happened on here on occasion.  I was simply rubbed the wrong way, and, to add insult, he's continued to try to insinuate that he knows more about the topic than myself...and then he added my rabbi to the mix...based on an article he read online.  My harshness has come from emotion, and may therefore seem childish, but I stand by my request that he do more research and my view that he is wrongly calling g-d Jehovah...and using mistranslated OT scripture to boot!

Sorry, "attacking" was my word.  Spreading a falsehood is attacking someone's character (to me).  Like I said before, I understand the irritation.  We all get emotional when we are talking about something that is "life" to us. I hate it more than anything when someone takes the Name (or Title) of my LORD in vain.

Which in itself poses questions to what "name" we are talking about taking in vain.  I hate to hear "Jesus Christ" said in any way but PRAISE.  That irritates me, and makes me sick in my soul.

Sensitivity is one of our Character traits, and your welcome to be sensitive just as much as anybody else on here. Many on here get VERY sensitive.  Except me of course

[502mania]

You don't believe any of it, as your still "waiting" for your messiah to come.  This is the Jewish belief.

You know what is interesting about this, when I was 16 I had no idea people believed this...well God (a voice) told me that I was who Jesus claimed to be, I was infact the messiah,

a "voice"? wow, that marah carey song "obsessed" came into my head....."you're delusional, you're delusional, yeah, you losin' yo' mind".............. LMFAO

[amyrouse]

You don't believe any of it, as your still "waiting" for your messiah to come.  This is the Jewish belief.

You know what is interesting about this, when I was 16 I had no idea people believed this...well God (a voice) told me that I was who Jesus claimed to be, I was infact the messiah, and I was like wtf.

I never thought for one minute Jesus was a fake.

I also learned Christ is not Jesus last name, it is a title.

So I would be Elissa Christ. Or Christ Elissa.

Crazy huh... Can I ask a sincere question though for amy?!?

The Messiah you are waiting for does he do the second coming only or is he born into the world? Also is this messiah a man or women?

The Messiah is said to be a human being that would lead the world into an age of peace.  Judaism 101 is one of my favorite online resources, except they tend to lean more conservatively than I do (and most Reform Jews as well).  Here is a good resource on the Messiah: http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

[Annella]

You don't believe any of it, as your still "waiting" for your messiah to come.  This is the Jewish belief.

You know what is interesting about this, when I was 16 I had no idea people believed this...well God (a voice) told me that I was who Jesus claimed to be, I was infact the messiah, and I was like wtf.

I never thought for one minute Jesus was a fake.

I also learned Christ is not Jesus last name, it is a title.

So I would be Elissa Christ. Or Christ Elissa.

Crazy huh... Can I ask a sincere question though for amy?!?

The Messiah you are waiting for does he do the second coming only or is he born into the world? Also is this messiah a man or women?

The word "Christ" is not a last name Marieelissa.  It actually is defined as "Messiah" or "The anointed One".

[amyrouse]

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

Doesn't he do this in the Second Coming?

Some believe that.  But the scripture says that the Messiah will complete the goal within their lifetime...like the post you made prior to this one said.

But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach.

[Annella]

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

Doesn't he do this in the Second Coming?

Some believe that.  But the scripture says that the Messiah will complete the goal within their lifetime...like the post you made prior to this one said.

But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach.

The scriptures in your post make sense if weighed with the New Testament (Jesus) which the Jews denounce.  The foretelling of the Messiah in OT scriptures does point to Jesus as being the Messiah if you take into account the NT also.

[teflonfanatic]

1 It has to do with the argument because hallelujah has at least an abbreviation of god's name which doesn't translate to LORD or I AM

2. I'm sorry that I get my education for free and don't pay for it, so I get the best links I can find that are free

3. How do you make a name known if his name is unknown?

4. I have nothing against your Rabbi, in fact I feel your Rabbi knows most of the law in the hebrew bible, HOWEVER, it's possible he is passing down the same things the Pharisees or shadduces taught, they were rabbi's, well versed, most likely accredited and jewish.

5. I never said that JW's didn't get anything wrong or are infallible. I studied the errors of the JW's and I studied the errors of various denominations, in my personal ressearch the JW's had less errors.

Exodus 3:15 reads in NWT, ASV, Young's literal, EMphattic Diaglott, and New Jerusalem reads

15 Then God said once more to Moses:

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.


In light of hallelujah or alleluia meaning praise Yah or Jah, is it wise to replace the name with LORD or I AM or any other title? 

Here's a video from an APOSTATE or JW heretic kinda different from falconor though.

I also posted four free links when doing my research.  I can post more if you would like.

Who is wanting to make g-d's name known?  The fact is, it is unknown.  I've shown that, through what my rabbi taught to me for free. 

I'm glad you have nothing against my rabbi.  He's a wonderful man, and one of the most intelligent people I've ever had the privilege of speaking with and learning from.  He has encouraged me to be open and accepting, and, even though I fall short, I try.  You insinuating that my rabbi, though, has passed on false information, is astounding.  He began attending rabbinical school at the age of 30...and before that, he practiced law.  As a part of his religious studies, he spent a year in Israel, and four years at seminary and is currently a teacher at the very same seminary.  He has the study behind him...as he has never quit studying.  He has the intelligence behind him.  He has the title behind him.  Who are you?  A random person I met on a forum who is accusing clergy of not knowing their religion.  Nice to meet you, Bible expert...oh, and Hebrew expert, as well, I almost forgot.

Forgive me for being harsh...but your crack against my rabbi was out of line.  He is my family, and I love him dearly, almost as much as I love my husband and g-d (not my daughter, though...I love no one, including g-d, more than my daughter.).  But then again, in all fairness, maybe the crack wasn't aimed solely at my rabbi...he's just an innocent teaching what those Jews have taught through the years.   

What have you shown, other than a yahoo document?  I have broken down my argument piece by piece and posted four websites backing me up.  You have said only that there were vowels and posted a yahoo document that does not delve into the origin of the name Jehovah. 

But while we're speaking of the origin of hallelujah...it comes from hallel, which is a grouping of verse...Psalms 113-118 to be exact.  Notice...even in a translation, Jehovah is never referenced to as g-d's name, only praise to the lord. If you understood how to read Hebrew a little...I'd show you exactly where in the Hebrew you are wrong here.  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt26b3.htm

And...here is Exodus 3:15...again, referencing the Lord: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0203.htm  I suggest you check your translation...that isn't going to fly over here.

Now...what the articles I've posted have said is that the origin of Jehovah being the name of g-d has come from the Masoretic texts and from Catholicism.  Have you scanned them?  I took the time to click your link.

And...I have researched this through free websites and the power of logic...please don't bring up the "not paying for education" remark again, because it was uncalled for. 

And...as for the JW's having less errors...I feel that is a topic Falconer is more suited to debate.  But, for you to insinuate the JW's have it right while the Jews are wrong...I need to stop right there, before I say anything else that will make me regret replying to you.

1.Srry that was NT, disregrad that.


2. The not an Expert at hebrew thing is quite comical, I never made such a claim and no one knows how the original hebrew language was pronounced or used. The language got changed after the tower of babel??!!!  The languages of the bible we study now are not the original versions of the languages, it does help to get someone who went to theologian school(yes the JW's have some too) or open up the e-sword program, or just plain look up some words and what they mean in greek or hebrew(to the best of our knowledge).

3. I'm going to take some time off to read your links. Especially since the hallelujah parallel with Exodus 3:15 was deflected so easily 0_0

4. I personally found that out for MYSELF(unforunately it could be different for someone else) by comparing various religions to the six traits of babylon and how much it contradicts itself.

[amyrouse]

1.Srry that was NT, disregrad that.

2. The not an Expert at hebrew thing is quite comical, I never made such a claim and no one knows how the original hebrew language was pronounced or used. The language got changed after the tower of babel??!!!  The languages of the bible we study now are not the original versions of the languages, it does help to get someone who went to theologian school(yes the JW's have some too) or open up the e-sword program, or just plain look up some words and what they mean in greek or hebrew(to the best of our knowledge).

3. I'm going to take some time off to read your links. Especially since the hallelujah parallel with Exodus 3:15 was deflected so easily 0_0

4. I personally found that out for MYSELF(unforunately it could be different for someone else) by comparing various religions to the six traits of babylon and how much it contradicts itself.

What was NT?  Exodus is the second book of the Torah...Moses is as Jewish as you can get. 

I never suggested the JW's didn't go to school for their theology...and if you want to just "plain look up some words" then I've given you the Hebrew in my links.  I can also break it down for you if you would like...since I know enough Hebrew to read it and point out the words we use to call upon g-d.

[teflonfanatic]

1.Srry that was NT, disregrad that.

2. The not an Expert at hebrew thing is quite comical, I never made such a claim and no one knows how the original hebrew language was pronounced or used. The language got changed after the tower of babel??!!!  The languages of the bible we study now are not the original versions of the languages, it does help to get someone who went to theologian school(yes the JW's have some too) or open up the e-sword program, or just plain look up some words and what they mean in greek or hebrew(to the best of our knowledge).

3. I'm going to take some time off to read your links. Especially since the hallelujah parallel with Exodus 3:15 was deflected so easily 0_0

4. I personally found that out for MYSELF(unforunately it could be different for someone else) by comparing various religions to the six traits of babylon and how much it contradicts itself.

What was NT?  Exodus is the second book of the Torah...Moses is as Jewish as you can get. 

I never suggested the JW's didn't go to school for their theology...and if you want to just "plain look up some words" then I've given you the Hebrew in my links.  I can also break it down for you if you would like...since I know enough Hebrew to read it and point out the words we use to call upon g-d.

Making God's name known is NT  btw do you know how to stop the post window from jumping!!!!!

[amyrouse]

1.Srry that was NT, disregrad that.

2. The not an Expert at hebrew thing is quite comical, I never made such a claim and no one knows how the original hebrew language was pronounced or used. The language got changed after the tower of babel??!!!  The languages of the bible we study now are not the original versions of the languages, it does help to get someone who went to theologian school(yes the JW's have some too) or open up the e-sword program, or just plain look up some words and what they mean in greek or hebrew(to the best of our knowledge).

3. I'm going to take some time off to read your links. Especially since the hallelujah parallel with Exodus 3:15 was deflected so easily 0_0

4. I personally found that out for MYSELF(unforunately it could be different for someone else) by comparing various religions to the six traits of babylon and how much it contradicts itself.

What was NT?  Exodus is the second book of the Torah...Moses is as Jewish as you can get. 

I never suggested the JW's didn't go to school for their theology...and if you want to just "plain look up some words" then I've given you the Hebrew in my links.  I can also break it down for you if you would like...since I know enough Hebrew to read it and point out the words we use to call upon g-d.

Making God's name known is NT  btw do you know how to stop the post window from jumping!!!!!

Never had my post window jump on me...sorry.